CYC PHOTON

[sysrq]

I am curious... I ordered my Photon motor from Golden Motor on April 12 th ...I am still waiting for them to ship my motor..Has anyone else ordered their Photon from this company? If so?..How long was your wait time from ordering to actual delivery?...

Hard to avoid any cognitive biases but judging by everything red on the internet this can be considered to be a boutique motor with inconsistent delivery times regardless of where it's purchased from. There is always some proportion who don't recieve them even if they order them sooner than others.
Some reported that they received CYC Photon in 3-5 weeks from golden motor.
Was hoping to pull off the usual 8 week timeframe frame but couldn't.

 

[raylo32]

Maybe boutique... or maybe there are enough of us buying them that they will crank up production and maybe it will wake up Bafang and others to make some torque sense alternatives and ditch that PAS crap.

 

[sysrq]

Maybe boutique... or maybe there are enough of us buying them that they will crank up production and maybe it will wake up Bafang and others to make some torque sense alternatives and ditch that PAS crap.

Now there are only two options in similar weight category: almost dollar store quality TSDZ2 and almost luxury style CYC Photon. Not sure if CYC will ramp up the production since they are partially more interested in constant R&D. Maybe some Chinese company will refine their production to similar tolerances and firmware after a while.

 

[sysrq]

I thought I had mentioned the shipping time elsewhere in this thread.

I ordered Feb 23, shipment was packed Mar 10, shipped Mar 13, received Mar 23. Fitted on Mar 25 FedEx shipping to NZ. I would be surprised if shipping is as long to France as to NZ.

I would imagine most of the delay is due to production constraints and I would imagine that there is a lot more interest in the Photon now than back when I ordered mine. I would also think CYC are trying to get distributors set up and they'll need to prioritize and allocate stock to them. Don't forget CYC will be feeling the pain from the delays shipping, too.

I was pleased shipping was this fast, but I would have been happy to wait for 2 - 3 months, there were no other options that would fit my bike. Of course, it is easy for me to say that, currently thoroughly enjoying this conversion

Someone on YouTube reported two weeks ago that they had to wait 6 months for CYC Photon to arrive even though they ordered the motor when it came out and there was less demand. By the look of it Baconbuttties was happy to wait for his CYC x gen 3 for three months to arrive, and when the magnets unglued inside the motor then it took only 4 days for him to receive a new brushless inrunner SPM replacement motor.

 

[raylo32]

Sounds like Toyota... I got a new Toyota back in January and they gave only 1 key fob with the 2nd to come later once supplies had been restored. I am still waiting, and it is supposed to come August. In theory. But meanwhile they have plenty of them in stock for sale in the parts department, but you would have to buy one. LOL.

Damn, I thought CYC solved the magnet issue with Gen 3 X1? I have never had a problem with my Gen 2 X1... but then it has pretty low miles.

Someone on YouTube reported two weeks ago that they had to wait 6 months for CYC Photon to arrive even though they ordered the motor when it came out and there was less demand. By the look of it Baconbuttties was happy to wait for his CYC x gen 3 for three months to arrive, and when the magnets unglued inside the motor then it took only 4 days for him to receive a new brushless inrunner SPM replacement motor.

 

[Epithemeus]

I am curious... I ordered my Photon motor from Golden Motor on April 12 th ...I am still waiting for them to ship my motor..Has anyone else ordered their Photon from this company? If so?..How long was your wait time from ordering to actual delivery?...

I ordered my photon from Golden Motor on April 20th and recieved it June 22nd. I also emailed them on June 15th to cancel my order because I had decided to go with a GMAC motor instead. They shipped it out that day. The squeaky wheel gets the grease I suppose? I feel kind of bad as I'm guessing they bumped me up the queue to save the order. Unless certain configurations are shipping sooner. Just for reference I ordered 34t chainring, ds103 display, with ebrakes, 175mm cranks, 73mm bottom bracket.

 

[raylo32]

So what bike did you install it on? How is it working?

I ordered my photon from Golden Motor on April 20th and recieved it June 22nd. I also emailed them on June 15th to cancel my order because I had decided to go with a GMAC motor instead. They shipped it out that day. The squeaky wheel gets the grease I suppose? I feel kind of bad as I'm guessing they bumped me up the queue to save the order. Unless certain configurations are shipping sooner. Just for reference I ordered 34t chainring, ds103 display, with ebrakes, 175mm cranks, 73mm bottom bracket.

 

[Epithemeus]

So what bike did you install it on? How is it working?

Trek Marlin 7. Install went well, the only issue I had was that the channel the side bracket thingy goes into on the motor casing had two tiny protusions stopping the bracket from fitting properly. I attached a pic. But I just took a Dremel to it and got them in.

Haven't ridden it nearly as much as I'd like yet because busy but love it everytime I do. Was a bit of an adjustment getting used to the torque sensor, I find low load high cadence a bit awkward as the power would cut in and out for me so I had to adjust and gear up to keep my cadence a bit lower than I would normally do. Maybe I can tweak the settings a bit but I don't find them intuitive. For instance why is there only one global setting for torque multiplier? Shouldn't it be one setting per assist level? Aka level 1 is a 1x multiplier, level 2 1.5x, level 3 2x, etc. Shouldn't torque sensor sensitivity be in nm? Though really the more I ride the more I get used to it and the default settings are probably just fine.

I have lots of suggestions I'd like to make to CYC around the display interface (I got the ds103) as I'm a data nerd and want as much as possible visible on one screen. Also data logging in the app would be phenomenal, fingers crossed! At the moment I hooked up an old v2 cycle analyst so I can look at that for power consumption and battery stats and use the ds103 for human power. Which brings up another interesting thing, the ds103 consistently reads about a volt higher than the CA and the multimeter agrees with the CA. Kind of worrisome. If you're regularly taking your battery down low I'd double check this number. Maybe I'll play with it and see if it's a consistent offset or variable.

I'm a nit picky person so I started my mini review with "I love it" because while I'm sure I could find millions more things I would change, overall it's excellent. Great fun and plenty of power for me. I haul my two year old around in a trailer and hills just melt away.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Batteries with proper BMS won't allow for too low state of charge (2.8v/CELL). Tested. My battery's BMS cuts-off power at 36.4V (48V battery). You can also set additional protection in the APP. In this case controller will also cut-off power at specified voltage. For example I set at 37V.

Maybe I can tweak the settings a bit but I don't find them intuitive. For instance why is there only one global setting for torque multiplier? Shouldn't it be one setting per assist level? Aka level 1 is a 1x multiplier, level 2 1.5x, level 3 2x, etc. Shouldn't torque sensor sensitivity be in nm? Though really the more I ride the more I get used to it and the default settings are probably just fine

Yes! I also do not understand idea behind that extra motor multiplier. This could be simplified.

 

[sysrq]

Sounds like Toyota... I got a new Toyota back in January and they gave only 1 key fob with the 2nd to come later once supplies had been restored. I am still waiting, and it is supposed to come August. In theory. But meanwhile they have plenty of them in stock for sale in the parts department, but you would have to buy one. LOL.

Damn, I thought CYC solved the magnet issue with Gen 3 X1? I have never had a problem with my Gen 2 X1... but then it has pretty low miles.

Asked them about next estimated delivery date and they said that I can rest assured since they will let me know when my order will be available as they are experiencing a bit of a demand.
Surprisingly there aren't more discussions from other customers about current delays.

Now ordered BBSHD since I'm not sure if they are going to make it by the end of the summer.

BBSHD might be better suited for unpredictable commuting demands due to increased thermal mass (might reduce the need for overnight stay and increase the amount of trips per month).

Will have to use CYC Photon as an experimental motor to play with at first.

 

[sysrq]

I ordered my photon from Golden Motor on April 20th and recieved it June 22nd. I also emailed them on June 15th to cancel my order because I had decided to go with a GMAC motor instead. They shipped it out that day. The squeaky wheel gets the grease I suppose? I feel kind of bad as I'm guessing they bumped me up the queue to save the order. Unless certain configurations are shipping sooner. Just for reference I ordered 34t chainring, ds103 display, with ebrakes, 175mm cranks, 73mm bottom bracket.

I could also try to cancel but I'm not sure if they will respond in the same way.

 

[Epithemeus]

I could also try to cancel but I'm not sure if they will respond in the same way.

One of those things that if everybody tries then nobody wins I honestly just needed a motor asap for a camping trip so was going to get the GMAC local. I feel like if you've been waiting forever it's fair to try to cancel to see if they send it faster as long as you aren't bluffing and are genuinely willing to go with a different motor. Just sucks cause I feel like there isn't anything else quite like the photon out there.

 

[sysrq]

One of those things that if everybody tries then nobody wins I honestly just needed a motor asap for a camping trip so was going to get the GMAC local. I feel like if you've been waiting forever it's fair to try to cancel to see if they send it faster as long as you aren't bluffing and are genuinely willing to go with a different motor. Just sucks cause I feel like there isn't anything else quite like the photon out there.

So you said to them that you have no other choice but to cancel the Photon and opt for GMAC instead so that they decided to dispatch it immediately.

Actually might cancel mine too and wait for the Proton since compared to BBSHD the Photon wouldn't feel utilitarian enough.

 

[Epithemeus]

So you outright said to them that you have no other choice but to cancel the Photon and opt for GMAC instead?

Basically. I didn't mention GMAC specifically. Just said I could no longer wait for the photon to ship due to an upcoming camping trip and that I was going to purchase a motor locally instead (I'm lucky to live in Vancouver where Grin is). They emailed back saying the motor had shipped already. I did notice the label created time in the tracking info was well after the email sent time. So they clearly scrambled

That being said, I think the GMAC is a pretty great alternative. You give up on using your gears but you gain regen and the CA is an amazing tool.

 

[hindesite]

Do we know (or have any idea) how the three level settings in the app are applied when you have more than 3 PAS levels available?

Are the intermediate settings (like 2 of 5, 4 of 5 etc) interpolated from the 3 main level settings?

 

[hindesite]

What app is this, and why does it have data logging but Ride Control does not? (come on CYC!)

 

[seanchad]

I was playing around a bit last week, I set the value for the low setting to 36 then held the throttle down whilst in Pas 1 and it was limited to 36 watts. I didn't take it any further as I was on my way out but I can only assume that if you select more than 3 Pas levels that it distributes the power between them. I've kept mine with 3 levels for now whilst I play around. That app you have pictured could be the one from when bac controllers where used.

 

[raylo32]

Update on my inability to adjust wheel size in the display... I contacted CYC a few days ago and sent them a video showing it stuck on 29... apparently this is not a common or even known issue so the tech support person forwarded it on to the engineers. No ETA for resolution yet... But it seems to me like this could possibly be fixed by resetting/restoring the firmware to factory settings, but unfortunately they did not include that ability from the display settings menu.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

What app is this, and why does it have data logging but Ride Control does not? (come on CYC!)

View attachment 336078

Probably the oldest app for cyc x1 pro gen1 (first version without torque sensor)

 

[raylo32]

I did another test I had been wanting to try now that I have a handful of rides... Like many of you I have a couple of batteries. Mine are both EM3EV Super Sharks, one 50 amp "high power" and one 30 (or 20?) amp "high energy" type. I had been riding the Photon in unrestricted race mode with the 50 amp, but wanted a way to use the 30 amp. So, the motor is set to unrestricted and I modified Street Mode to have a 30 mph speed limit but kept the power limit at 800W.

Then I did my 22 mile ride in Street Mode mostly in an assist level that topped the power delivery to 270 watts. Worked just fine, of course, and used only 2 volts... started at 57.5 and ended at 55.5! This is just the ticket if you want to do a long solo ride or a club ride with the humans... can probably get a metric century in on one Super Shark... not even need a jumbo shark.

And the thing is that in max assist for street mode I can still get the speed up to the ~28-30ish MPH where I get spun out on the pedals anyway. 800 watts is plenty for that. The main difference from race mode is that you just climb a bit slower.

So, for really fast rides take the 50 amp, for longer slower rides, Street Mode and just about any battery will do.

 

[hindesite]

I did another test I had been wanting to try now that I have a handful of rides... Like many of you I have a couple of batteries. Mine are both EM3EV Super Sharks, one 50 amp "high power" and one 30 (or 20?) amp "high energy" type. I had been riding the Photon in unrestricted race mode with the 50 amp, but wanted a way to use the 30 amp. So, the motor is set to unrestricted and I modified Street Mode to have a 30 mph speed limit but kept the power limit at 800W.

Then I did my 22 mile ride in Street Mode mostly in an assist level that topped the power delivery to 270 watts. Worked just fine, of course, and used only 2 volts... started at 57.5 and ended at 55.5! This is just the ticket if you want to do a long solo ride or a club ride with the humans... can probably get a metric century in on one Super Shark... not even need a jumbo shark.

And the thing is that in max assist for street mode I can still get the speed up to the ~28-30ish MPH where I get spun out on the pedals anyway. 800 watts is plenty for that. The main difference from race mode is that you just climb a bit slower.

So, for really fast rides take the 50 amp, for longer slower rides, Street Mode and just about any battery will do.

Is there any advantage at all in using the 50A battery especially if you are limiting the power to 800W? Even the 30A battery will perform up to 1500W and probably give better range than the 50A battery. 1500W is an insane amount of power for that poor chain :-(

 

[raylo32]

I don't believe there is any advantage to using the 50 amp battery at the Street Mode lower power levels. But it is best to run the 50 amp battery in unrestricted race mode. The issue is when the battery is discharged to lower SOC. In this case, when you get below 50V you could risk exceeding 30 amps. So, I plan to run the high power battery most of the time.

Is there any advantage at all in using the 50A battery especially if you are limiting the power to 800W? Even the 30A battery will perform up to 1500W and probably give better range than the 50A battery. 1500W is an insane amount of power for that poor chain :-(

 

[raylo32]

One strange thing to report from my last ride reported above... Inconsistent transition of boost between assist levels in Street Mode.

I know this has been discussed at least once but maybe someone has some new info?? I have my Photon display set to 5 levels of assist from the default 3. In the app I set mine up unrestricted, then modified street mode for a higher speed limit and to set the upper limit on power to 800 (was that also default??). In any case the question is how the app's three level settings (low, mid, high) then get translated to 5 (or 9 if you choose) levels in the display.

I was riding in Street Mode level 4 and the torque power assist topped out at 270W. That's all I wanted on that ride but it seems I should have had that in level 2 or 3. Then level 5 gave me all 800 so it was like a huge step from 4 to 5. Race mode does not behave like this and assist power seems to ramp up normally from one level to the next. Anyone else here seen this or similar? I need to test this again on a nearby hill.

 

[seanchad]

I'm not with my bike right now so can't test but was planning on testing this using the throttle. Set low to 100, mid to 250 and high to 500. Get the rear wheel off the ground and hit full throttle in each of your 5 power levels and see the max watts.

 

[raylo32]

That will be hard to get a reading without resistance on the wheel. You will see a quick pulse but then the wheel will be past the speed limit and power will come off. If you have a trainer put it on there. And remember that the throttle power and power from the torque sensor are independent settings.

I'm not with my bike right now so can't test but was planning on testing this using the throttle. Set low to 100, mid to 250 and high to 500. Get the rear wheel off the ground and hit full throttle in each of your 5 power levels and see the max watts.