The new Qute Q100H motor

[Sunder]

Just thought I'd give my feedback, having gone for my first ride with the Q100H.

1. It's slightly louder, though the sound is higher pitched than the original Q100. This could change as soon as I've done 50-100km on it though, as my last Q100 also quietened down after a few kms.

2. It is definitely more torquey up a 12-19% grade than my 328rpm Q100 - though that should be obvious as it's a lower speed wind. It's been too long to make a comment comparing it with my 206rpm Q100, but I actually suspect it may have more torque than that too. It just felt like a very minor slow down up the hill, as opposed to "I'd better pedal or I'll overheat the motor" in my previous Q100 builds.

3. The insides from the Q100H slot perfectly into the casing for the Q100. No need to lace a new one into your wheels. The gears look the same as well, but I haven't changed the rings or anything to see if the still mesh. It could be moderately larger, but by eyeball, it isn't.

Knowing I can change the insides in less than 10 minutes now, I'm tempted to keep this running at 1kw, rather than go the 800w Sine Wave controller I just bought. I'm tempted to see if it lasts longer than the 5-6 months my previous Q100s survived on 1kw.

 

[motomech]

Intersting. Thanks for the update.

 

[toniovelo]

Good review Sunder , thanks a lot!

I've since few days the old Q100 201 rpm 36v @ 48v and it's very good solution. But' i want more max speed (actually 35 km/h) and i can't change my 48v battery.

So, my target is the Q100H 36v 260 rpm @48v. I think i can win little more torque and get 40 km/h. And, at 48v with 16A controller, ithink it's nice!

Or, other solution, Steven of Elifebike confirm me that Q100 in his shop are in 260 rpm??? True??? (because i've 2 Q100, the 201 rpm is 230 rpm and 328 rpm is really 328 rpm from bms battery) http://www.elifebike.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2011-43-GRTP.234JT

 

[neptronix]

Thanks for the info. Yeah, i think the reduction ratio is higher for the Q100H. I'd really love to see a video of how it performs if you have a moment.

 

[Sunder]

Thanks for the info. Yeah, i think the reduction ratio is higher for the Q100H. I'd really love to see a video of how it performs if you have a moment.

I'm interstate from tomorrow for a few days, and I have no idea where my bike mounted video camera is, but I'll see what I can do...

 

[Sunder]

Screw it. I'm done with the Q100 series for my power output. I'm sure they're great to 350W, and I'll come back to them for other builds, but for carrying me, my son and my laptop (Total weight 95kg), this isn't the motor for me, as much as I thought I could push the bounds.

Even at 800W (Which I suspect wasn't 800W), the clutch only lasted 30km. But daaaaamn, were they a good 30km. Barely slowed down on hills just with the mildest of pedaling. I swear I was doing high 30s up a 12-15% grade hill. If this motor came with a strengthened clutch, or had a way for us to strengthen them ourselves, this would be an absolutely amazing motor.

On a semi-related note though, can anyone riddle me this:

How is this an 800W controller?

http://www.bmsbattery.com/controller/667-s06-250w-imitation-torque-square-wave-controller.html

35Amps at 36 or 48 volts. To be a 800W controller, you'd need to use a 24V battery - and even then at full charge you're over 800W.

Placed an order for a Mac 8T laced into an Alexrim D19 from EM3EV. Can't wait for it to arrive. I'll be running 25mm Continental GP4000s, and changing to aero bars (on a hybrid) to get better aerodynamics. It should kick ass for high speed riding.

 

[d8veh]

It's 800w continuous. You can run it at 17 amps all day, and it won't heat up. Controllers are normally rated at half their maximum amps.
A MAC is normally rated at 500w.

 

[Sunder]

It's 800w continuous. You can run it at 17 amps all day, and it won't heat up. Controllers are normally rated at half their maximum amps.
A MAC is normally rated at 500w.

So will this controller be too big for the Mac? The Mac is advertised at 500w to 1000w.

 

[fellow]

Sunder: Thank you for the update about clutch problems. When you say 800w, was it at 36V or 48V, or something else? What amps? I guess I'm already pushing my luck at 13s Lipo (55V fully charged, 45V empty) and 14A. I really hope the ATF oil will do its magic, making the clutch last. This means I have to abandon my 1kw plans for Q100H, and order Q128H for my next project. What are our options for sub 3kg internally geared hubs over 1kw?

 

[Sunder]

Sunder: Thank you for the update about clutch problems. When you say 800w, was it at 36V or 48V, or something else? What amps? I guess I'm already pushing my luck at 13s Lipo (55V fully charged, 45V empty) and 14A. I really hope the ATF oil will do its magic, making the clutch last. This means I have to abandon my 1kw plans for Q100H, and order Q128H for my next project.

12S Lipo, so 50v off the charger, 46v at the end of the ride.

I hadn't got my amp meter up, so I don't know the real amps, but the controller above was the controller I used.

 

[fellow]

Both of my S06s series controllers are rated 14A(+-1A), and measured under 14A IRL (13.5A something, the other one less than that). If following the same logic your S12S gives 21.5A. That's P_in=1kW at 12s lipo. P_out_aprox=750w at 75% efficiency. I wonder if the Q128H can take much more than that?

 

[Sunder]

Both of my S06s series controllers are rated 14A(+-1A), and measured under 14A IRL (13.5A something, the other one less than that). If following the same logic your S12S gives 21.5A. That's P_in=1kW at 12s lipo. P_out_aprox=750w at 75% efficiency. I wonder if the Q128H can take much more than that?

Sorry, I've missed the logic there... The specs on this controller was 35A. How did you arrive at 21.5?

 

[d8veh]

It's 800w continuous. You can run it at 17 amps all day, and it won't heat up. Controllers are normally rated at half their maximum amps.
A MAC is normally rated at 500w.

So will this controller be too big for the Mac? The Mac is advertised at 500w to 1000w.

It'll be perfect for the MAC

 

[fellow]

Both of my S06s series controllers are rated 14A(+-1A), and measured under 14A IRL (13.5A something, the other one less than that). If following the same logic your S12S gives 21.5A. That's P_in=1kW at 12s lipo. P_out_aprox=750w at 75% efficiency. I wonder if the Q128H can take much more than that?

Sorry, I've missed the logic there... The specs on this controller was 35A. How did you arrive at 21.5?

Your logic is right, I assumed there was only one s12s version (the 500w one). I see now that there is 500w (23A+-1) and 800w (35+-1)version. If I understand it correctly, you've used Q100H at 34A and 48V? That gives P_in=1,6kw and P_out<1,2Kw at 75% efficiency (efficiency is probably less IRL at those power levels). I'm very interested in what P_out_max of an average Q100H and Q128H is.

Mac 500w/1000W looks promising, but its 4.3kg. Are there any other internally geared motors in this 1Kw+ class worth looking at?

 

[amigafan2003]

Mac 500w/1000W looks promising, but its 4.3kg. Are there any other internally geared motors in this 1Kw+ class worth looking at?

Bafang BPM - but it's about the same weight.

 

[Sunder]

It'll be perfect for the MAC

Thanks mate. I'm still sorting out odds and ends with Paul, but I am so looking forward to this motor arriving.

Mac 500w/1000W looks promising, but its 4.3kg. Are there any other internally geared motors in this 1Kw+ class worth looking at?

Bafang SWX? is somewhere between the two at 3kg. I was tempted to try this one out instead of the more expensive and bigger/heavier MAC, since there are people running them at 1.5kw long term, but the speed wasn't quite right for me (200 or 260rpm only. I wanted a 320ish rpm motor).

And also, I feel I'm over the "trying things out" phase. I've had some great times experimenting with ebikes, but now they're not just a nice way to get to work anymore. They're central to getting around these days. If the MAC 8T is the most reliable motor for me, with easy to get replacement parts, then I'm not going spare to the expense.

 

[neptronix]

My MAC 8T has been a great workhorse for me. I have flogged the hell out of it with periods of 2,600w and a very short period of 4,000w and it lived to tell the tale.

If you have a large wheel, i wouldn't use anything else.

If you have a small wheel, the bafang BPM is the best choice.

If weight is an issue, i really think the Q128H being rated at 800W is really worth exploring on stupidly high volts. They said they'd produce a 260rpm version a while ago ... and haven't...

 

[Ykick]

I've gotta 201 RPM Q128H running Lyen 6FET on 16S RC Lipo and I see about 280 RPM hot off the charger 66V. Peaks 1200W but the controller pulls back to around 800W in just a few seconds of WOT.

No point of reference as this is my 1st geared hub of any variety but it has a lot of torque. So much in fact I'm probably gonna reprogram the controller to reduce throttle twitchiness.

Quite pleased with the performance from such a small, lightweight package. Durability is the final question/concern....

 

[neptronix]

Yay! finally someone who tested the darn thing!

Any chance of throwing some higher voltage at it?

 

[Ykick]

I'll post more in my 700c build thread (if you can call it that?) I don't wanna clutter this Q100H thread when I'm dealing with the Q128H.

The short story is I might be limited to 18S - 72V hot but will give it a try in a few days. Edward mentioned something about this controller using a FET (3077?) that doesn't survive much more than 72V, IIRC?

More in my 700c roadie thread...

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49889&hilit=+q128h

 

[fellow]

Ykick: 68V mosfets didn't survive 24 hours at 55V on Q100H when I've tested my 2 controllers. IRFB3077pbf mosfets are 75V rated (=50V battery votage is already close to its limits and there is no safety margin). Add a little voltage spikes/noise from the high revving Q128H (its gearing is 13.2) and it will die on flat terrain. One option is to change the mosfets to 150V ones, if the controller LVC support your 72V+ voltage. Frankenstein S06S supports 40V LVC, maybe even higher LVC (Frankenstein=change its mosfets and capacitors). Never tested higher voltage than 55V on them, but it's worth a try.

 

[Sunder]

It seems I may have unfairly maligned the Q100H.

Seeing another thread that a loose hall wire can sound like a broken clutch, I decided to redo all my wiring while waiting for my Mac 8T kit.

Works like a charm. I'll see if I can get a video of me riding it as someone's request above. Unfortunately, I don't have an easily bike mountable camera, just a full video camera. Not sure how I'm going to do this, but I'll try.

 

[d8veh]

Are you using that 35 amp controller. That's much too much for a Q100. At 48v, 20 amps is pushing it!

 

[Sunder]

Are you using that 35 amp controller. That's much too much for a Q100. At 48v, 20 amps is pushing it!

That 35a controller can't be 35a for more than a few milliseconds, because my 25a fuse hasn't blown yet...

On the other hand, I don't think it's 800w either. It's way too fast for that.

Not sure waht it is.

 

[toniovelo]

Are you using that 35 amp controller. That's much too much for a Q100. At 48v, 20 amps is pushing it!

The max amps for the q100 (for no burning it) is 18A i see, no???