Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
If I was in charge this is the kind of Ads we'd be seeing. Videos too.
E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners
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Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
This is what the inside of the Stealth factory will look like if they keep ignoring my advise to revamp the line into street bikes.
Rix
100 TW
Theodore Voltaire said:
I don't know that its a flop as sales numbers are up. What I don't know is which units are selling more as they added the new legal lower powered models to the line up. I used to stay current on this stuff, but the job is requiring more of me, and I just don't have as much time.
Rix
100 TW
1abv said:
As usual, excellent pics. I am going to Check out the new Bomber and Fighter hopefully soon.
Rix
100 TW
1abv said:
It is harder to see in its natural environment then your florescent green bomber
So in going further into setting up the Kelly action....( I know its been a while..)
So I looked at my battery pack and did some calcs...
The pack is capable of 68 continuous.
The BMS is a Daly 72v/20s 60a continuous (Daly list "sparkle current" at 120+ or - 30 which I am guessing is peak).
Does anyone know what that could possible equal in rear wheel watts? I'm guessing the phase amps being around 2.5-3 multiplier (total guess BTW) so would that mean around 10,800-12,900 watts?
OR am I on crack? thanks!
So I looked at my battery pack and did some calcs...
The pack is capable of 68 continuous.
The BMS is a Daly 72v/20s 60a continuous (Daly list "sparkle current" at 120+ or - 30 which I am guessing is peak).
Does anyone know what that could possible equal in rear wheel watts? I'm guessing the phase amps being around 2.5-3 multiplier (total guess BTW) so would that mean around 10,800-12,900 watts?
OR am I on crack? thanks!
more interesting stuff.
So the CAV3 only reads amps and watts before phase amps, Across the shunt. Which means that the ca is set at 60 ah on the battery side and the instantons watts reading which gets up to 4500 watts ish, is the amp reading times the volts. It does not read phase amps sooooo how many amps do we have at the rear wheel???
more crack..
So the CAV3 only reads amps and watts before phase amps, Across the shunt. Which means that the ca is set at 60 ah on the battery side and the instantons watts reading which gets up to 4500 watts ish, is the amp reading times the volts. It does not read phase amps sooooo how many amps do we have at the rear wheel???
more crack..
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
1abv said:
I don't know the answer, but I'm interested. I have a lot of experience with high power a/c current, but I don't know squat about d/c phase current. I know that a 10g wire can barely handle 20 amps continuously on a/c. I'm guessing that since phase current is pulsing, a 10g wire can handle more than 20 amps. And since it's 3 phase d/c whatever current is on one wire will be X3 to the motor. I remember Alex saying that a 10g phase wire could handle a lot more current than I thought possible. That's all I got.
Rix
100 TW
1abv said:
Back in the day, I consulted Kepler and Allex about this very issue when building my Alpha. This what I learned from them. When you set up a controller, you need to set both battery and phase amps. Typically the ratio is 2.5. ie. 80A battery you will set 200A phase. To vary speed, the controller pumps out a variable voltage to the motor. when laboring up a steep hill at low speed you might only be pumping out 30V to the motor but under these conditions the phase amp limit will hopefully stop you killing the controller (30V x 200A = 6000W and is why you are more likely to kill controllers and motors laboring up a hill then when travelling flat out at high speed). The effect of varying the ratio is that is softens or firms up how hard the motor pulls down low. If you want a softer throttle, setting a ratio of 2 will have the desired effect.
Whatever you set the battery amp limit in the controller to is what you will pull out of the battery. Keep in mind the battery voltage is a relatively constant voltage so the load on the battery will be proportional to the set controller battery amp limit. The phase current however will be much higher depending on what speed you are doing and what load the motor is under. When I had my Adapto max E on the Alpha build, I was able to experiment with these settings. I tried Phase : DC Amps ratios from 1-1 up to 4-1 settings. There was no perceivable increase from dead stop from any setting past 2.5-1. In other words, I couldn't tell the difference between 2-5-1 and 4-1 off the line WOT. From 1-1 to 2.5-1, I could feel a little more punch off the line as the ratio difference was increased. The CA measures battery current and as such will also limit the current drawn from the battery. If the CA is set to 20A, then that is all that is available and as such the phase amps will reduce by whatever the ratio is set to. ie. 20A @ 2.5 ratio means a max of 50A to the motor phases. Anyways not sure if this answers your question, but I don't think you be on the crack
Thx for the info! That’s kinda what I was thinkin I would have to do to get the Phase amp rating on the Kelly.
So I’m getting closer to setting up the Kelly. Funny their website has gone funky. Are they still around? anyway.. I do wonder what the bombers watts are post phase.. I know it has a battery side rating but not motor.. oh well it will be interesting to see what happens when I try the Kelly. I noticed when I played w the CAV amp rating it changed the behavior of the bike.. only when I lowered it from 60 to 50 and 40. It would cut out for a brief moment on hard acceleration and the overall output would lower. When I set it above 60 it did nothing because that's the limit on the controller. Anyway.. more goodies…
Tire swap from a Michelin to Dunlop, The Michelin has better traction but the dunlop slides better (comparing the 2 tires fresh btw) and a friggin broken spoke… someone looks like they work in a coal mine..
So I’m getting closer to setting up the Kelly. Funny their website has gone funky. Are they still around? anyway.. I do wonder what the bombers watts are post phase.. I know it has a battery side rating but not motor.. oh well it will be interesting to see what happens when I try the Kelly. I noticed when I played w the CAV amp rating it changed the behavior of the bike.. only when I lowered it from 60 to 50 and 40. It would cut out for a brief moment on hard acceleration and the overall output would lower. When I set it above 60 it did nothing because that's the limit on the controller. Anyway.. more goodies…
Tire swap from a Michelin to Dunlop, The Michelin has better traction but the dunlop slides better (comparing the 2 tires fresh btw) and a friggin broken spoke… someone looks like they work in a coal mine..
Attachments
Rix
100 TW
1abv said:
So glad to see #143 back in its environment.
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
For years I rode my Bomber with the ca set to 60 amp. That's how it came from the factory. I noticed if I nailed the throttle from a stop, it always had a momentary delay in it's get along. I'm sure that's because the amps went above the 60 amp limit so the ca cut the power. After adjusting the ca setting to 65 amp I never notice the delay. My guess is the motor is not capable of pulling more than 65 amp long enough to trigger the limiter, although I usually see the peak recorded amp at about 69 amp, it doesn't do it long enough to operate the limiter. The most it can hold under hard acceleration is around around 4800w, and the voltage drops to about 76v hot off the charger. 4800 < 76 = 63 amp. I'm guessing this is all my stock motor can pull. If that's true wouldn't that mean that no matter how many amp a controller might be capable of, even if it was a 100 amp, my bike would still only pull the same 63 amp? Am I wrong about this?
Hello, I joined the Bomber chassis broken club with my #301. 
I'm going to repair it at a local moto/auto shop with a TIG welding machine.
I need to add a little piece of sheet metal, can you tell me which metal I should use to do this repair job?
Regards.
I'm going to repair it at a local moto/auto shop with a TIG welding machine.
I need to add a little piece of sheet metal, can you tell me which metal I should use to do this repair job?
Regards.
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
bigbore said:Hello, I joined the Bomber chassis broken club with my #301.
I'm going to repair it at a local moto/auto shop with a TIG welding machine.
I need to add a little piece of sheet metal, can you tell me which metal I should use to do this repair job?
Regards.
20220717_202611.jpg
The frame is made out of chromoly steel, so I think chromoly would probably be the best thing to use.
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
After a couple of years I decided to do some adjusting of my Fastrace shock. I didn't really understand how to adjust it very well, but it seems easier now that I've gotten used to the way it feels.
It only has 2 adjustments, preload, and rebound. The spring is stiffer than the stock one, and it's always rode a little on the stiff side. Over time I've been reducing the preload to the point where it sags under my weight slightly more than most people would think correct, but it has so much travel I've never bottomed it out, and I like a low ride highth.
Initially back when I bought it I adjusted it somewhere around the middle of it's 16 clicks, and left it more or less alone since then, but recently I was wondering if I might make it a little softer. The main problem I had with adjusting it was I didn't understand F-S. I understand more or less, but not how that relates to F-S.
Anyway I adjusted it all the way S. That made it ride really hard compared to the way it was before, and I didn't like it. Then I turned it all the way F, and it was really nice and soft, but kind of pogo'd along down the street. I added a couple clicks at a time toward S, and it felt better each time until I got to about 8 clicks which is close to where I've been riding with it the last couple of years. I backed down toward F a couple clicks which made it a little softer, and it rides really nice now. It uses a lot of travel when I'm riding, but still never bottoms out, and doesn't pogo much, but I'm allowing a little, because it rides so nice and soft this way. I guess I ended up about 2 clicks toward F from where I was riding the last couple of years. Now I understand F and S means Fast, and Slow.
[atkintachment=0]Fastrace.jpg[/attachment]
It only has 2 adjustments, preload, and rebound. The spring is stiffer than the stock one, and it's always rode a little on the stiff side. Over time I've been reducing the preload to the point where it sags under my weight slightly more than most people would think correct, but it has so much travel I've never bottomed it out, and I like a low ride highth.
Initially back when I bought it I adjusted it somewhere around the middle of it's 16 clicks, and left it more or less alone since then, but recently I was wondering if I might make it a little softer. The main problem I had with adjusting it was I didn't understand F-S. I understand more or less, but not how that relates to F-S.
Anyway I adjusted it all the way S. That made it ride really hard compared to the way it was before, and I didn't like it. Then I turned it all the way F, and it was really nice and soft, but kind of pogo'd along down the street. I added a couple clicks at a time toward S, and it felt better each time until I got to about 8 clicks which is close to where I've been riding with it the last couple of years. I backed down toward F a couple clicks which made it a little softer, and it rides really nice now. It uses a lot of travel when I'm riding, but still never bottoms out, and doesn't pogo much, but I'm allowing a little, because it rides so nice and soft this way. I guess I ended up about 2 clicks toward F from where I was riding the last couple of years. Now I understand F and S means Fast, and Slow.
[atkintachment=0]Fastrace.jpg[/attachment]
Attachments
SPRING RATES!
https://garage.redline360.com/spring-rate-conversion-chart-easily-convert-kgmm-to-lbsin
https://mechlabstore.it/products/tein-flex-z-coilovers-per-honda-civic-eg-inc-eg6-vti-92-95-fork-type
Last week I mounted a new set of Tein coilovers shocks on my Honda Del Sol at a racing auto/moto shop.
I asked the owner that is super expert in the shocks to check my Bomber DNM rear shock on the bench it has and described the push of the back wheel wen you pass over roots at decent speed. The result should be something similar to what 1abv did with Racetech.
Hei TV which spring rate are you using on that shock?
And 1abv which spring rate you have now on the new shock?
https://garage.redline360.com/spring-rate-conversion-chart-easily-convert-kgmm-to-lbsin
https://mechlabstore.it/products/tein-flex-z-coilovers-per-honda-civic-eg-inc-eg6-vti-92-95-fork-type
Last week I mounted a new set of Tein coilovers shocks on my Honda Del Sol at a racing auto/moto shop.
I asked the owner that is super expert in the shocks to check my Bomber DNM rear shock on the bench it has and described the push of the back wheel wen you pass over roots at decent speed. The result should be something similar to what 1abv did with Racetech.
Hei TV which spring rate are you using on that shock?
And 1abv which spring rate you have now on the new shock?
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
bigbore said:
It's 1000 lb. Stock was 850 lb
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
This is what I'm seeing locally. When talking about the off road electric bike nitch that Stealth briefly owned a long time ago, it's now totally dominated by Sur Ron. Dallas, which is not known as an electric bike haven, is lousey with Sur Ron's, and the newer Talaria's are also getting a lot of attention. Bombers are never going to compete with these bikes off road. The street is a different story. Sur Ron's are faster off the line than my bike, but then they start running out of breath right when my old 4500w gathers up it's skirt, and starts to run like a good street bike should. Of course I had to build my bike like it is now, but it corners so hard, sometimes I'm scared I'm going to pop my tires from the forces I'm putting on them. The combination of 65mm rims, Fox 40 forks, and Hook Worm tires is unreal. Considering my power train is stock, and the newer Stealth's are a lot faster, Stealth has the potential to make great street bikes, but the Bombers coming out of the factory right now don't have that much appeal to anybody.
TV the motor isn’t what’s restricting. It’s the controller that’s doing that. The motor is a dumb dumb and will take as much power that you can throw at it… until everything melts. It won’t cut out unless you do something REALLY bad.. on another note suspension tuning is a fun black hole to go down right?!!
Bigbore,
Your frame is an earlier one like mine that does not have the thicker material hence the crack. I would weld a nice fat piece of cromo to triangulate and brace. You won’t have any issues after that.
As far as the shock spring when I revalved the DNM I started at stock, went to 550 then finally went to 450. On the racetech It’s a 450 as well. I prefer a really soft and plush suspension. I don’t do big jumps, more enduro and high speed trail riding. I like to use a lot of suspension travel while riding. Racetech started off at a 700 spring that they used on another bomber..and I went lighter and lighter until it wasn’t harsh for me. Now it tracks really well and never kicks up. I would assume you would want to go a bit heavier than me. Everyone who rides my bike says it’s soft but I like it that way.
Btw this is how you break your throttle… by taking a picture and your handlebars turn.. glad I wasn’t 10 miles away from my house and it was uphill with no throttle at 9:00 at night… that would mean I would have had to pedal without a motor and call my bud with his truck…
Bigbore,
Your frame is an earlier one like mine that does not have the thicker material hence the crack. I would weld a nice fat piece of cromo to triangulate and brace. You won’t have any issues after that.
As far as the shock spring when I revalved the DNM I started at stock, went to 550 then finally went to 450. On the racetech It’s a 450 as well. I prefer a really soft and plush suspension. I don’t do big jumps, more enduro and high speed trail riding. I like to use a lot of suspension travel while riding. Racetech started off at a 700 spring that they used on another bomber..and I went lighter and lighter until it wasn’t harsh for me. Now it tracks really well and never kicks up. I would assume you would want to go a bit heavier than me. Everyone who rides my bike says it’s soft but I like it that way.
Btw this is how you break your throttle… by taking a picture and your handlebars turn.. glad I wasn’t 10 miles away from my house and it was uphill with no throttle at 9:00 at night… that would mean I would have had to pedal without a motor and call my bud with his truck…
Attachments
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
1abv said:
With a 100 amp controller, assuming the motor windings could take it, you would get more torque, but the top speed would be unchanged. With higher voltage you get more top speed. Does that sound correct?
Simple answer... Yes
Complicated answer if your battery pack draw and BMS can handle it then you are all good.. It basically about temperature then..
Do you know what your Continuous draw of your pack is and what you BMS is rated for? I'm pretty sure yours is higher then mine. You have the high discharge 18650's I think..
I'm getting all my bits together hopefully by next week to build the wiring harness for the kelly and then I'm going to experiment with what it can do. The kelly I got was the KLS7218S rated at 80 motor amps Continuous /200 peak. My battery packs BMS is at 60 so I think the controller is gonna be the limiting factor. either way it should be more powerful then stock. Continuous should be 5760wh and peak should be 14,400wh if I set it all the way up...
Complicated answer if your battery pack draw and BMS can handle it then you are all good.. It basically about temperature then..
Do you know what your Continuous draw of your pack is and what you BMS is rated for? I'm pretty sure yours is higher then mine. You have the high discharge 18650's I think..
I'm getting all my bits together hopefully by next week to build the wiring harness for the kelly and then I'm going to experiment with what it can do. The kelly I got was the KLS7218S rated at 80 motor amps Continuous /200 peak. My battery packs BMS is at 60 so I think the controller is gonna be the limiting factor. either way it should be more powerful then stock. Continuous should be 5760wh and peak should be 14,400wh if I set it all the way up...
