Alan B
100 GW
I would add one more cell and make it certain instead of that close. Hopefully that won't create a space problem.
60 volt vs 72 volt
- Thread starter E-HP
- Start date
how about checking out ERT? btw, i know you dont want to buy a new motor but looking at this modded CYC X1 Pro by ERT. He was hitting 45mph at like 2.5kW, 50mph at ~3.1kW that is some crazy efficiency.
https://electricrt.com/e-r-t-12-mosfet-3000w-sinewave-controller/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUHUDEtQqjU&t=0s
https://electricrt.com/e-r-t-12-mosfet-3000w-sinewave-controller/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUHUDEtQqjU&t=0s
bakaneko said:
Thanks. I know I may pick up a couple of mph from going to 60v, but not really interested in a speed increase. Ultimately rebuilding my existing triangle pack with GA cells should give me all the performance I want from my current bike; but the piggy back pack should bridge me until then.
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Alan B
100 GW
I have some big triangle batteries, they are pretty heavy. Sometimes I think I'd be better off with some smaller batteries and parallel range extenders. Like the Luna Mighty Mini. If I have a 6ah mini and a 14 ah shark then I can have 6, 14 or 20 ah for the trip, and minimize weight. Configurable.
Alan B said:
Actually my current pack is 14S8P, so 112 cells, supposedly 2500, or 1008 Wh. I can go straight to 16S7P for the same number of cells with the Sanyo cells @3450, and that would 1391 Wh, a 38% increase in energy, but same weight. I could go 16S6P, so 96 cells, saving 16% in weight, but still an 18% increase (1192 Wh) in energy.
UPP sells the same pack with the smaller number of cells, and options for the higher number of cells, but not with the Sanyos. Not sure why. Could it be a heat thing, since it's a hard case? Maybe the BMS is bigger?
Alan B
100 GW
I put 18S 32AH on the Borg. Weighs about 24 pounds. Lipo. 2.1kWH And I have a range extender pack that I occasionally carried that adds 8 amp hours more bringing it to 2.6 kWH. I've got some 16AH lipos that I could use instead for 3.2 kWH. Depending on speed the range could be 100 miles or more. But the weight makes the bike less fun. And it rarely is needed. So what's the point? I carried the 2.1 kWH configuration for a group ride that I led. We ended up going quite a distance because I started from home, picked up the group 10 miles away at BART, went on the ride, to lunch, then back home. But the group had a leisurely pace and my energy efficiency was much higher than usual and I didn't use much of it. Now that was a good day to carry extra range, and I would again, but I certainly would not want that weight all the time.
The Luna Mini can be run by itself. That makes a really light fun bike for shorter trips. Remove 15 pound battery and run with a 3 pound battery. Refreshing, great for going to lunch, the post office, UPS, quick grocery runs. Like an airplane, carry fuel for the trip, not for the week.
Flexibility is nice. Also being able to use the batteries on different bikes is nice. I'm standardizing on 14S as much as I can. I do have one bike that needs higher voltage due to the low Kv motors it has, but the newer bikes do fine on 14S. More choices in 14S packs, and especially more choices in smaller 14S packs with more variety of mounting systems. The EGO tool batteries are 14S, as are some other tool batteries. Lots of options. As you go up in voltage the choices diminish rapidly, and the BMS's get pricey.
Parallel is better than series for range. Increasing the voltage will make the throttle less precise and the response more twitchy (and almost always less efficient). Removing the extra series pack will mess up LVC settings.
It is of course your choice. I've been there and am heading the other way now. All my new builds are 14S these days. The real motivation for voltage is generally speed, but even that can be sidestepped to some degree with Field Weakening.
Lots of choices,
The Luna Mini can be run by itself. That makes a really light fun bike for shorter trips. Remove 15 pound battery and run with a 3 pound battery. Refreshing, great for going to lunch, the post office, UPS, quick grocery runs. Like an airplane, carry fuel for the trip, not for the week.
Flexibility is nice. Also being able to use the batteries on different bikes is nice. I'm standardizing on 14S as much as I can. I do have one bike that needs higher voltage due to the low Kv motors it has, but the newer bikes do fine on 14S. More choices in 14S packs, and especially more choices in smaller 14S packs with more variety of mounting systems. The EGO tool batteries are 14S, as are some other tool batteries. Lots of options. As you go up in voltage the choices diminish rapidly, and the BMS's get pricey.
Parallel is better than series for range. Increasing the voltage will make the throttle less precise and the response more twitchy (and almost always less efficient). Removing the extra series pack will mess up LVC settings.
It is of course your choice. I've been there and am heading the other way now. All my new builds are 14S these days. The real motivation for voltage is generally speed, but even that can be sidestepped to some degree with Field Weakening.
Lots of choices,
Alan B
100 GW
I have a 150V 18 FET Lyen controller I should sell, if you really want to jump up.
No, keeping your money, never delivering the goods, never telling the truth about availability, zero support before nor after sales, complete radio silence for months at a time.
No one would accept not matter how great the product advertised.
Fortunately we can just order direct, and our expectations from the asian vendors are realistically low.
Hopefully some other north american middleman serious about running a business will step up, carry inventory and make a ton of money charging for customization, design and consulting services.
No one would accept not matter how great the product advertised.
Fortunately we can just order direct, and our expectations from the asian vendors are realistically low.
Hopefully some other north american middleman serious about running a business will step up, carry inventory and make a ton of money charging for customization, design and consulting services.
thundercamel
10 kW
I for one like pushing the limits, and think your 6P 20.7Ah of GA cells is enough headroom over the supposed 20Ah of the chinese pack. Either way, I'll be entertained to see what direction you go with your bike 
electric_nz
1 kW
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2019
- Messages
- 308
Looks like Luna cycle is now making a 72V version of their adjustable 1-5 Amp, 80-100% charger. I have had good luck with the older 52V version. Also generic 20S BMS seem to be more readily available now.
st35326
1 kW
st35326
1 kW
john61ct said:
Not sure how old the firmware would need to be...I literally bought this last month to replace the one I sold with one of my bikes. The 2 year old one I gave to the buyer did the same exact thing though. Just relaying my experience.YMMV
Alan B
100 GW
Firmware is updateable in the Satiator.
They allow lower voltage charging in the firmware, but they don't recommend it. The efficiency and max current is reduced at such a low output value compared to the lower voltage models.
They allow lower voltage charging in the firmware, but they don't recommend it. The efficiency and max current is reduced at such a low output value compared to the lower voltage models.
Aha thanks for the clarification.
Is their any chance going to such "below spec" target voltages (high amps) is overly stressful may risk earlier failure?
Otherwise as long as you know slower charge rate, off mains power inefficiency is NBD. . .
Is their any chance going to such "below spec" target voltages (high amps) is overly stressful may risk earlier failure?
Otherwise as long as you know slower charge rate, off mains power inefficiency is NBD. . .
Alan B
100 GW
The life of electronics is a pretty strong function of temperature, so running it hot is the primary life factor. The Satiator has temperature limiting, so it should protect itself, though it gets pretty warm so I usually try to reduce the current and provide good air circulation to minimize the heat rise.
E-HP said:Alan B said:
Well if it's for the benefit of the forum, then I'm all in!But seriously, I have no problem with the "at risk" part, since it's not about the money, but that it fits the theme of my economy build, so if I can get the features that I want economically, then I'm willing to give it a try. I'll do more research and if this is the best option (bang for the buck), I'll go for it. I'll keep the Phaserunner on my list for the next, non-econo bike though.
I bit the bullet and bought the unknown controller. This should give me the flexibility to experiment with different voltages so I know what will fit my needs best when it's time to replace the main pack. I'm now researching lipos and what I need to buy to get started with them, so we'll see where that leads.
Based on the dimensions listed, I may need to do some reconfiguration to get it to fit in the same place, or maybe mount it more forward and redo my connection box. The bluetooth module and other features should be fun to play with even at my same pack voltage :thumb: Weird that it delivers from China, but ebay still charged me tax
Alan B
100 GW
Great.
I gave some lipos to a friend, he isn't using them, perhaps I should see if he still wants them. Mostly 6S5AH Turnigy. What are you looking at using?
I gave some lipos to a friend, he isn't using them, perhaps I should see if he still wants them. Mostly 6S5AH Turnigy. What are you looking at using?
Not sure yet since I'm just starting to research. I think 2s and 6s would get me to 60v and 72v, so I guess a couple of combinations I guess. I think I'll spend while checking out the new controller and dialing it in, and by that time I'll have a better idea. :thumb:Alan B said:
Alan B
100 GW
I checked, he plans to use them so that didn't help.
I may have some other 6S that I should dispose of, not sure. They may not be a good fit for you, 25V full charge works for 25/50/75/100V but skips over some other desirable voltages. I also have a 14S balancing charger that I haven't used in awhile. Hard to find those anymore.
I may have some other 6S that I should dispose of, not sure. They may not be a good fit for you, 25V full charge works for 25/50/75/100V but skips over some other desirable voltages. I also have a 14S balancing charger that I haven't used in awhile. Hard to find those anymore.
