Bionx Battery problem

[Erikt]

Hmm, orange indicator after just two days - I think I may also have some part of the BMS consume energy.
I would sure like to find out if it's likely to be a component that could potentially be replaced by a non-bionx technician, as I don't have a Bionx dealer within driving distance.

EDIT: The voltage reads 52.5v, and I can't detect any heat from the PCB. I did find some black spots upon close inspection though, as encircled on these pictures. The top of that capacitor is meant to be black, however the side of it is not.

 

[Erikt]

it should not spark when you connect the fuse.

dnmun: A spark when inserting the fuse is normal, according to a Bionx workshop manual from 2011:
"Setzen Sie die neue Sicherung wieder ein. Achtung: Die Hauptsicherung setzt das System sofort wieder unter Strom. Es ist daher normal, dass beim Einsetzen ein kleiner Funke „überspringt“."



http://www.google.dk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDoQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.r-m.de%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2FWerkstatthandbuch_BionX.pdf&ei=otL3UZqTD4eStQb6kICIDA&usg=AFQjCNGqDE3W3rSkVmAGC7Q73zzyTcLN0A&sig2=PCCCBDgbprc_oXO-u1YijA&bvm=bv.49967636,d.Yms

 

[Tommy L]

Disconnect the battery whenever the cycle is not in use. My wife's Bionx requires this if the unit is used often.

My Bionx battery died, so I run Headway 38120HP Red Cells in a 12s2p configuration I'm good for 75 to 150km
Around 4 to 9 wh per km. Catrikes have low drag

Tommy L sends.....

 

[Erikt]

And how do u feed the can bus (5v)?

 

[Tommy L]

And how do u feed the can bus (5v)?

It probably does this through the controller.

Tommy L sends....

 

[Erikt]

So you are replacing only the cells, not the BMS?

 

[Tommy L]

Mine didn't really have a BMS. When I took the battery apart, there was only a thermister and
2 other wires...battery Pos and Neg. No sense wires, so I believe the BMS was only a LVC and HVC
with over heat protection.

Tommy L sends.....

 

[Erikt]

I just spoke to a German guy who has worked with Bionx since 2007. He claims that the Err 22 can mostly be cured through BIB intervention, i.e. either software update, reset of the BMS, or possibly some bootloader business, that I didn't quite catch (we were speaking German )
I expect to make a firmware update from 5.7 to current version (6.2?) next week.
Anyway, I would just like to update the post for reference. If other Bionx users with an Err 22 should read this in the future, they may not need to ship the Battery off to some remote Bionx specialist - I might just be possible for Bionx to solve the problem by remotely accessing the battery through a local dealers BIB.
BTW: I'm pretty amazed how techy those germans are!

 

[johnomd]

I have just developed the same error 22 after riding through the rain. Battery charges, console powers up, but no battery bar is displayed at all. In doing a querry, it can detect that the battery voltage is over 41v, and when I squeeze the accelerate toggle, the wheel does rotate about an 1/8th of a turn, and generative mode seems to still work as well. Opening the battery case showed a small amt of water, so assume internal card is shot. Anyone in the US with a worn out pre-candu Li-36, that they might be willing to part with for salvage, I would really appreciate, and willing to buy. Time is not an issue for me, so even if you see this post several months or year from now, don't hesitate to contact me at iu#som@ya#hoo.com (remove #'s). Thanks.

 

[zinzet]

Can anybody say how can I charge 48V Bionx battery without genuine charger and using charge channel on the BMS?
I connected simple Li-ion charger 29.2V, iCharger 4010 but it takes no effect.

 

[d8veh]

You could bypass tge BMS charge control by charging directly to the cell-pack. You lose one element of safety control, but it should still be OK if you use a proper ebike charger, which shuts off at the correct voltage and provides the correct current. I guess that the BMS would still balance the cells.

 

[Tommy L]

You could bypass tge BMS charge control by charging directly to the cell-pack. You lose one element of safety control, but it should still be OK if you use a proper ebike charger, which shuts off at the correct voltage and provides the correct current. I guess that the BMS would still balance the cells.

The above quote is not true. My experience shows that the Bionx battery has no sense wires
Going to each parallel group of cells. If you charge either thru the bionx port or direct using
Your 4110 charger your charger will shut off at The high side of
The voltage. This does not mean safe. If there is cells with very
high IR (internal resistance) some cells may be extreemely under charged
while others will be extreemely overcharged. Here's a simple example:
Let's say you have a pack with 10 cells in series. Let's say that each cell fully charged is 3.7v.
This would be 37v pack fully charged. So the charger shuts off at 37v. Great right? Wrong!
It's only great if each cell goes to 3.7v each. If you have a few cells
with high IR and a few with low IR, the low IR could be very over charged.
While the others under charged.
Perfect pack 3.7v cell 1 thru 10 = 37v
Not a perfect pack.....
Cell 1....3.7v
Cell 2.....1.1v
Cell 3.....4.4v
Cell 4.....2.1v
Cell 5.....4.8v
Cell 6.....3.4v and so on until it still adds up to 37v
The charger shuts off and you think everything is ok when it's not.

The capacity of the pack is only as good as the lowest charged
Cell.
I hope this was helpful. In my experience, sense wire to each
parallel string is a must for proper charging and monitoring.

 

[Erikt]

My experience shows that the Bionx battery has no sense wires
Going to each parallel group of cells.

IIRC this only applies to the Bionx batteries with 37v or below. For these models, Bionx used cells that tend to balance spontaneously. With the 48v batteries, however, they introduces a proper BMS that would balance cells in series (parallel cell balancing is always spontaneous, I think). Whether this balancing feature will set in if you charge by bypassing the BMS, I'm not sure.

 

[goodgnus]

I know this is an old thread, but just a heads up for future reference. Bionx is no longer taking batteries back for warranty work. Bionx does remote diagnostics on the system via the internet using the local BBI link. If the battery is determined to be faulty, they remotely brick the battery (unknown as to how this is done programmatically, maybe they just tell the BMS to stop responding to input/output), tell the bike shop to recycle it locally and ship out a new battery.

 

[dnmun]

there is an active electronic device we have seen on other batteries which will burn open a fuse built into the device to isolate the pack from the output. wish i knew where that thread was now.

that could be how the battery is turned off.

 

[Erikt]

Cell 1....3.7v
Cell 2.....1.1v
Cell 3.....4.4v
Cell 4.....2.1v
Cell 5.....4.8v
Cell 6.....3.4v and so on until it still adds up to 37v

This seems a highly exaggerated scenario. If a cell goes well above 4.3v for an extended length of time or stays below 2.5v when not under load, I would expect that cell to exit the equation.

 

[d8veh]

You could bypass tge BMS charge control by charging directly to the cell-pack. You lose one element of safety control, but it should still be OK if you use a proper ebike charger, which shuts off at the correct voltage and provides the correct current. I guess that the BMS would still balance the cells.

The above quote is not true. My experience shows that the Bionx battery has no sense wires
Going to each parallel group of cells. If you charge either thru the bionx port or direct using
Your 4110 charger your charger will shut off at The high side of
The voltage. This does not mean safe. If there is cells with very
high IR (internal resistance) some cells may be extreemely under charged
while others will be extreemely overcharged. Here's a simple example:
Let's say you have a pack with 10 cells in series. Let's say that each cell fully charged is 3.7v.
This would be 37v pack fully charged. So the charger shuts off at 37v. Great right? Wrong!
It's only great if each cell goes to 3.7v each. If you have a few cells
with high IR and a few with low IR, the low IR could be very over charged.
While the others under charged.
Perfect pack 3.7v cell 1 thru 10 = 37v
Not a perfect pack.....
Cell 1....3.7v
Cell 2.....1.1v
Cell 3.....4.4v
Cell 4.....2.1v
Cell 5.....4.8v
Cell 6.....3.4v and so on until it still adds up to 37v
The charger shuts off and you think everything is ok when it's not.

The capacity of the pack is only as good as the lowest charged
Cell.
I hope this was helpful. In my experience, sense wire to each
parallel string is a must for proper charging and monitoring.

If the 37v batteries don't have balance wires, but use self-balancing instead, it would be the same for charging whether you by-passed the BMS or not, so it can't do any harm to charge direct to the pack.

If the scenario that you explained could happen, then every Bionx battery would blow up, since there is no balancing through the BMS.

 

[dnmun]

4.8V is not gonna blow up a limno2 cell. i think this is the konion's chemistry which do appear to be self balancing from what i have read. i have no experience with them however.

 

[Syonyk]

4.8V is not gonna blow up a limno2 cell. i think this is the konion's chemistry which do appear to be self balancing from what i have read. i have no experience with them however.

No, but it's sure not going to like it! They're generally 4.2v fully charged.

 

[Tommy L]

Self balancing? Well, maybe thru heat disapation on a very
Long charge. And parallel groups do equalize as best they can.
But if you have a bad cell or two or more, then no balancing will
aid. Your usable capacity will be less.

 

[madin88]

subscribed

 

[meeki]

I know this is an old thread, but just a heads up for future reference. Bionx is no longer taking batteries back for warranty work. Bionx does remote diagnostics on the system via the internet using the local BBI link. If the battery is determined to be faulty, they remotely brick the battery (unknown as to how this is done programmatically, maybe they just tell the BMS to stop responding to input/output), tell the bike shop to recycle it locally and ship out a new battery.

Does anybody figured out what bionx bricks with the remote session and is it a replaceable part or component? I have a bricked G2 battery from a Trek the latest version with the smc rev6 controller inside.

Greetings Dennis

 

[Syonyk]

Does anybody figured out what bionx bricks with the remote session and is it a replaceable part or component? I have a bricked G2 battery from a Trek the latest version with the smc rev6 controller inside.

It's going to be something in the BMS board.

So, no, not replaceable - the only source for those is BionX, and they don't seem interested in selling the parts. They'll happily sell you a new system, though!

I'm really not happy with them lately. They make such unmaintainable devices, and abandon them so quickly, that they're basically throw away ebike kits. They don't document the protocols such that people can build aftermarket batteries, and if people have old I2C systems, the only thing they'll offer is a "loyalty discount" on a new system.

 

[madin88]

I have had already over 20 of these SMC REV 6.2 boards in hands and on a few i have seen missing parts that have fallen off because of poor soldering (i could scrape many of the smaller smd parts off with my fingers without struggle). On others i have spotted blown parts (mostly the FETs or diodes). But the most seem to be in perfect shape from optical checking, making me believe they are OK, but than i found out they behave really strange as for instance like charging only to 70% or debalancing a well balanced pack like cell 1 = 3,5V, cell 2 = 3,6V, cell 3 = 3,7V and so on

after those findings i think BIONX either must have had BIG problems with certain batches, or they have built in with intend some kind of planned obsolescence forcing the user to buy a new battery after a given time or usage.
because of that i only can advise to NOT buy BIONX. and if someone still is looking for repairing bionx batteries, only take the older 36V, I²C batteries (with the larger charging port). those can be repaired 9 times out of 10, but the 48V with smc 6 board you can throw into the garbage as a whole.

 

[izzzzzz6]

So this is an old thread but i'm wondering if anyone has repaired the 48V bionx charging board (looks like the one in the photo above but it's the SMC 6.3 version).
I wanted to see if it would charge at 25V rather than the normal 26V but the current must have gone high and now there is a short across the charging input cables.
At first i thought it was D2 but now wondering if the 5MO resistor might have gone short? Also there are flat metalic smd transistors that look seriously difficult to remove. Not easy probing around here without a schematic.
Any tips?
I'm going to probe around a bit more but i might resort to putting some power through and see what gets hot.
I'm editing the message, i went straight to remove the 5MO resistor, on the version 6.3 it is on the back of the board. Here is a photo. It is reading short and i'm assuming it should be 5Mohms. I'll have to see what i have in the way of standard resistors, not sure what the power rating of this is but it's quite big for an smd, you can see the same part in the photo posted above but it's on the front side in that photo.
Now i just need to work out which way around D2 was and see if anything else is shorted.