Anyone know about/tried TOSEVEN Mid Drive?

Griepje said:
Its the dm 02 its not that powerfull, I didn’t actually check what speed i get with full power and no speedlimits to the max. I’m quite certain that it delivers a little more power then the tsdz B from tongsheng. I hope it proves to be much more dureble though.
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I've been impressed with the power for the size and weight of the motor. It is easily a match for all motors I've used, and it leaves my TSDZ2 for dust. And it has helped me up hills to KoM status for e-bikes... and we have some pretty big hub-drives calling themselves e-bikes here. It is a nominated 500w motor after all. sure it can do more but it is rated for its comfort zone. If you don't have the programming wires, get them. The Firmware is constantly being updated, which is good, but a recent update created a glitch with the temp throttling. Not a problem if you're keeping the power below or down around the nominated 500 to 550w. If you're pushing it over 16 amps on a low cadence or throttle and it has the funky firmware you may hit a problem.
 
I've had a DM-01 from California ebikes for about a month now and I love the thing! I have the 1000w version running on a 60v battery. It's installed on a Surly Pugsley with a nice rack, panniers, trunk bag, Surly Moloko handbars and bag. I've mostly been using it to run to the store or pick up take out and it's amazing. It's winter now so it takes a bit for me to get dressed but once I do I can just pop on the thing and go.

Support from both Cali ebike and ToSeven themselves has been amazing. They're both great to work with, quick to respond, very helpful and fair. They have some dedicated channels on the High Voltage discord. Just seeing them interact with other customers and potential customers has been VERY encouraging. I have a ton of confidence in this product and based on what I've seen from the company, success is inevitable.

The firmware is still under development and, frankly, the current version is a step backwards. I'm actually part of a customer testing group providing feedback on the firmware so don't worry fam, I gotchu. Obviously they can always roll back that previous version and they're hard at work improving on the current one now. Based on the previous version though, it's smooth af and feels so natural, like I have bionic legs. I went bombing down this nice wide gravel train near me built on an old rail line so it's flat and and straight as can be. Full af. I've found that I really like cycling as a form of cardio and I love that I can pick my cadence and effort level and then decide how fast I want to go and smooth out some hills.

They've also been working with some folks trying to get both motors working with the ASI BAC855 controller. They haven't been able to get the torque sensor working but ToSeven has been helping them figure it out. They've also got plans to make the firmware compatible with other displays and allow open source software like Eggrider. There are also plans for a brake kit targeting the Magura MT5e's for performance with integrated brake sensors. It's a three pin connector so I'd guess it'll use a hall sensor.

Among DM-02 owners that have come from a TSDZ2B the consensus is that the DM-02 is better in every way shape and form.

HMU with any questions!
 
So, the DM-01 torque sensor works well and smoothly? Does it work near as well as CYC Photon or TSDZ2 torque sensors? As for firmware, how do changes happen? Via an app like CYC, or via an ST programmer like TSDZ2?

Heloc said:
I've had a DM-01 from California ebikes for about a month now and I love the thing! I have the 1000w version running on a 60v battery. It's installed on a Surly Pugsley with a nice rack, panniers, trunk bag, Surly Moloko handbars and bag. I've mostly been using it to run to the store or pick up take out and it's amazing. It's winter now so it takes a bit for me to get dressed but once I do I can just pop on the thing and go.

Support from both Cali ebike and ToSeven themselves has been amazing. They're both great to work with, quick to respond, very helpful and fair. They have some dedicated channels on the High Voltage discord. Just seeing them interact with other customers and potential customers has been VERY encouraging. I have a ton of confidence in this product and based on what I've seen from the company, success is inevitable.

The firmware is still under development and, frankly, the current version is a step backwards. I'm actually part of a customer testing group providing feedback on the firmware so don't worry fam, I gotchu. Obviously they can always roll back that previous version and they're hard at work improving on the current one now. Based on the previous version though, it's smooth af and feels so natural, like I have bionic legs. I went bombing down this nice wide gravel train near me built on an old rail line so it's flat and and straight as can be. Full af. I've found that I really like cycling as a form of cardio and I love that I can pick my cadence and effort level and then decide how fast I want to go and smooth out some hills.

They've also been working with some folks trying to get both motors working with the ASI BAC855 controller. They haven't been able to get the torque sensor working but ToSeven has been helping them figure it out. They've also got plans to make the firmware compatible with other displays and allow open source software like Eggrider. There are also plans for a brake kit targeting the Magura MT5e's for performance with integrated brake sensors. It's a three pin connector so I'd guess it'll use a hall sensor.

Among DM-02 owners that have come from a TSDZ2B the consensus is that the DM-02 is better in every way shape and form.

HMU with any questions!
Click to expand...
 
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Heloc said:
Support from both Cali ebike and ToSeven themselves has been amazing. They're both great to work with, quick to respond, very helpful and fair. They have some dedicated channels on the High Voltage discord. Just seeing them interact with other customers and potential customers has been VERY encouraging. I have a ton of confidence in this product and based on what I've seen from the company, success is inevitable.

The firmware is still under development and, frankly, the current version is a step backwards.
Click to expand...
I see the DM02 is available again on pswpwer from china ..$355 plus $75 shipping. If it were ready to go with no need to depend on focus groups, user forums, etc, I would buy it. Not wanting to be trialing firmware, Seems like I should wait. I can't be tinkering with my bikes in the winter anyway,

I have two TSDZ2's, one of them the B version, both loaded with OSF firmware that meet our biking needs for now. We don't even use Turbo mode on them, but it's the durability that concerns me.
 
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raylo32 said:
So, the DM-01 torque sensor works well and smoothly? Does it work near as well as CYC Photon torque sensor?
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From what I've gathered from the High Voltage videos, no, not at this time was his take. But, "as well as" to me implies a hefty dose of personal preference, so, YMMV. Also, the Toseven has quite an extensive configuration interface within the stock display, so that may alter things as well. I'm on the fence about the Toseven motors, with a bit of bias related to the (former Tongsheng?) lead designer - this time I'm going to wait for a bit - maybe a motor change on my cargo bike. I'd like/want to see 1.) repair parts availability, 2.) a PEEK gear upgrade, 3.) and better chainrings.

If lightness, chain line with relatively low tooth counts, and only occasional full power needs are one's leading decision factors, IMO the Photon percolates to the top currently. For brute strength and fast running (which I like too), there are several better choices. It's great that we have so many choices now.
 
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docw009 said:
I see the DM02 is available again on pswpwer from china ..$355 plus $75 shipping....
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I'm surprised that PSWPower sell the Toseven again. Toseven had stopped selling by PSWPower and will do the sales itself if there is no salespoint in your region. I'm curious of which 3e party source these motors come from and if these are again a very old batch with insurmountable negatives as first was the case.

imho only California ebike for US and Ebikestuff.eu for EU are official selling them, but the latter is imho far too expensive. (twice the price of PSW, which is also the case for Tsdz2B).
 
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IMO the TSDZ2 and Photon torque sensors work ~equally well, so anything close to that would be acceptable. It sees like a lot of folks have this dialed in so I don't understand why ToSeven wouldn't... if not now, then soon. I agree Photon is a great motor and ticks about 85% of the boxes. Only thing it lacks is the ability to go hard on throttle in unrestricted mode for very long due to the inability of the motor to cool itself. I don't want to do that often but it sure would be nice to be able to do it. The holy grail for me would be a BBSHD with torque sensor... and they supposedly have that in the new 635, but with all that Bafang proprietary nonsense. Sigh. Maybe CYC will make a Photon V2 or some other motor that addresses the cooling problems. Would be worth the CYC premium for me if they pull that off.

Mongo said:
From what I've gathered from the High Voltage videos, no, not at this time was his take. But, "as well as" to me implies a hefty dose of personal preference, so, YMMV. Also, the Toseven has quite an extensive configuration interface within the stock display, so that may alter things as well. I'm on the fence about the Toseven motors, with a bit of bias related to the (former Tongsheng?) lead designer - this time I'm going to wait for a bit - maybe a motor change on my cargo bike. I'd like/want to see 1.) repair parts availability, 2.) a PEEK gear upgrade, 3.) and better chainrings.

If lightness, chain line with relatively low tooth counts, and only occasional full power needs are one's leading decision factors, IMO the Photon percolates to the top currently. For brute strength and fast running (which I like too), there are several better choices. It's great that we have so many choices now.
Click to expand...
 
TSDZ torques sensor is in fact not linear. It does react to like 25-35kg on pedal but beyond that does show little reaction. So the question is if Toseven or CYC have linear sensor reading and what is their saturation point (max load on pedal that can be read?)
 
Elinx said:
I'm surprised that PSWPower sell the Toseven again. Toseven had stopped selling by PSWPower and will do the sales itself if there is no salespoint in your region. I'm curious of which 3e party source these motors come from and if these are again a very old batch with insurmountable negatives as first was the case.

imho only California ebike for US and Ebikestuff.eu for EU are official selling them, but the latter is imho far too expensive. (twice the price of PSW).
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Have you noticed that those motors on pswpower do not have toseven logo on case?
 
Atak_Snajpera said:
Have you noticed that those motors on pswpower do not have toseven logo on case?
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I've asked the To7 crew about this but to the best of my knowledge PSWPower is NOT a To7 distributor and I would not trust those to be genuine motors. There is probably a reason why they're so much cheaper than everyone else.
 
raylo32 said:
But maybe by now with them rolling the motors out to US dealers some of those old issues have been improved in the latest batches?
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It's not the motors but the firmware. So if you were as gung ho about the company as I am (which is super rare for me) and bought a motor now it'll come with the most current firmware version. Another couple of weeks and I think they'll have a new version out that should be a big improvement. There will eventually be a more polished "production" firmware version. Even then I don't think the To7 crew are not the type to stop trying to improve things.

Whether you buy the motor now or later, you'll end up at the same place. It's just a matter of where along the process you want to jump in. The current firmware is just a stepping stone and will not be long lived. Olek has been frantically gathering feedback to get the current issues addressed ASAP.
 
it's not a rocket science. they should have this ready right with the first batch . not being able to solve simple software issue by saving settings so the end-user doesn't have to do this himself?? AFAIK everything is in the menu but when you purchase your have to set this up like the factory guys are unable to write chip with right software?? that's beyond any understanding of manufacturing process. pswpower is a reliable and well-known seller. giving them up for whatever made up reason is stupidity from the buyer point of view. whoever fcuked things up is to7 not psw ...don't believe they stole these motos from the crate "not finished . don't use" written on it...
 
pxl666 said:
... everything is in the menu but when you purchase your have to set this up like the factory guys are unable to write chip with right software??.....
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There were several firmware updates. If you buy a DM-0x from Toseven or a authorized distributor, you have the latest firmware, ready to go after you setup the basics like Battery Voltage
Atak_Snajpera said:
Have you noticed that those motors on pswpower do not have toseven logo on case?
Click to expand...
Yes, but this are only pictures (the same as the very early batch). You you don't know exactly what you get delivered.
That early batch before had also another brandname (Buffalo), but it was Toseven.

Problem is, as said, the source where they come from is unknown. It could be one of the latest batches with the firmware updates, but also it could be not. In the last case the motor performance will be dissapointing without flashing the controller and display.
So imho always order the flash kit too.
 
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Yeah, I know it is the firmware, but I would suspect that they wouldn't be rolling them out to dealers in the US unless the firmware has been whipped into pretty good function. No mfg wants to get product out there and then get terrible reviews. And the torque sense calibration and firmware issues seem to have been widely solved by many mfgs so this should not still be a problem. One would think.

I have been down the TSDZ2 OSF route and that was also pretty cool the way they constantly improve it. I also have a CYC Photon and they have pretty good firmware out of the box and do update it periodically. If To7 do that from the factory that would be fantastic.

So, how does firmware get updated on the To7s? Via an app and BT like CYC or an ST programmer like TSDZ2?

Heloc said:
It's not the motors but the firmware. So if you were as gung ho about the company as I am (which is super rare for me) and bought a motor now it'll come with the most current firmware version. Another couple of weeks and I think they'll have a new version out that should be a big improvement. There will eventually be a more polished "production" firmware version. Even then I don't think the To7 crew are not the type to stop trying to improve things.

Whether you buy the motor now or later, you'll end up at the same place. It's just a matter of where along the process you want to jump in. The current firmware is just a stepping stone and will not be long lived. Olek has been frantically gathering feedback to get the current issues addressed ASAP.
Click to expand...
 
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That is good... and bad. I have only 1 Windows laptop and the Windows 10 OS on it will expire next year. Maybe MS will ultimately see fit to release a Win 11 lite or some such that will work on non-qualifying devices. But I bet the bastards won't.

Atak_Snajpera said:
VIA windows application and programming cable.
Click to expand...
 
raylo32 said:
That is good... and bad. I have only 1 Windows laptop and the Windows 10 OS on it will expire next year. Maybe MS will ultimately see fit to release a Win 11 lite or some such that will work on non-qualifying devices. But I bet the bastards won't.
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You will just get half finished win12 and then... half finished win13 and so on. Windows at this point is like Start Citizen. Product in never ending alpha/beta.
 
no one is forcing you to use win 10 . i type this from win7 and im happily connected to internet and im not burning not have my machine turned into zombie computer or mining bitcoin ... not single penny lost from my bank accounts and so on . win10 is not mandatory ...
 
pxl666 said:
no one is forcing you to use win 10 . i type this from win7 and im happily connected to internet and im not burning not have my machine turned into zombie computer or mining bitcoin ... not single penny lost from my bank accounts and so on . win10 is not mandatory ...
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Me too. win7 for the win LOL
 
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