Advice on Complete New E-Bike Conversion? Please

[Musicman0003]

Hi Everybody,

First of all my name is Aaron, and I am Completely new to the world of Electric Biking. I am very interested in Building a Custom System for my existing Mountain Bike 26" wheels 21 Speed Shimano gear set.

I am pretty keen on a decent motor and have my eyes on one of the Crystalyte ones, say HT3525? I Travel to and from work which is about 16 kms or roughly (10 miles) each way. So a "total" of 30kms or (20miles) each day. On my way home I often do my shopping, and I can have a fair bit of weight on the back rack at times which slows me down and is quite difficult to pedal on my own so a decent electric motor setup would be quite handy if at all possible. lol.

Can anybody please advise me on a complete system to get me up and running? Bare in mind that I don't have much of an understanding of the mathematics of voltage and amperage. As I understand it at present, in general terms; volts equates to the top speed? and Amperage equates to the torque?

I'm under the impression that a torque motor would be better for my application hence my mentioning the HT3525 as I read some people are getting a little speed out of this motor anyway (up to 40mph i assume for short periods though)

-I read that an arrangement of the 5000mah Turnkey batteries are a Good choice?

-A lot of people are talking about the Lyen 12 FET 4110 MOSFET controllers?

-Last of all I am not an aggressive rider but I wouldn't mind a bit of grunt up my sleeve, something to cruise at about 15 - 20 mph most of the time with the ability to reach 28mph when required. Reliability is paramount though. I hope I have given enough information. :-/


Many Thanks to you all in advance

All the Best
Aaron

 

[mlt34]

Hey Aaron,

Welcome to the world of ebikes, as well as to endless sphere. I recommend that you update your profile with your location. This helps us recommend parts and other assistance that could be close to you.

As I understand it at present, in general terms; volts equates to the top speed? and Amperage equates to the torque?

You are sort of on the right track here. More volts does equal more speed, and more amps does equal more power, which in turn manifests itself in more applied torque. The main thing to think about when you start assembling an ebike kit is how the parts all balance. More amps = more power, but you need a battery that can supply that power and you need a motor that can handle that power. The crystalyte motor you are talking about is a very strong, good quality motor but its on the higher end of beginner motors, both based on power and price.

The RC lipo batteries are also not great for beginners because they have some pretty serious safety issues that aren't difficult to understand, but a small mistake by a beginner (or anyone) can have life and/or property-threatening consequences. Google Lipo house fire for examples.

20 mile range is definitely achievable, but the type and quantity of batteries you need will depend how fast you want to go. Since this is a commuter and grocery-getter bike, I think you are probably fine topping out at about 20 mph. If that's the case, something along the lines of a 9C motor or Bafang BPM on 36V should be good for you. If you want a little more oomph, speed and hill climbing ability you can go with a 48V pack. For example, my daily driver is a Q11 (9C clone) kit from BMSbattery.com with their 48V10AH li-ion battery. This gets me about 27 mph with a range of about 15 miles. When I ride at 20 mph, I can get over 20 miles. If you ran that motor on 36V 15AH, you'd get about 20 mph and around 20 mile range. 36V 20AH would bump you up closer to 27-28 mile range. You should know that the range estimate varies the most though, and is affected by things like rider weight, cargo weight, hill conditions, tire pressure, wind, etc etc.

So can you answer a few more questions for us such as your desired top speed, budget, how you'd like to mount batteries (rack versus inside the triangle) etc and we can provide some better examples of kits that would be appropriate for you.

Good luck!

 

[wesnewell]

Welcome to ES****Do this before your first post or now (it's retroactive)*****
Please go to the User Control Panel, select Profile, and then enter your city, state/province, and country into the Location field (country minimum) and save it. This will help people help you. Example: Wylie, TX, USA. Without knowing what country you are in it's hard to make any recommendations. Thank you.

The Ht3525 is designed for 25kph on 36V. Not a good choice if you want 38mph. Not knowing where you are is a hindrance in making any recommendation.

 

[parajared]

Turnigys are pretty good when they are not shooting flames and death at you. Plenty of people sucessfully use them in ebikes as well as rc planes cars ect... I think they are way better than lico, lifePo4, NiMH, and lead acid, because of how much power they offer compared to thier weight. Also they don't turn in to a paperweight if you get them cold (I am talking about you headway).

Wattage is the determining factor in how powerful your motor is, and how strong it is going to be when you hill climb (volts x amps). Motors are rated in rpm per volt, higher voltage= higher rpm. Amperage is the thing that will make all your wires roasty toasty. Since volts x amps = watts people who want higher wattage tend to run higher voltages to keep amperage low.

Motors like to overheat when run below 50% of their top speed. This is why they call the HT the "high torque." It actually doesn't have higher tourque, its just that you are less likely to bog down to below %50 on your low speed motor than the "HS" high speed motor. Ebikes.ca has a nice little simulator that demonstrates this, but basically top speed= 80% of your power going towards momentum and 20% heat; motor not spinning being fed power= space heater/destroyer of motors. It helped me greatly to add a temp. sensor gauge to my motor when I first got started to get a feel for this. TG3 temp sensor gauge rocks, don't mess with the hobby king crap.

Lyen's controllers have been best for me. I smoked my Hua Tong not too long ago, and have had generally bad luck with little off-brand 20a controllers. No failures with Lyen's controllers yet.

 

[arkmundi]

Ok, some advise: make a one time investment in highest quality motor & battery. You'll never regret that. Buy a kit, minus the battery, and then make your battery from high quality LiFePO4 cells. Its what I did, but don't follow my formula for success - instead, do the research and understand what you're buying first.

My current favorite hub motor kit: Falco e-Motors (at http://www.falcoemotors.com/).
My favorite LiFePO4 battery cell: still the A123 AMP20's (see A123 AMP20 Cells, new, legit, factory direct!.

That's all you need: research, understanding, a top quality hub motor sized to your particular needs, kit to match, a battery build from quality cells, and a bit of work putting it all together. Just my opinion, mind you. Best!

 

[Musicman0003]

Hi,

In response to your requests, I was thinking of the ability to do a realistic top speed of 45kms (28mph) as I wanted to have some speed up my sleeve for the times when I need it, however i don't think it will be possible given that i will be doing 15 - 20 mph most of the time in stop start traffic, and running a motor setup for higher speed at these lower speeds could damage and overheat it? I wouldn't like to spend much more than "$1000" preferable less as I would rather invest in a Good quality motor and skimp on the battery (range not quality necessarily) and update/ add to the battery range later as I can afford it. I would like the possibility of regenerative power/braking too if thats possible? I'd like to keep a 7 speed cassette on the back wheel too. I am flexible with battery pack locations, on the top of the rack itself, or in the triangle frame but in this case i will have to move the water bottle holder.

Crystalyte HS3540? Maybe

Hope this Helps!

 

[Musicman0003]

Hi Guys,

Just one more thing to consider, I Pedal most of the time anyway so this motor setup would be to assist me with the extra load I'm not expecting the motor to do all the work, all of the time I've decided that 40-45 kmh is a more realistic top speed for me.

BTW it doesn't show but I have actually stated Victoria Australia in my profile, but it seems to only show Victoria so sorry for that confusion people


Regards
Aaron

 

[mlt34]

Hi Guys,

Just one more thing to consider, I Pedal most of the time anyway so this motor setup would be to assist me with the extra load (I'm not expecting the motor to do all the work, all of the time) but also with a decent top speed say "60-65kmh" (even if it takes a little while to get up there) I'll be able to have a bit of fun with it every other day also!


Regards
Aaron

So far, there is no one ebike motor that is optimized to do all the things you have described that you want from it. The high speed and power is more along the lines of a crystalyte or 9C direct drive motor (without gears) and the fact that you want to still be able to pedal most of the time and only use the motor for 'assist' is in line with a smaller geared motor (bafang BPM, MAC, perhaps Q100 even). This is because direct drive motors provide a decent amount of resistance when you try to pedal. They aren't great for bikes that you want to pedal a lot without applying motor power.

Unfortunately, you'll likely have to make some compromises, especially if you want to limit it to $1000. This is still doable though.

If the speed and power is more important to you, the crystalyte Phoenix II kits from Electric Rider (electricrider.com) are what you need. A 4840 kit would be perfect, but it will be hard to stay under $1000 that way. Alternatively this Q11 kit would get you to about 25-27 mph and is much cheaper: http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-kits/529-q11-48v1kw-front-driving-hub-motor-e-bike-conversion-kit.html and you can pair it with a 48V15AH battery for not too much more money: http://www.bmsbattery.com/48v/248-48v-10ah-lithium-ion-electric-bicycle-battery-pack.html

If the pedaling ability is more important, I recommend a Bafang BPM. Try this one for a cheap source: http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-kits/348-bafang-350watts500watts-bpm-motor-e-bike-kit.html or this one:http://www.greenbikekit.com/index.php/bpm-48v-500w-100.html also paired with a 48V battery. Greenbikekit.com also has 48V batteries by headway.

That's what I'd recommend. I've used all of those parts I've listed above and they are all reliable and work great.

 

[wesnewell]

Assuming, that's Victoria Canada, and not Victoria TX or one of the many other cities with that name, talk to Gary here.
http://www.goldenmotor.ca/categories/E%252dBike-Kit/26-Inch/Rear/

 

[dogman dan]

IMO, you are pretty much on the right track in thinking a reasonably powerful dd motor. No problems with getting the basic job done with any choice you might make, fast motor or slow motor. The faster motor won't fry on you, it will just waste more of your unbelievably expensive battery purchase into heat, rather than range. Only on very very steep hills, or punishing towing loads , or just heaving excess watts at it, would the motor actually melt.

But I do think the slow motor will produce a nicer and more enjoyable ride for you, in stop and go situations. Since you are in AU, I will not particularly recommend the USA and Canada vendors. In China, EM3ev has a nice selection of both gearmotors and dd motors in both fast and slow versions.

I'd say pick 48 ish volts, and then select the motor that goes the speed you would like for your maximum. The typical 7 turn dd motor would hit just about 45 kph at 48v. It's not a fast motor or a slow one, it's the typical winding rpm in many kits.

If you were looking at packing huge loads in a trailer I'd recommend even slower windings, but the standard motor will haul loaded panniers with no problems.

Get a 15 ah lifepo4 or limn battery. Again EM3ev has good ones. RC batteries are a pain to fuss with on daily commutes.

If others recommend a vendor in country, bear in mind that the "typical kit" with a 20 amps controller will do what you need.