D's RC Drive Kona DC1
- Thread starter deecanio
- Start date
GGoodrum
1 MW
I think the gearing options you were looking at were 60T/12T for Matt's drive, 80T/14T for the belt drive, and a 42T chainring driving a 34T/22T/11T setup in back. Those are the numbers I had in my spreadsheet, when I was trying to figure out your top speeds in each gear. Using the Hacker, and 48V, that would be 16/25/50 mph, respectively.
Hi Gary,
that sounds spot on to me, thank you, i had re-read the freewheel thread but between then and time to order i had forgotten most of it and the pre spending jitters crept in.
right so a few more parts up and the cost is looking grim already :lol: what can you do?
it does feel a little weird posting the prices as i build as normally if im telling the wife how much i shave a bit off
Right few more parts up so holla if you know better or cheaper!!
Cheers,
D
that sounds spot on to me, thank you, i had re-read the freewheel thread but between then and time to order i had forgotten most of it and the pre spending jitters crept in.
right so a few more parts up and the cost is looking grim already :lol: what can you do?
it does feel a little weird posting the prices as i build as normally if im telling the wife how much i shave a bit off
Right few more parts up so holla if you know better or cheaper!!
Cheers,
D
Miles,
looking at the belts again do you suggest the single flange or dual flange 14t ? and do you know which bore?,actually ill look to see if i can find the size of the gb output shaft.do i just mail these frims to ask for price ?
Also, the Cdrive 80t is great ,thanks for that, its 202mm which is a little bigger than my 42t chainring (170mm) but i can live with that for sure, i did check my Bashring also which is unfortunately 190mm so that means that my cdrive pulley will get hit on obstacles first, if only the cdrive was double flanged with thick flanges,mmmmmm it would be perfect!! anyway all these devices i already have and they all are the 4 bolt 110mm type, as is the cdrive so it seems to best to just make something like the big cheese adapter but 4 bolt, then im gessing i need to have the chainring on the outside of the eno and the cdrive on the inside.mmmmm. theres a nice simple way to piece this somewhere with one custom adapter ally be strong enough?
Cheers,
D
looking at the belts again do you suggest the single flange or dual flange 14t ? and do you know which bore?,actually ill look to see if i can find the size of the gb output shaft.do i just mail these frims to ask for price ?
Also, the Cdrive 80t is great ,thanks for that, its 202mm which is a little bigger than my 42t chainring (170mm) but i can live with that for sure, i did check my Bashring also which is unfortunately 190mm so that means that my cdrive pulley will get hit on obstacles first, if only the cdrive was double flanged with thick flanges,mmmmmm it would be perfect!! anyway all these devices i already have and they all are the 4 bolt 110mm type, as is the cdrive so it seems to best to just make something like the big cheese adapter but 4 bolt, then im gessing i need to have the chainring on the outside of the eno and the cdrive on the inside.mmmmm. theres a nice simple way to piece this somewhere with one custom adapter
ally be strong enough?Cheers,
D
GGoodrum
1 MW
The eDrive output shaft is 1/2".
GGoodrum
1 MW
deecanio said:
I'm still trying to figure out how to use the box setup first, so that I can test a bunch of things, not the least of which is whether or not the Hacker is a viable choice, and if the belt drive can handle the power I want to put through this setup. If it turns out, for example, that belt drive has a problem, I'll get Matt to do a chain drive as the first stage reduction instead.
-- Gary
hi Miles,Gary,
dual it is, thanks.
did you suggest to mitch a really good chain the other day? is it 3/32 standard? i've read in a few places that i should lose the king link too any thoughts on that?
yes i see Gary, i think the belt will be ok but as fetcher sais one test is worth a thousand opinions.
i just looked at how my cassette system works and it should be fairly easy at the back end, as far as i can make out i can choose any 9 speed casette that has single sprockets and fit them as i see fit - this will give me room to play with the chainline, i hope to extend my current shimano deore 3 speed front deraileur cable so that i can attach it to the rear deraileur and just use it to shift the three rear gears, as long as find out what a deore "shift" measurement is (4-5mm approx) i can just buy the coresponding cassette (shimano i guess?) and it will have the right sized spacers.I also need to buy a single speed conversion kit, these come with the spacers which i'll use to space out the gap left by the "missing" 6 sprockets.
Originally i was just going to buy the three rings i wanted as i'd seen some nice surly ones but if i get a nine well spaced i have spares incase i suffer worn sprockets.
the crank is slightly more difficult but im working on it!!
Cheers,
D
dual it is, thanks.
did you suggest to mitch a really good chain the other day? is it 3/32 standard? i've read in a few places that i should lose the king link too any thoughts on that?
yes i see Gary, i think the belt will be ok but as fetcher sais one test is worth a thousand opinions.
i just looked at how my cassette system works and it should be fairly easy at the back end, as far as i can make out i can choose any 9 speed casette that has single sprockets and fit them as i see fit - this will give me room to play with the chainline, i hope to extend my current shimano deore 3 speed front deraileur cable so that i can attach it to the rear deraileur and just use it to shift the three rear gears, as long as find out what a deore "shift" measurement is (4-5mm approx) i can just buy the coresponding cassette (shimano i guess?) and it will have the right sized spacers.I also need to buy a single speed conversion kit, these come with the spacers which i'll use to space out the gap left by the "missing" 6 sprockets.
Originally i was just going to buy the three rings i wanted as i'd seen some nice surly ones but if i get a nine well spaced i have spares incase i suffer worn sprockets.
the crank is slightly more difficult but im working on it!!
Cheers,
D
flyinmonkie
10 kW
deecanio said:
D,
The shift difference is very different form the front shifter to the rear. It would be better to use rear shifter and use the limit screws to keep the rear derailleur limited to the 3 sprockets. The limit screws are on the rear derailleur. You are right about using sprockets form any cassette as long as they are the same type of cassette. There are 3 kinds out there, but one is very old and less likely to run into. Look on http://sheldonbrown.com/k7.html to see the difference. the single speed kit is the best idea for spacers as they are all manufactured specifically for your purpose. Many single speed guys run 2 sizes of sprockets to have a choice in gears if they run into a big hill.
FM
hi FM
Thanks for the info, glad the single speed kit is a good option to get my spacers, i didn't realise that the front deraileur may be a different shift width and thought that even if it was i could just space the three rear sprockets to match as long as i can find out what the front one is, the spacers between the sprockets may not match at all but if it comes to it i'll ak steve to machine me some custom ones that match the front derailer.
The main reason i want to use the front shifter is it's purpose built for three gears but also it is mounted on the left side of my bars which is where i want it.
If it's not going to work i'll have to look at another solution as i dont want to use my 9 spd shifter as its for the right side of the bars and it seems odd to have 9 presets for 3 gears, mmmmm i'll look into this more but it's good news to know that getting a 9speed cassette thats singlesprockets will work.
Cheers,
D
Thanks for the info, glad the single speed kit is a good option to get my spacers, i didn't realise that the front deraileur may be a different shift width and thought that even if it was i could just space the three rear sprockets to match as long as i can find out what the front one is, the spacers between the sprockets may not match at all but if it comes to it i'll ak steve to machine me some custom ones that match the front derailer.
The main reason i want to use the front shifter is it's purpose built for three gears but also it is mounted on the left side of my bars which is where i want it.
If it's not going to work i'll have to look at another solution as i dont want to use my 9 spd shifter as its for the right side of the bars and it seems odd to have 9 presets for 3 gears, mmmmm i'll look into this more but it's good news to know that getting a 9speed cassette thats singlesprockets will work.
Cheers,
D
flyinmonkie
10 kW
D,
I figured the main reason you wanted to use the front shifter was to keep it on the left side. I would stick to the sprockets that come with the cassette as they are specifically designed to shift easily and with each other. Single speed specific sprockets will most likely not shift very happily as they are designed to keep the chain on the sprocket. You can also use the spacers that are between the sprockets on the cassette which will give you greater variety of spacings. You'll just need to fill out the portion you don't have sprockets on.
As for using the front shifter for the rear derailleur, you may find it an impossible mission to match the spacing of the sprockets to the shifting distance of the front shifter. That's not saying it can't be done. If you have a really good mechanic at you LBS they may be able to tell you the shift distance of the shifter. It does very between make and model and not all shifters work with all derailleurs or sprockets set ups. You may be able to measure the distance between your front chainrings to get a rough idea of how far the cable will pull the derailleur per click. I have set up 27 speed bikes for people to be only 9 speed or less by setting the derailleur stops on the front and or rear of the bike to only use a few or one of the gears. You are going to have to do that anyway to keep form over shifting and pulling the chain off anyway. When you reach the stop it is the same as when you reach your top gear, you just can't shift any further. So you could use 1, 2, and 3 on your rear shifter and none of the others. But it doesn't really work on the left side. Sorry, I'll stop rambling now.
FM
I figured the main reason you wanted to use the front shifter was to keep it on the left side. I would stick to the sprockets that come with the cassette as they are specifically designed to shift easily and with each other. Single speed specific sprockets will most likely not shift very happily as they are designed to keep the chain on the sprocket. You can also use the spacers that are between the sprockets on the cassette which will give you greater variety of spacings. You'll just need to fill out the portion you don't have sprockets on.
As for using the front shifter for the rear derailleur, you may find it an impossible mission to match the spacing of the sprockets to the shifting distance of the front shifter. That's not saying it can't be done. If you have a really good mechanic at you LBS they may be able to tell you the shift distance of the shifter. It does very between make and model and not all shifters work with all derailleurs or sprockets set ups. You may be able to measure the distance between your front chainrings to get a rough idea of how far the cable will pull the derailleur per click. I have set up 27 speed bikes for people to be only 9 speed or less by setting the derailleur stops on the front and or rear of the bike to only use a few or one of the gears. You are going to have to do that anyway to keep form over shifting and pulling the chain off anyway. When you reach the stop it is the same as when you reach your top gear, you just can't shift any further. So you could use 1, 2, and 3 on your rear shifter and none of the others. But it doesn't really work on the left side. Sorry, I'll stop rambling now.
FM
HI Guys,
thanks for the tips, i reckon i can get it working smoothly as im not too bad at the mechanics, in fact thats the one thing i can do for myself!!!
i'll let you know what i get and how it pan out for me, hopefully the wheel will be ready soon then i can bring my bike home and have a play with it whilst im waiting for the drive unit.I'll leave the battery box with steve for reconfig and then once i've finished the mechanics and the drive and motor arrive i'll take all my new toys back to jozzbikes for final assembly and testing.
Cheers,
D
thanks for the tips, i reckon i can get it working smoothly as im not too bad at the mechanics, in fact thats the one thing i can do for myself!!!
i'll let you know what i get and how it pan out for me, hopefully the wheel will be ready soon then i can bring my bike home and have a play with it whilst im waiting for the drive unit.I'll leave the battery box with steve for reconfig and then once i've finished the mechanics and the drive and motor arrive i'll take all my new toys back to jozzbikes for final assembly and testing.
Cheers,
D
Hi All,
i feel a little pikey putting the prices up but i do think it's a good idea, apart from my DB i need a full kit almost as if im converting from scratch so noobs will know the full cost, anyone have an opinion on it?
Anyway parts are getting ordered, some im waiting on a response from, namely gates's and the other firm with the 14t 8mm pitch pulley, still only mailed them yesterday lol. Matts sorting out my drive 8) and gary should have some hacker data soon enough. The new rear hub is ordered so i should get my laced wheel soon and therefore bike home again
then i can measure up and start to fit parts, nice.
Happy days my friends, happy days.
Cheers,
D
i feel a little pikey putting the prices up but i do think it's a good idea, apart from my DB i need a full kit almost as if im converting from scratch so noobs will know the full cost, anyone have an opinion on it?
Anyway parts are getting ordered, some im waiting on a response from, namely gates's and the other firm with the 14t 8mm pitch pulley, still only mailed them yesterday lol. Matts sorting out my drive 8) and gary should have some hacker data soon enough. The new rear hub is ordered so i should get my laced wheel soon and therefore bike home again
then i can measure up and start to fit parts, nice.Happy days my friends, happy days.
Cheers,
D
etard
100 kW
Deecandesigncanu :wink: ,
If the drive Matt is designing just barely fits between the cranks it would seem that you will have to put the drive belt to the cranks on the outside. I looked over the list of items to buy and noticed that you are not using a freewheeling crank. Are you still looking into the best options, or is this not necessary for your drive? Also, why not freewheel the pulley on the motor drive instead of vice versa?
It seems the pupil has become the teacher :lol: and I am still trying to figure this all out.
If the drive Matt is designing just barely fits between the cranks it would seem that you will have to put the drive belt to the cranks on the outside. I looked over the list of items to buy and noticed that you are not using a freewheeling crank. Are you still looking into the best options, or is this not necessary for your drive? Also, why not freewheel the pulley on the motor drive instead of vice versa?
It seems the pupil has become the teacher :lol: and I am still trying to figure this all out.
Hi etard,
my crank arms for the freewheel crank arrived today so i was thinking about this whilst i looked at them and i think im set.
i had been calculating the width between my crank arms using the fact that my bottom bracket was 128mm and that my cranks needed to fit onto the bb by at least 20mm each end leaving me 88mm to spare between the pedals.
Of course now with crank in hand i realise that i hadn't accounted for the cranks bend outwards so just by eye that should give me an extra 30mm at least, so 118mm which is just over the 4 1/2" Matt mentioned the other day, even if it's not quite fitting which i think it will it's close enough to know that with a bit of widging it will fit, whether or not i can widge it without impedeing the suspension is anoth task but there is a plan b there.
the 2nd freewheel is on the bigger pulley because it fits into the 60t pulley, just. You'd have to machine in a one way bearing, or something of that nature, into the small 12t pulley otherwise and im not sure the it would last too long tbh.
because the eno fits in the 60t so well and matt has the freewheel adapters to 1/2 bore it made perfect sense, got lucky there really as Matt and Miles figured it out for me
so my setup goes, fixed 5mm 12t pulley on motor shaft, 60t 5mm pulley with eno freewheel,these joined with 5mm pitch belt, then on the gb output 14t 8mm pulley to 80t crank pulley on freewheel crankset, easy 8)
it all should work well some wrangling aside but we'll see in just a few very very loooong weeks :lol:
Cheers,
D
my crank arms for the freewheel crank arrived today so i was thinking about this whilst i looked at them and i think im set.
i had been calculating the width between my crank arms using the fact that my bottom bracket was 128mm and that my cranks needed to fit onto the bb by at least 20mm each end leaving me 88mm to spare between the pedals.
Of course now with crank in hand i realise that i hadn't accounted for the cranks bend outwards
so just by eye that should give me an extra 30mm at least, so 118mm which is just over the 4 1/2" Matt mentioned the other day, even if it's not quite fitting which i think it will it's close enough to know that with a bit of widging it will fit, whether or not i can widge it without impedeing the suspension is anoth task but there is a plan b there.the 2nd freewheel is on the bigger pulley because it fits into the 60t pulley, just. You'd have to machine in a one way bearing, or something of that nature, into the small 12t pulley otherwise and im not sure the it would last too long tbh.
because the eno fits in the 60t so well and matt has the freewheel adapters to 1/2 bore it made perfect sense, got lucky there really as Matt and Miles figured it out for me
so my setup goes, fixed 5mm 12t pulley on motor shaft, 60t 5mm pulley with eno freewheel,these joined with 5mm pitch belt, then on the gb output 14t 8mm pulley to 80t crank pulley on freewheel crankset, easy 8)
it all should work well some wrangling aside but we'll see in just a few very very loooong weeks :lol:
Cheers,
D
etard
100 kW
Sorry, I guess I missed the freewheeling cranks. I am beginning to get swallowed up by the ever expanding list of expensive components this drive requires. If you start counting man-hours the Optibike is starting to look like a good deal.
Hi etard,
no problem there is an awful lot going on with the rc kit at the minute and im just about keeping up with my own build myself.
the parts are fairly expensive but tbh they're (for me in the uk) comparable to a hub setup really like for like, motor/esc were similair to my hubby prices when i first got them, it looks a lot as its a full setup from scratch i guess.
Opti is a great bike, but i really think with rc onboard we will surpass it on most fronts this season. btw there is a good opti video by Jamie on youtube, opti crash too !!! Glad to see he was ok :lol:
i think this is a fine level of performance for off road for myself tbh, but i do want my nike to be capable of more even if im not :lol:
i love the first minute then im done.
enjoy...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY83tHC14zM&feature=channel
Cheers,
D
no problem
there is an awful lot going on with the rc kit at the minute and im just about keeping up with my own build myself.the parts are fairly expensive but tbh they're (for me in the uk) comparable to a hub setup really like for like, motor/esc were similair to my hubby prices when i first got them, it looks a lot as its a full setup from scratch i guess.
Opti is a great bike, but i really think with rc onboard we will surpass it on most fronts this season. btw there is a good opti video by Jamie on youtube, opti crash too !!! Glad to see he was ok :lol:
i think this is a fine level of performance for off road for myself tbh, but i do want my nike to be capable of more even if im not :lol:
i love the first minute then im done.
enjoy...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY83tHC14zM&feature=channel
Cheers,
D
recumpence
1 GW
Etard,
D is building a very unique bike. For most people, the drive does not require FW cranks or other exotic stuff. But, for the way D wants his bike setup, complexity is part of it. :wink:
Matt
D is building a very unique bike. For most people, the drive does not require FW cranks or other exotic stuff. But, for the way D wants his bike setup, complexity is part of it. :wink:
Matt
etard
100 kW
That Opti is weak, it never seems like they are accelerating very fast, it makes me wonder how strong the drive is. 
I know D is going the most complicated route, but isn't that what most of us want? :? I would think most people want to drive through the cranks, to take advantage of all the gears. Although, I would recommend an internally geared hub so that you could use a bmx chain and sprockets for strength and esthetics. I picked a three speed SRAM like Gary's for $50 on ebay. I guess I will have to wait a few more weeks to understand exactly how this freewheeling crank system works without an IPS crank.
Keep up the good work fellas, I will try to stand off to the side, not touch anything, and pay attention. :wink:
I know D is going the most complicated route, but isn't that what most of us want? :? I would think most people want to drive through the cranks, to take advantage of all the gears. Although, I would recommend an internally geared hub so that you could use a bmx chain and sprockets for strength and esthetics. I picked a three speed SRAM like Gary's for $50 on ebay. I guess I will have to wait a few more weeks to understand exactly how this freewheeling crank system works without an IPS crank.
Keep up the good work fellas, I will try to stand off to the side, not touch anything, and pay attention. :wink:
Hi etard,
well i guess compared to the rigs we are going to be running opti does seem a bit anemic, as you saw on the titans vid opti is thumped by a puma at 60v+ for acceleration however you have to consider it's acceleration against a normal mtb, which makes it pretty good, not brilliant but still head and shoulders above a normal bike.
Also opti has 9 gears - imo this isn't necessarily a good thing, the motor is weaker than what we will run but even at low power you can see in the vid the need to change gear pretty damn fast , thats why im going with 3 gears only 1st,2nd,3rd no messing about through 9 gears to get to top speed, indeed mostly i will stay in 2nd anyway, changing that quick and often mashing up and down 9 sprockets is bound to take a toll imo.
i think your sram is a good idea, i think Gary is a fan too - for me the only reason i didn't go with an internally geared hub is i wanted the reassurance of a dh hub as im going to smash it around a fair bit but for road and light trail i think the sram would be fine.
By the way super happy today, i'd been looking for a kona seat in black and blue since about three months ago when i lost an ebay bid on one, i tried to buy it new from kona but the modal i wanted stopped production in 2005
However just before bed last night i checked fleabay last thing and there was one in the UK for sale and buy it now!!!!
£7.50 for a Kona SDG saddle black and blue good condition SCORE!!!! 
that'll save me some money which i'll spend on a new ISIS 128mm BB - by the way does anyone have an opinion on BB's for a 68mm bb? I saw that most i looked at are for 73mm BB's but come with a spacer for 68mm fitting, elsewhere there's talk of the spacer hindering the freewheel?
Anyway there's one called the "moe" thats genuinely 68mmX128mm which i think i may go for but im undecided as the 5mm spacer could be useful if it's at the chainring end? anyone had any experience of these???
Cheers,
D
Cheers,
D
well i guess compared to the rigs we are going to be running opti does seem a bit anemic, as you saw on the titans vid opti is thumped by a puma at 60v+ for acceleration however you have to consider it's acceleration against a normal mtb, which makes it pretty good, not brilliant but still head and shoulders above a normal bike.
Also opti has 9 gears - imo this isn't necessarily a good thing, the motor is weaker than what we will run but even at low power you can see in the vid the need to change gear pretty damn fast , thats why im going with 3 gears only 1st,2nd,3rd no messing about through 9 gears to get to top speed, indeed mostly i will stay in 2nd anyway, changing that quick and often mashing up and down 9 sprockets is bound to take a toll imo.
i think your sram is a good idea, i think Gary is a fan too - for me the only reason i didn't go with an internally geared hub is i wanted the reassurance of a dh hub as im going to smash it around a fair bit but for road and light trail i think the sram would be fine.
By the way super happy today, i'd been looking for a kona seat in black and blue since about three months ago when i lost an ebay bid on one, i tried to buy it new from kona but the modal i wanted stopped production in 2005
However just before bed last night i checked fleabay last thing and there was one in the UK for sale and buy it now!!!!
£7.50 for a Kona SDG saddle black and blue good condition
SCORE!!!! that'll save me some money which i'll spend on a new ISIS 128mm BB - by the way does anyone have an opinion on BB's for a 68mm bb? I saw that most i looked at are for 73mm BB's but come with a spacer for 68mm fitting, elsewhere there's talk of the spacer hindering the freewheel?Anyway there's one called the "moe" thats genuinely 68mmX128mm which i think i may go for but im undecided as the 5mm spacer could be useful if it's at the chainring end? anyone had any experience of these???
Cheers,
D
Cheers,
D
