CYC X1 Stealth (NEW)

[NexusG]

What I learned from this is that even in my lowest gear, it was way too easy to overheat the Stealth. This was the last straw I am going to go back to the TSDZ2 until CYC gets things fixed!

That's sad to hear !
I thought the X1 Stealth was designed such as an overheating is very difficult in normal mountain bike condition

What is your battery voltage ? Cranking up the voltage to 72v will reduce the copper losses

Others having overheating issue with the X1 Stealth ?

 

[jeff.page.rides]

What I learned from this is that even in my lowest gear, it was way too easy to overheat the Stealth. This was the last straw I am going to go back to the TSDZ2 until CYC gets things fixed!

That's sad to hear !
I thought the X1 Stealth was designed such as an overheating is very difficult in normal mountain bike condition

What is your battery voltage ? Cranking up the voltage to 72v will reduce the copper losses

Others having overheating issue with the X1 Stealth ?

I am using 52 Volt batteries, I am in the process of trying the X1 Pro, There should be no way I can overheat the X1 pro with a 1000 watt limit.


The X1 Pro and the X1 Stealth are both noisy, and some of the TSDZ2s can be a little noisy, but most of them are very quiet below 500 watts as the watts go up above 500 watts so does the noise. The BBSO2 are almost silent but they need a torque sensor to work correctly.

 

[afzal]

The BBSO2 are almost silent but they need a torque sensor to work correctly.

Has anyone made BBS01/2 or BBSHD work with torque sensor ?

[ since some comparison w/ BBS01/2, BBSHD & TSDZ2 has happened, posting here ]

 

[jeff.page.rides]

The BBSO2 are almost silent but they need a torque sensor to work correctly.

Has anyone made BBS01/2 or BBSHD work with torque sensor ?

[ since some comparison w/ BBS01/2, BBSHD & TSDZ2 has happened, posting here ]

I don't think so, that is something Bafang needs to do.

 

[raylo32]

It would have to be engineered into the bottom bracket. Bafang seems resistant to doing this for some reason... which I believe is that their market for the BBS motors is non-cyclists who want mopeds and just run around with the throttle or PAS whilst fake pedaling. Those of us who want it to ride like a real bike, only easier and faster, are shut out.

Another small issue would be that regular bike gear ratios are insufficient for pedaling at the top speed these will attain. Just like my CYC X1 Pro Gen 2. That does have a torque sensor but I am spun out on the pedals long before reaching top speed. Have to just use the throttle for that to go from ~30 MPH spun out pedaling to ~42 MPH on throttle. Depending on how you plan to use the bike you can put on some unusually high gears to keep pedaling at higher speeds. But that might not be ideal if you go off road or have really steep hills.

The BBSO2 are almost silent but they need a torque sensor to work correctly.

Has anyone made BBS01/2 or BBSHD work with torque sensor ?

[ since some comparison w/ BBS01/2, BBSHD & TSDZ2 has happened, posting here ]

 

[raylo32]

....

 

[jeff.page.rides]

I have TSDZ2 and CYC X1 Pro bikes. Doing fast rides with that kind of climbing, your friend's TSDZ2 must have had cooling mods... or it has extra crispy windings. Most of my rides around here do about 2000 climbing in 30 miles and my TSDZ2 in stock form would quickly approach critical temp on the climbs. I added cooling mods and fixed that. I have never seen any power pull back on the CYC X1, but I don't know what the temps are doing inside it.

For the last 4 years, I have done the ride I did today many times with a BBS02 and a TSDZ2. Today was the first time with the Stealth, 40 miles, 1900 feet climbing, 70 degrees F outside. On the downhill, flat, small uphill climbs the CYC Stealth did well as long as I kept it at a high RPM. But when I started the longer climbs I was doing well with the motor set at 3 out of 9 it would put out 650 watts. Then the longer I rode it would overheat and start dropping in watts down to 200 watts. Then my friend riding with me would pass me with his TSDZ2 and leave me behind, then I would stop and let it cool down, and it would repeat the same thing again. What I learned from this is that even in my lowest gear, it was way too easy to overheat the Stealth. This was the last straw I am going to go back to the TSDZ2 until CYC gets things fixed!

The X1 Pro has a much better motor than the Stealth and doesn't have an air gap motor like the stealth has so the X1 Pro cools much better.

I have ridden 2 times now with the X1 Pro. I have it set for 800 watts max, and it works much better than the Stealth at 1500 watts max in the low to mid RPMs, but still doesn't take off well until the motor RPMs get past 150 and the sweet spot is 200-400 motor RPMs. It is also staying cool, but I haven't tried the steep rides yet. I am going to switch from the 11t 63t gears with a 36 chain ring to the 11t 72t. This should help the low and mid rpm power! It is super loud.

 

[raylo32]

Yes, the X1 is loud. Does yours have the steel or optional brass gears? I am going to try the brass gears, if I can find a set. The CYC website seems only to offer the entire gearboxes, with either steel or brass gears, same price. Would be much cheaper if we could just swap the gears. Looks like they are easy enough to swap, just circlips holding them onto the shafts.

I have ridden 2 times now with the X1 Pro. I have it set for 800 watts max, and it works much better than the Stealth at 1500 watts max in the low to mid RPMs, but still doesn't take off well until the motor RPMs get past 150 and the sweet spot is 200-400 motor RPMs. It is also staying cool, but I haven't tried the steep rides yet. I am going to switch from the 11t 63t gears with a 36 chain ring to the 11t 72t. This should help the low and mid rpm power! It is super loud.

 

[jeff.page.rides]

Let me know what it sounds like after you try the brass gears. Thanks

Yes, the X1 is loud. Does yours have the steel or optional brass gears? I am going to try the brass gears if I can find a set. The CYC website seems only to offer the entire gearboxes, with either steel or brass gears, same price. Would be much cheaper if we could just swap the gears. Looks like they are easy enough to swap, just circlips holding them onto the shafts.

I have ridden 2 times now with the X1 Pro. I have it set for 800 watts max, and it works much better than the Stealth at 1500 watts max in the low to mid RPMs, but still doesn't take off well until the motor RPMs get past 150 and the sweet spot is 200-400 motor RPMs. It is also staying cool, but I haven't tried the steep rides yet. I am going to switch from the 11t 63t gears with a 36 chain ring to the 11t 72t. This should help the low and mid rpm power! It is super loud.

 

[raylo32]

Might be a long while. I haven't heard back from CYC if the brass gears are available. I am not ready to drop $200 + shipping on an entire gearbox. And meanwhile I am in the middle of pedal bike season.

Let me know what it sounds like after you try the brass gears. Thanks

 

[raylo32]

I just heard from CYC and it isn't good. Firstly, they don't usually sell the replacement gears. Only the entire gearboxes. So if you have a damaged gear you have no option but to buy a whole new gearbox. They also said that for more recent sales they might make an exception and sell you a set of the brass gears for $68 USD + shipping. But, of course, my X1 Pro Gen2 purchase wasn't "recent enough" to qualify. LOL. Pretty sad customer support.

 

[jeff.page.rides]

I just heard from CYC and it isn't good. Firstly, they don't usually sell the replacement gears. Only the entire gearboxes. So if you have a damaged gear you have no option but to buy a whole new gearbox. They also said that for more recent sales they might make an exception and sell you a set of the brass gears for $68 USD + shipping. But, of course, my X1 Pro Gen2 purchase wasn't "recent enough" to qualify. LOL. Pretty sad customer support.

I wonder how much brass gears quiet it down?
From the NOISY power assist it is.

 

[raylo32]

Yeah, damn good question. Unfortunately, it would cost $200 to find out. Plus shipping. Because the pirates won't sell the gears separately. You go first!

I just heard from CYC and it isn't good. Firstly, they don't usually sell the replacement gears. Only the entire gearboxes. So if you have a damaged gear you have no option but to buy a whole new gearbox. They also said that for more recent sales they might make an exception and sell you a set of the brass gears for $68 USD + shipping. But, of course, my X1 Pro Gen2 purchase wasn't "recent enough" to qualify. LOL. Pretty sad customer support.

I wonder how much brass gears quiet it down?
From the NOISY power assist it is.

 

[Joost5000]

I have the brass gears, it’s just a different pitch, but not quieter. May 5-10% more quiet, but certainly not worth the 68 upgrade

I just heard from CYC and it isn't good. Firstly, they don't usually sell the replacement gears. Only the entire gearboxes. So if you have a damaged gear you have no option but to buy a whole new gearbox. They also said that for more recent sales they might make an exception and sell you a set of the brass gears for $68 USD + shipping. But, of course, my X1 Pro Gen2 purchase wasn't "recent enough" to qualify. LOL. Pretty sad customer support.

I wonder how much brass gears quiet it down?
From the NOISY power assist it is.

 

[jeff.page.rides]

Let me know what it sounds like after you try the brass gears. Thanks

Yes, the X1 is loud. Does yours have the steel or optional brass gears? I am going to try the brass gears if I can find a set. The CYC website seems only to offer the entire gearboxes, with either steel or brass gears, same price. Would be much cheaper if we could just swap the gears. Looks like they are easy enough to swap, just circlips holding them onto the shafts.

I have ridden 2 times now with the X1 Pro. I have it set for 800 watts max, and it works much better than the Stealth at 1500 watts max in the low to mid RPMs, but still doesn't take off well until the motor RPMs get past 150 and the sweet spot is 200-400 motor RPMs. It is also staying cool, but I haven't tried the steep rides yet. I am going to switch from the 11t 63t gears with a 36 chain ring to the 11t 72t. This should help the low and mid-rpm power! It is super loud.

I have been able to ride 200 miles with the X1 Pro at 1000 max watts, using the 11-72 motor drive, with a 36 chainring and a Nexus 8 hub with an 18t. The first thing I noticed is the motor RPM is a four-digit number but drops the fourth digit most of the time, 100 is 1000, 250 is 2500, and so on. It doesn't have any power below 1500 motor rpm, from 1500 to 2500 it starts to make power and the sweet spot is 3000-5000 motor rpm. If the motor was geared lower internally it would work much better, and that goes double for the Stealth. The other remedy would be to use a motor with windings for more low rpm torque, not high rpm power, and that goes double for the Stealth. I have changed the settings some, and have improved the useability some, but haven't improved low rpm torque much. With the current setup when I pedal at 95 rpm in high gear, at about 35 mph the motor is around 4500 rpm. With the throttle, it will go higher. I could gear down the bike but then the top speed would drop when pedaling. It is the least noisy at 3000 rpm with a light load. Heavy loads at lower rpm the gears are noisy and the higher the motor rpm, the noisier high-pitched the motor gets. The current motors are supposed to rev up to 12000 rpm, what good is that high rpm for other than throttle only and you can hear it coming from a long way away?

 

[Nomadstealth]

The noise is moderate, no worse than the TSDZ2. Noticable, but okay and within expectations. Build quality is night and day compared to the TSDZ2 (I run the OSF versions). The X1 just feels like a much better quality product overall. I'm aware of the cooling mods with the TSDZ2... I just never found the time to go that route and then the X1 showed up. Power on the X1 is amazing by comparison, so much so that I need to do some tuning to make sure it doesn't eat the small cogs on my brand new 10-52T cassette. It seems to keep a fair bit of torque applied when shifting, even when I back off during shifts... I'm hoping a simple timing fix in software will solve that. Otherwise, it's been very promising given the 15 minutes of ride time I've had on it so far. Mechanically, everything is perfect, I now just need to make some fine adjustments in software.

PS - in many ways the X1 feels a lot like the OEM motor Rocky Mountain uses, and has a similar noise level. Not as refined as the other OEM motors, but certainly decent.

I've been using a Bafang 'kill switch' plugged in to where one of the brake sensors would go , it comes in handy for those more technical corners where you need to pedal but don't want the power to kick in . Yeah , you could change the PAS down to zero , but I only want it that way for a couple of seconds . Plugged in to where the other brake sensor would go I've got a shift sensor . I'm really happy with it works with the X1 Stealth , cuts power for a fraction of a second on every shift and no more clunking from the drive train . The only change I made is in the brake settings , the analogue brake full voltage needed to be really close to the brake 1 voltage for the best results . And no , I don't use the brake cut outs , I got the 4 to 1 cable just so I could fit what I've mentioned .

 

[tmho]

I have about 160km on my Stealth and I would like to share my comments on it.

Basically, it can fullfill my needs, which are light weight, reliable and with adequate speed. But I am disappointed that it fails in some simple functions, such as the clock will need to be adjusted whenever the power is off, the battery capacity is not working, and no cruise control.

Recently, I found another problem which is the speed limiting function. I set the Street Mode - Throttle to 500W and 32 km/h. Under no load condition, I pressed and HELD the throttle at a certain position. The motor ran and once the speed reached about 25 km/h, the motor stopped. And when the speed dropped to about 15 km/h, the motor ran again. And this just kept repeating. The motor just on and off and could not maintain a steady speed. When I set the Street Mode - Throtte to 250W and 20 km/h, the same happened and the range of speed was between about 14 - 22 km/h. Below please see the videos for your reference.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tgblDN-hcT0[/youtube]
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMjEjKA0Pr8&t=6s[/youtube]

When it was under load (actual riding), the situations were better. The motor just on and off between 21 - 24 km/h for 500W 32km/h, and 17-19 km/h for 250W 25 km/h. But still I think this is not acceptable.

This is not my expectation for the speed limiting function . I will expect the motor to run at the set maximum speeds continuously if the throttle position (and other conditions) has not been changed. I have contacted CYC about this and they confirmed that they power on and off the motor to control the speed. I guess they should control the current feeding to the motor (instead of controlling the on and off of the motor) which should not be difficult to do so.

Luckily, my city seldom check e-bike speed and so I do not need to use the speed limiting function. Anyway, I still like my Stealth. However, if CYC can fix those simple functions in their future updates, then the Stealth will be perfect for me.

edit: some data has been revised.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

I have cyc x1 stealth and I have noticed that on default 69Nm/volts under Torque sensor gain my pedaling power is extremely overestimated!

In my case 12Nm/volts is correct and gives correct values.

Source https://www.omnicalculator.com/sports/cycling-wattage
Machanical power needed on flat without wind in order to maintain specific speed
20 km/h -> 70 W
25 km/h -> 119 W
30 km/h -> 188 W
35 km/h -> 282 W
40 km/h -> 404 W

Some examples after correction

20km/h
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PqFALxSvOQ

25km/h
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYuu8KpsxWc

30km/h
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHeB26XdFfI


Btw. I think I figured out how motor input power is calculated.

Formula may looks like this (highest assist level)

MOTOR INPUT POWER = AVERAGE HUMAN POWER * PEDALEC POWER GAIN * (AVERAGE PEDAL RPM / PEDAL SPEED MAP END RPM * 3)

Some graphs using above formula

 

[Retro Electric]

The "stealth moniker" confused me.

I associate it with "concealed" as in, harder to tell it's an eBike.

But then the bomber style bikes use the same name and they are designed to make it obvious.

Which is meant in this context?

Quieter. But a jet taking off is quieter than an X1 Pro at 5000w...

 

[marjoriefinnigan]

Quieter. But a jet taking off is quieter than an X1 Pro at 5000w...

That made me lolz :lol:

The noise is becoming a bit of an issue for me. I actually think my stealth is getting noisier sadly, to the point where I've pulled it to bits to check the bearings. Everything feels fine though, so a bit stumped at the moment.
Have run the bare motor up and that isn't particularly noisy so guess it's just the gear box... Barring some good grease I can't see what else could help.
Have popped old bbs02 back on bike for now....ah, the sound of silence, lovely! It rides really nicely and if it didn't hang so low under the bb I would probably leave it on. I'm with ebuilder in really quite liking the cadence sensing.

 

[Nomadstealth]

I've taken apart both of the X1 Stealths that I've got and added Mobil synthetic grease to the planetary gears . When one was complete I rode both of the bikes back to back . The bike with the extra grease was noticeably quieter , not anywhere near silent , but quieter . At a decent speed the normal wawawawawawawa of the planetary gears is now more wewewewewewewewe .

 

[marjoriefinnigan]

Thanks Nomad.
Have just stripped it right down, degreased everything and regreased with mobilith shc100. It does actually sound a bit quieter on the bench, so fingers crossed....
Will report back when I can be arsed to refit it

 

[marjoriefinnigan]

https://www.cycmotor.com/x1-stealth-gen-3

Gen3 stealth and x1 out for pre order.

 

[Deleted member 82754 (removed by user request)]

Hi all,
Purchsed my X1 Stealth in spring 2022, installed it on a Salsa Rangfinder. (the bbshd wouldnt fit). Had my share of problems at first but CYC responded in a timely manner on all issues. (well, 99.9 pct)
I have put over 750 miles with a good mix of singletrack mtb, gravel, semi groomed orv trails and road. Overall my experience has been good and it particularly excels (IMO) on the mtb trails, which is kinda what this bike was made for.
I think the torque sensing is awesome on the trail. Haven't figured if it is "true" or "calculated" torque but it works great for me even with factory settings. I like being able to slowly approach obstacles or an embankment at 15 to 50 watts and then get the needed increase in power as you attempt it (200 to 900 or more) depending on assist level and app settings. It encourages me to pedal harder and faster, ergo...more fun and more excercise. You don't get the power unless you ask for it by pedaling harder.
Obviously the noise was a HUGE issue for me in the beginning (my first was a bbs02), and still a little bummed about it, but what cha gonna do? Pedal harder, go faster, hear wind, avoid trees.
I'm just kind of an old guy out havin fun. Don't rip me too hard, I mean WOW! I was reading the thread on the new stealth photon, I mean WOW!
"kaint we all jus git along!"

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

I also bought stealth in april 2022. I've done over 1000 km so far. No issues even after rainy weather.

However my torque sensor requires 12Nm/volt to be set in cyc app in order to have realistic human power readings. Default 69Nm/volt was giving me insanly high values. Up to 1500w!