Post with a video of a cromotor over 100 mph

[DAND214]

I'm there.
What kinda popcorn, buttered?

Dan

 

[Dark Knight]

Uhhmm...didn't this movie start with something about cromotor and 100mph...the plot seems to have moved on *chews popcorn and scratches head*.
He'll - I'm comfy in this chair - I'll watch this to the end anyways...

 

[liveforphysics]

John's hubmotors are not like anything you guys have seen before.

Think on scale with Vetrix size/power hubmotors.

His smaller motors were easily twice a cromotor. His dimensions on the stator of his new stuff is like more than 3 cromotors in 1 hubmotor.

I was doing 80mph on his old bikes with half the size motor and running on 20s. His new setup is easily double the power, it would be a shock to me if he wasn't over 100mph.

If you guys want a 100mph silent reliable ebike, I would choose his hubmotors over any others I've seen.

 

[MadRhino]

...If you guys want a 100mph silent reliable ebike, I would choose his hubmotors over any others I've seen.

I have no doubt about that, and I will be glad to build a bike with this motor as soon as it is available with a flange to lace a wheel. Then, I worry a bit about how it would behave in a 25" OD wheel. It might be too fast for that, making it very hard on controllers.

it is not everyone who is willing to ride on a scooter size wheel, no matter how better it is for torque and efficiency, if the terrain is not proper for that. I find a 24" rear wheel a big compromise already, and I would be happy to build all my bikes with the largest DH racing wheels if hub motors were up to the task.

 

[Kent]

...If you guys want a 100mph silent reliable ebike, I would choose his hubmotors over any others I've seen.

I have no doubt about that, and I will be glad to build a bike with this motor as soon as it is available with a flange to lace a wheel. Then, I worry a bit about how it would behave in a 25" OD wheel. It might be too fast for that, making it very hard on controllers.

it is not everyone who is willing to ride on a scooter size wheel, no matter how better it is for torque and efficiency, if the terrain is not proper for that. I find a 24" rear wheel a big compromise already, and I would be happy to build all my bikes with the largest DH racing wheels if hub motors were up to the task.

I tend to agree. Overlooking the technical aspects, I find that it looks too funky and for me unappealing. John, you have a potential goldmine there if you could offer an adapter flange so as to mount to a normal spoked wheel that would fit in regular dropouts.

 

[Kent]

...If you guys want a 100mph silent reliable ebike, I would choose his hubmotors over any others I've seen.

I have no doubt about that, and I will be glad to build a bike with this motor as soon as it is available with a flange to lace a wheel. Then, I worry a bit about how it would behave in a 25" OD wheel. It might be too fast for that, making it very hard on controllers.

it is not everyone who is willing to ride on a scooter size wheel, no matter how better it is for torque and efficiency, if the terrain is not proper for that. I find a 24" rear wheel a big compromise already, and I would be happy to build all my bikes with the largest DH racing wheels if hub motors were up to the task.

I tend to agree. Overlooking the technical aspects, I find that it looks too funky and for me unappealing. John, you have a potential goldmine there if you could offer an adapter flange so as to mount to a normal spoked wheel that would fit in regular dropouts.

 

[jansevr]

interesting thread here :lol:

on the topic of a cromotor - i think 100mph is possible but only if aerodynamics are taken into account. i dont have time to find the links now but im sure some of you have seen the video of the top speed by a velomobile under pedal only power. i believe its around 80mph. also i remember seeing a 2 person velomobile (they rode back to back -one person facing forward, the other facing backwards) which i believe was able to achieve an even higher speed...i will need to find the links later. so if a cro motor was mounted as a mid-drive in a velomobile i think it would easily hit 100mph with relatively few other modifications.

on the topic of john's hubmonster - although i agree the video appears slower i don't doubt the fact of what this motor is capable of. especially on a lightweight bike compared to a scooter/motorcycle.

also i have managed to score one of johns motors used from a xm5000 moped off a user from the forum. its currently in transit but will probably be a while before i figure out a solution to mounting it on my bike

 

[bee]

This thread came at a good time, I just pulled my cromotor out of the closet and I'll be lacing it up.

Sounds like 24" downhill rim + 32S are a tested & proven combo?

Any recommendations for 24" rims?

I was hoping to do a 34S pack but just realized the 4115 Lyen controller only goes to 132V.

 

[999zip999]

That a boy- Bee
Plus I can't ride a clown bike for long.
Plus I like the kettle corn.

 

[Doctorbass]

I agree with Luke too, That kind of motor is sure capable of 100mph and probably the bike also did that, we don't know yet.. If I was able to go 70mph with a simple 5303 a scooter motor like thst can do that ! Like I said the video is absolutely not showing anything going more than 60-70mph.. maybe the bike did it but the video does not show that... John it's like you just choose the wrong clip to show that... that's all..

I appaulogize to ecologymagnet for the debate with popcorn.. May I suggest to go back to the original thread guys :wink:

Doc

 

[999zip999]

What's wrong Doctorbass the kernnels get caught in your teeth ? Every loves popcorn.

 

[Doctorbass]

What's wrong Doctorbass the kernnels get caught in your teeth ? Every loves popcorn.

lol :lol: in fact... I hate when kernnels get caught in my teeth

Doc

 

[ridethelightning]

What's wrong Doctorbass the kernnels get caught in your teeth ? Every loves popcorn.

lol :lol: in fact... I hate when kernnels get caught in my teeth

Doc

yeah that really sucks, almost enough to turn me off,

but i reckon its still a damn sight better than getting the road caught in your teeth going 100mph when your e-bike frakks out :lol:

 

[John in CR]

..Like I said the video is absolutely not showing anything going more than 60-70mph.. maybe the bike did it but the video does not show that... John it's like you just choose the wrong clip to show that... that's all..

Still calling me a liar, or at a minimum "maybe" a liar, eh? You should have quit while you were behind. No response about some of those X5's being free, so can we take your silence as confirmation? That would be quite telling info since you so unabashedly promoted them.

As you will see later, the video contains lots of useful speed info. Videos always look slower than actual, but looking at relative speeds after I started slowing down is leading you to incorrect conclusions. It's not surprising that your perception is that far off, since you're accustomed to slow kiddie ebikes.

I won't spend a bunch of time on it, and I may not be able to prove the full 107mph, but proving over 100mph should be simple. That's just 45m/s. 8)

John

 

[MadRhino]

Easy to show real speed with a video, but it has to be filmed with a still camera. Install the camera on a tripod, with a view of a road and a field wide enough to see 2 electric posts at least, then pass by WOT :wink:

When the camera is on the bike, it will never show a real impression of speed because perception is distorted by too many factors. For an example: Riding 40 on a single track mountain trail with trees close by on each side, camera mounted low on the bike, will look like it is 80. On the opposite, riding in open field with a camera mounted on the top of a helmet is looking like it's half the speed that you are doing.

 

[Doctorbass]

..Like I said the video is absolutely not showing anything going more than 60-70mph.. maybe the bike did it but the video does not show that... John it's like you just choose the wrong clip to show that... that's all..

Still calling me a liar, or at a minimum "maybe" a liar, eh? You should have quit while you were behind. No response about some of those X5's being free, so can we take your silence as confirmation? That would be quite telling info since you so unabashedly promoted them.

As you will see later, the video contains lots of useful speed info. Videos always look slower than actual, but looking at relative speeds after I started slowing down is leading you to incorrect conclusions. It's not surprising that your perception is that far off, since you're accustomed to slow kiddie ebikes.

I won't spend a bunch of time on it, and I may not be able to prove the full 107mph, C That's just 45m/s. 8)

John

John, i'm not saying at any place that you are a liar c'mon stop bugging me with that...
You know what I said, so stop distoring my statements..
I never got any X5 for free period ! I paid these full price less a discount Justin gave me because I sent him dozens of clients for ebike parts over the last years. If you wanted X5 for great price you just had to work for that and get discount or order large qty from Kenny that's it.

but proving over 100mph should be simple

just do it if it's so simple! 8) but take care to not crash. you might not make us to appear to be the BEST friends at the moments John but it doesn't change that I still wish you to stay alive trying that and be safe. No one want you to die by attempting to prove insane 100mph speed on a simple ebike....

Doc

 

[999zip999]

It get to be a safety factor. We are talking above ebike or frakenbikes. Pick up a peice scrap shit in your tire at speed now you are down to one wheel. This isn't for some central american chicken road. Do tell me I'm staring to sound like your wife.
I use to go 25mph on the beach and was happy, till Dogman gave me light. Now 12-15mph and I can check out the girls in bikinis and the waves.
So do this in a safe clean road or ?

 

[spisska]

It get to be a safety factor.

Not just for the rider either. A motorbike going 100 mph is making a hell of a lot of noise to keep that speed. A car is also making a hell of a noise -- from the relatively large area of tire on the road, the engine, and the amount of air being displaced by its enormous mass.

I have no idea what an ebike would sound like at 100 mph, but it wouldn't be anywhere near as loud as a car or motorcycle, and that makes it much more likely for someone to get in the way just because they don't know it's there.

That said, I've had a look at the video, and I can't see any one-second period where it looks like the bike is going anywhere near 45m. (100 mph=44.7 mps). Not that this isn't impressive speed, just that it isn't anywhere near adequate as evidence of >=100mph.

 

[John in CR]

From the video in question I could only prove a 99mph average over a segment. There just weren't clear road markings in the right places around where I know the top speed was. Peak speed had to be when I popped up a bit and let off the throttle when I saw that white patch on the road. I got back on the throttle after passing it, but didn't get settled into as good a tuck, and then let off the throttle and/or sat up before getting close to the green car. From the start the grade is slightly up hill until the peak just after the incomplete pedestrian bridge (as I pass the first cyclist), and then it is virtually flat.

Here are the measured distances from my starting point. I used the CA numbers, though I did check it against my Garmin, which was within 2m for the total distance reported by my CA on that day and confirmed today. Maybe someone else has video software to get more accurate times than I could, because I had to estimate the tenths of a second. Here are accurate distances from the starting pt of the video, and the average speed for that segment from my best estimate of the time on the video.
Start to under incomplete bridge 545m 121kph (76mph) not a bad avg from near zero
Point of first white arrow on road 607m 159kph (99mph) peak speed had to be just after this point
Start of solid white for exit lane 754m 143kph (89mph)
Point of 2nd white arrow 800m 110kph (69mph)
Middle of bridge b4 3 peds 975m 143kph (89mph)
Point of 3rd arrow 1185m 130kph (81mph)
Stop at end 1591m in 61seconds 93.9kph avg speed for the ride...agrees with CA

Note that 1/4 mile is just after I pass the white car about 20m before the green sign to Orotina, about the 12 second mark. Even adding a full second for the start not on video that's over 6 seconds better than Doc could muster. Not bad since my bike isn't tuned for hard starts, and I weigh over 40kg more than Doc.

Doc, when I state what I know to be fact, that my ebike hit 107mph, including a video of the event, and you say "the video is absolutely not showing anything going more than 60-70mph", it's calling me a liar pure and simple. Even if you didn't mean it the way it came out multiple times, you shouldn't have been so adamant, because now that I posted measured distances your "...absolutely not...more than 60-70mph..." is foolish.

I'll do a better videoed run soon. My bike is less aerodynamic right now, so I have to make some tweaks, and I obviously want to better my 172kph. Why would I try to tie my own best? It's now easier to make a run, because I'm not scared to death of the bicycle tire on front. I only made 3 WOT on the flat runs in total on that Kenda bike tire. Many in the area know me, and the transit police do patrol that stretch often. I really don't want them to get a glimpse of me on a top speed run, so I have to be careful. Plus too much wind or too much traffic throws wrenches into speed run plans at least 2/3rds of the time.

John

PS- If anyone needs a better description of the distance points I measured today, let me know. Now that I know the peak speed was right around that first arrow, I'll probably go back and get 2 other distance points, the 40kph yellow caution sign for the offramp speed between 16.9 and 17 seconds in, as well as the green road sign at 18.8-18.9 seconds. If anyone can get precise times for those 2 as well as the point of the first arrow, then we should be able to get a more precise peak speed using a point-to-point average from the video.

 

[Joseph C.]

Well this thread has taken a twist or two. :lol:

I was fully expecting John and Doc to start punching each other through their monitors.

Then it all got disappointingly dull and reasonable. Although one paragraph indicates their may be hope yet.

What can we do to fan the flames?

The video doesn't really show the true speed but that's certainly no reason to risk life and limb putting back on bicycle rims that you know to be dodgy. If you make another video so what if you are just a few kph slower with the proper wheel. Most of us here can take into account the effects changing the wheel set-up will have on the bike's performance.

Now back to the business at hand. If you could aim for this level of quality insulting I shall put the kettle on.

[youtube]CuBFAp6EmnY[/youtube]

 

[ridethelightning]

It get to be a safety factor.

Not just for the rider either. A motorbike going 100 mph is making a hell of a lot of noise to keep that speed. A car is also making a hell of a noise -- from the relatively large area of tire on the road, the engine, and the amount of air being displaced by its enormous mass.

I have no idea what an ebike would sound like at 100 mph, but it wouldn't be anywhere near as loud as a car or motorcycle, and that makes it much more likely for someone to get in the way just because they don't know it's there.

That said, I've had a look at the video, and I can't see any one-second period where it looks like the bike is going anywhere near 45m. (100 mph=44.7 mps). Not that this isn't impressive speed, just that it isn't anywhere near adequate as evidence of >=100mph.

+1
with the adaptto controller especially.

my experience is that there is no increase in noise with speed, just louder wooshing in your ears.
motor is completely silent.

iv only ever been game to go 70kph or so though. iv got a little kid

 

[John in CR]

The video doesn't really show the true speed but that's certainly no reason to risk life and limb putting back on bicycle rims that you know to be dodgy. If you make another video so what if you are just a few kph slower with the proper wheel. Most of us here can take into account the effects changing the wheel set-up will have on the bike's performance.

AFAIC I don't have anything to prove, so I'm not going to the trouble except to improve. If it falls short of my goal, I'll still share the better quality result. It's possible that just the stiffer voltage of my 65-130c pack itching to go on this weekend, combined with a tail cone for the square rear of my pair of big 24fet controllers, narrower bars, a better focus on body position, and little things like charging to 4.2V/cell, extra air in the tires, etc will be enough to get me to 180kph. I did get to 170 the other day, though I think that was wind aided.

Keep in mind that the blame for all the crap about the 172kph (107mph) run was whatever had been spilled on the road earlier that week. There I am 18-19 seconds into my run with plenty of room to hold WOT another 20-30 seconds, and I'm WTF is covering the road ahead? , so of course my head pops up and I let off the throttle. Had the road been clear, then we would have had lots of relative speed references at over 100 instead of just the instantaneous peak speed. By the time I get back on it, it's really too late because the green car may be too close to the truck for a pass without splitting them, and after that it becomes a downhill grade anyway. I won't know what the top speed of my bike is for any specific configuration until I hold WOT for at least 30-40 seconds on a flat road, something I've never done. 8)

John

PS- I still want to race DrBass. My cargo bike can probably outrun his Chevy Volt, but I want to race my Cannondale against his homemade Zero in some kind of live dual podcast race.

 

[t3sla]

You talk about being silent while having the crown (fastest bike)
But think about how much better it was the Dr Bass was vocal and outward with his accomplishment.
The culture of ebikes moved forward as we had a likable communicative individual to draw new people in and be excited by bikes.
So how much better it would have been to have a competitive spirit whilst engineering for the top spot.

Before you get all high and mighty don't forget we're mostly plugging and playing things that were 'made in china', so believe me when I say you weren't the first.

As for a 100mph runs, we need more of that.
Everyone loves to aspire to own a Ferrari, but few ever will.

 

[ridethelightning]

id take 50 ebikes over one ferrari. 8)

 

[Dauntless]

I'll just say in honor of DoctorBass, a kewl head in difficult times - and leave it at that.

[youtube]PSH0eRKq1lE[/youtube]