Fat Bike BBSHD Build for Epic Offroad Adventures

The big brown truck stopped at my place today, though I'm not home yet I know my new Bullet is waiting....as soon as I get some frame measurements I'll order the battery and BBHD. Should we just start a Bullet thread? I ordered the small frame BTW, I'm 5'8" on a good day, and shrinking.
 
hey hey, we need a video now MoutainTime! :wink:
 
I got it yesterday, got it mounted, got the chain back on (seems to shift fine, at least while on the bike stand) and got my battery box material brake formed today. If I hadn't had to work today it would have been rideable. Moving right along, making notes and taking pictures as I go, I'll check back in after the first ride, being my second build now, it's much easier! Tomorrow, depending again on work, I route cabling, mount the display, and start the battery box.

Mine is a 15.5" frame BTW, so my choice of battery was limited somewhat. I had a vague idea I might keep the Bullet in the box I built on the crane for the Trail Viper, and other then the Bullet being too tall, too long, and too wide, it fits perfect :p That's cool, as about the time I figured that out, I did research on hot rodding the TV (another ongoing project, waiting on my controller, but the Bullet comes first) and will build the Bullet without the inherent compromises that the Montague folder/plane combo and the folder/crane ride TV. So yeah, I'll have 3 E-bikes..... but all will be 52 volt, and the Bullet and Viper will have the same exact battery box for the Panasonic 11.5 6.5 lb. high performance battery. The plane/Montague combo uses a 11.5 ah Samsung.

So, I didn't agonize too long over maxing out the Bullet battery build, if I want max range, I'll borrow a battery from another of my rides and carry it in a backpack, so, if my math is correct, 23 ah of 52 volt juice for now, as I only have 2 batteries and 3 bikes. If I get a third that will give me 34.5 ah max, riding with one and carrying two! In the meantime, most of my riding will easily be handled by a single battery, so nice and light. I have been thinking of some epic back country trips, ones that I've flown low level in the past and now I'm thinking they would be fun to hit on the right E-bike. Here's one:http://www.bigskyfishing.com/scenic-drives/gravelly-range.php
 
Just made a test run, all seems to be well! Now to finish a few details, then I'll post some pictures and some details specific to my 15.5" frame. Weight appears to be 56+ lbs. 11.5 Ah Panasonic 6.5 lb. battery.
 
Excellent thread with a ton of great tips... I have learned so much in the past few days about building my own eBike, but have tons more to learn. I find threads like this to be the most helpful source of information!

I'm looking at building my first eBike and right now leaning heavily towards a BD Sturgis Bullet -> BSSHD -> Mighty Mini 30T chainring.

A few questions:

  • I was leaning towards a Luna Shark 11.5AH 52V battery pack instead of the bigger 20AH packs, mostly to keep the weight down. Any idea what kind of flat/commute and trail/climbing range this would give me? i know there are a thousand variables, but any feedback would be appreciated. Also, Does anybody know for sure that the Shark pack will fit on the Sturgis (medium, 17.5) frame?

  • I was also a bit tempted to splurge and get the new titanium Sturgis Bullet. Although the frames have the same name and listed as having the same geometry, there are definitely going to be some differences between a hydroformed aluminum frame and a round-tube titanium frame. I'm wondering if the fitment around the bottom bracket, chainstay clearance, etc. will be easier or harder with the titanium frame. Has anybody here seen the titanium Sturgis in person?

  • Sounds like the consensus is to go for the 120mm bottom bracket width motor setup and spacers as needed, at least with the aluminum frame?
 
Buy a frame that will fit a triangle pack. You'll be glad you did. If not now later. Having 20Ah and charging to 80% for longevity and 100% for long rides is, well Stellar!. From now on it's frames first. First for best fit for me and second and equally important room for 20Ah.
 
When I made my order with Luna, they did not list a 100 mm as being available, or at least in stock. So I opted for the 120, figuring I could always shim it out as needed, plus it made the difference in the clearance being adequate between the cranks and the chain stays. A 100 mm would need offset crank arms I'm pretty sure. I ended up with just a hair of clearance between the motor and the chain stay, 1/16", I didn't like the thought of it being up tight against it. That's a 11.5 Panasonic battery, just 6.65 lbs! I have another identical to it for the Trail Viper, and also a 11.5 Samsung for the Montague. This should give me lots of options range wise, depending on the days "mission." I really like not packing a bigger battery around for my in town zipping around of just a few mile. epic rides though will require an epic battery, or several less then epic ones.

My 15.5" Bullet, after a few brief (AND exhilarating) test rides on the thawing out gravel road (I need fenders/mudguards.....) I live on, has been at my (what's the male term for someone who sews, seamstress can't be right) guy who works for me on the crane from time to time, and also knows how to use a sewing machine (tailor, that's it), getting a stealthy cover for the frame mounted battery box. The last short ride I took, about 1/4 mile, I rode up a short steep slope, about 20 %, in 2 or maybe 3rd gear, and it just ate it up without even breathing hard :twisted: I will post some pics and my building experience thoughts when I get it back and have time. I have had an unusual super busy time on the crane, good thing as I have been spending money on E bikes big time, being busy and the crap not quite winter and not quite spring weather has also slowed things down. I did not use the brake sensors, partially because I wasn't sure how to install them, and mostly because I am riding my Montague with PAS 0, and using the thumb throttle as needed. Backing off the throttle when shifting has quickly become second nature and even with the 10 speed rear cassette and no brake sensor on the Bullet shifting so far has been trouble free.

Here is one shot, (the prerequisite one without using a kickstand) with the battery box still uncovered and the wiring just temporary. I think the fact that I have a 15.5" frame makes those tires look even bigger, ha, ha! That hill in the background is 9275' and I live at 5600', with the valley below at 4500', so lots of vert terrain, for better or for worse. The Bullet presents no particular issues with a Bafang conversion, though I must say my Montague folder came in lighter (not a fat tire so no surprise) and the frame layout on it allows the motor to tuck up super high. I have not yet have all three of my E bikes in the shop at one time, the Trail Viper (currently undergoing an upgrade to 52 volts and a new controller), the Montague, and the Bullet. I did find the time to make a bike rack, working off my spare tire rack on the rear door of my 2000 Toyota RAV4, as it occurred to me that I had no way to get it into town to my tailors shop. Having two folders makes a bike rack somewhat archaic, but once I completed the simple RAV4 rack, I realized I could easily fit both the Viper and the Montague, folded, inside, AND the Bullet on the rack. This will be great fun, being able to not only show others my new E ride but also put their asses on two others I just happened to have along. I didn't plan this or realize I had this option until it just kind of fell into place, my first use of this new capability will be with my neighbors who live up the hill. I'll show up at their workplace in town around noon, and say "let's go to lunch", and break the bikes out. I'll supply the rides, and they get to buy me lunch. I post a few more specific details on my build in a few days.

I just saw tomjasz's post re: frame size and how it effects battery selection. I have to agree, somewhat. I was sort of bummed out when I first had the bike in front of me and started playing around with different battery options. I really had my heart set on a 20 AH'er, (as a kid I had a 5 gallon gas tank on my mini bike, nowadays I have a 8 to 10 hrs duration on my homebuilt plane, I've always liked lot's of range in anything) and even made a cardboard mock up of Luna's 20 AH cube, but no way would it fit. Only after grudgingly ordering the 11.5'r did I get the brain fart of having the versatility of having in effect a 11.5, 23, or even a 34.5 AH battery as needed, while not have to lug around a heavier battery all the time, even when it was not needed. The only disadvantage to this approach is it costs more, but screw it. As a very crude way of determining how far "out" one can go, running out one pack and then switching to an fresh identical one of the same size should make it pretty easy to get a handle on range capability. I was at the upper range, 5'8", suggested for a 15.5 frame, according to the info I had, and really didn't even think of the the effect on battery selection, if I had to do it over, I'd go the next size up I guess. But being stuck with what I have, I think I stumbled on a pretty good alternative with a lot of options. BTW: I did determine that a 11.5 sharkpack would NOT fit on the 15.5" frame.
 
Thanks for that brake sensor info, I'll go ahead and install one on my left side, to give clutch like shifting as you mention, what we're used to.

I pretty much covered my battery install on the 15.5" frame here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12847&start=450#p1160208

A few other details on my build: I broke down and bought the tool from California E-bike that fits the big hub nut on the Bafang motor. Like any tool, once the purchase price is forgotten it gives pleasure when used, the first build I used an old screwdriver and a hammer! For spacers on my motor's right side, I scrounged around in the junk drawer and found just the right size of aluminum plate . Then, I discovered that using 2 different hole saws, 1 1/8" and 2", in the proper order, gave me a just right sized spacer. I had the hole saws, and didn't want to wait to order some in or have some made elsewhere, and the finished part is as good as "store bought". Those with a good collection of hole saws in the shop may want to use this method.

I used a piece of old mudflap material between the motor and the frame, I have a collection of different thickness ones, and the stuff comes in handy from time to time!

As usual, my collection of aircraft tools and parts came in handy, mostly when building the battery box. I easily achieved the correct spacing on the attach bracket on the left side by using AN thick and thin flat washers (standard aircraft hardware, they make two different thicknesses of washers so you can get the right amount of thread past the nut, not too much and sure as hell not too little), that took about 2 minutes. In fact the entire build, less the battery box and cogitating on wiring runs, zip tie locations and other minor details, took less then 4 hrs probably, there is really not much to it. The battery box took three times as long, but it's working perfect and I'm real happy with it.

My next move is to get some kind of rear rack, and have it also double as a fender, so I don't get the racing stripe up my back when riding in less then dry conditions. Probably a zip tied scrap of thin lexan to the bottom of the rack would work fine. Then a way good mechanical way to carry a spare battery, or even two (what the heck, I have three, and can only ride one bike at a time), maybe one on the rear rack, one in a back pack, or maybe one on a front rack or the handlebars, or even just secured to the horizontal frame tube. Lot's of options there, especially when they are as small and light as the 11.5 AH ones are.

I'm meeting with my sew guy today, if he hasn't started the stealth cover yet I'll take it back and start riding it, I'm tired of waiting...... Not really much more to relate on the build that JPLabs didn't cover earlier, and with lot's of pictures no less, good job on that. I'll report back when I get some for real riding in on the slopes, that are rapidly drying out, finally.
 
vest.jpg
Here is a photo of what I was using to protect my battery pack from rain. I may hide that fact that there is a battery in the main triangle as well but I don't think it would fool anyone in the know. Its an old snorkeling noepreme vest. It just zips on in place. Looks a little getto but if you are just wanting to conceal the fact you have an electric even an old jacket zipped in place around the battery and the sleeves tied together to tidy :) things up would maybe make a passer by think you are just not wanting to wear you jacket. Just an idea in case it saves you money getting a custom enclosure. LIke I say, it looks terrible but it may do the trick if you are into the look
 
I LIKE the look, part of a good anti theft policy is not making something too pretty. You got me thinking, this may be a case of simpler being better, or " crude but primitive" being the way to go. I'll look around the shop and see what I have laying around. Yesterday on the Montague while riding 8 miles across town to get to where the crane was parked, I passed my first cyclist! A young good looking college age woman, we were both fighting the headwind, she more then me of course. I was going 22, she15 if that. She's probably still wondering how that old fart stays in such great shape (I was pedaling). I'm sure she didn't have time to see the Ebikeness of my ride. So yeah, stealthy as possible has many advantages.
 
Your battery box looks great!

I am now intrigued with what I can cover my frame with, for stealthier parking. Interesting thought. Maybe a muddy jacket, sure. Good idea.
 


And....done! Luckily my "tailor" had not gotten anything done yet, so after letting him take a ride on the E Bullet (he doesn't drive, at all, no car, something about serving in the first Gulf War changing his thinking about oil, he has a big buck mountain bike he rides everywhere to get around) and the ride experience gave him something to think about. He has plenty of cash, maybe he'll go over to the dark side, we'll see. Anyway, Wayne's comment about the "sleeves of an old jacket tied up" got me thinking of an old down vest that is so well used I only wear around the shop, and rarely at that. It took about 30 seconds to slip it into place, zip it, and then with two lengths of paracord secure it, while squnching the excess tight. Frigging perfect, even better after I make up a couple light web straps with the snap plastic fasteners. I still have access to my breaker too. It also serves as extra padding on the frame tube, if/when needed. And of course can still be worn if needed, perfect solution! My new helmet is on the bars, covering up the Bafang display, with the battery covered that display stood out even more, the helmet or even a rag will cover it when needed. Looking at this picture, I need to blackout the Luna logo, sorry Eric. This makes me feel sufficiently stealthy, on to deciding what type of rear rack to install.
 
Hey Craneplaneguy, good choice on the down jacket. People will be thinking no wonder he has taken his jacket off trying to pedal that bike around with such big tires on it! :) I think this is the first time anyone from this forum has taken any advice from me, this may go to my head.
Also for your consideration, how about a nice empty pack of Kool's to slip over and hide your Bafang display. cools.jpg
 
rsz_img_20160311_110938492.jpgIt occurred to me that if I could lash my snowboard to my Camelback, I could jump on the Bullet and ride up to the ski area above my place. This is a funky smaller area, but steep and challenging, don't think big time high dollar Sun Valley type of place! This would be my first ride of any distance on the Bullet, 1.5 miles down a rolling up/down dirt road, to a paved road, with a 1400' elevation gain with slopes of 12% in long stretches. I tried real hard to keep the speed down to 10 mph or so, as the aerodynamics of the snowboard strapped to my back were not the best. I was in a lower gear of course but not the lowest, as I really wanted to avoid lugging the motor, and I couldn't keep up pedaling so I let the motor do all the work. I could have gone much faster then 10 mph even up the steepest parts, but was in no hurry, had the board on, and wanted to see the effect of low speed on the range. Once I started up the steeper parts I only "ghost pedaled" (love that term) as I was wearing my snowboarding boots and dressed for the top of the mountain, 8800', and really didn't want to sweat too much, or at all. The ghost pedaling was for the benefit of the few people that drove by, just for the hell of it. Halfway up, going past a neighbors place, I saw him out and turned in his driveway and he took this shot. He had noticed the speed I was going by and it got his attention, NO ONE, no non E assisted biker anyway, by the time they get to this stretch of the road, is making that kind of speed while sitting upright in the saddle. More a head down grind, pumping away at about 4 or 5 mph, especially if they have started from the valley, another 1,000' below my starting point. I let him take it for a spin and he was super impressed, as was another neighbor I met earlier who was out walking his dog. I'll be taking all 3 of my Ebikes to his place at some point and let him and his wife check them out, he's a pilot also so I'll let him ride the Montague folder.

On the final switchback below the area I sped up a bit, rode through the general parking lot, up through the employee parking area, and finally up a short but steep snow bank (those fat tires really work, didn't even spin a tire) and right up to the get on point of the chairlift. :p I parked the bike up against a ski rack and walked about 10' and got on the chair lift. All I have is the stock Bafang display, but the battery indicator was still showing full, and putting a hand on the motor showed it to be not even warm, about the ambient temp outside, mid 40's. It obviously wasn't working hard.

After making a few runs it was time to go, down hill most of the way, but I started getting a aero wobble much above 25 mph due to the screwed up air flow caused by the board on my back, so I bailed off the paved road before the long 12% straight away (where I've hit over 50 mph on other non power bikes), and took more advantage of the fat tires and rode directly down through the fields, using the scattered snowbanks to keep my speed under control. Once back home, the battery was at 52.2 vdc after the 8 mile round trip with the 1400' climb and descent. I started with a full charge, so 58.2. I am very encouraged by this first outing, this thing will actually be a pretty good little trail bike that will have some decent range on the trails near my place, most of which don't have 1400' of gain but more up and down. I'd pedal more also, as I wouldn't be wearing winter clothing, not to mention the boots. No issues at all with anything, it's working great right out of the box, time will tell but so far this is a great ride.
 
I've made 3 more rides up, all through the dirt and snow as much as possible, today in 3 " of new snow plus heavy fog. I been leaving a spare car at the area with my board in it so I don't have to pack it up on the bike. Everyone who sees this thing comments on the noise, or lack of it. I'm getting pretty good at popping controllable wheelies, that's always a crowd pleaser. I was able to ride 3/4's of the way up the stairs in the background of the one shot (when the area was closed so no one around) before the front tire started bouncing around too much, I may try it again, and if I do I'll try and get it on video maybe. This thing is a blast and working great.rsz_img_20160317_095319022.jpg
 

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I have the Sturgis Bullet in 15.5 inch frame and found that the shark pack indeed fits. It will not fit the dolphin packs, but the shark packs, being slimmer, fit just fine. It was quite a relief after reading this post. I almost returned the bike in exchange for the 17.5 inch version but thought I'd give it a try before doing so. I am in the SF Bay Area close to Matt at Empowered Cycles so I was able to stop by and try the shark pack on for size. We also determined that the 100mm BBSHD fit this frame better than the 120mm using an offset crank on the left side. The 120mm would have required lots (about 20mm) of shims and we would have wound up with non-symetric cranks as the left side is about 3/4 of an inch further out than the right.

I cant tell you how relived I was to find that the frame fit the shark pack as I didnt want to deal with mounting the pack on a rack or in a triangle bag. I am buiding two more of these bikes in the coming weeks and those bikes are arriving tomorrow. I would have been dealing with the return of three of these bikes if the shark pack did not fit.
 
Good to hear that, it looked so tight I didn't want to take the chance, especially with the cost of shipping the batteries to start with!

My homemade container is working out real well, super solid and I like the fact that all three of my bikes have 3 separate batteries so I can swap and borrow them. I also like not having the weight and bulk of a bigger battery for all my shorter rides, especially as the range of the 11.5 ah pack I have is so much better then I thought it would be, I can't wait until I make a trip with all three, I've got several epic rides in mind.

The Bullet is holding up great so far, 150 miles of trail riding for so far. Here's one of the rougher stretches, it also has some real steep parts that are this rough. It's real nice having the low speed torque to be able to stand on the pegs (oops, I mean the pedals) and enduro your way up while picking your way around the bigger rocks. I did have to carry it across a few streams that I have ridden dirt bikes through, I was a little spooked about the 12" of fast flowing water :shock:
 
im glad to hear that the bike is working out well. That's quite a trail you have there. BTW, what kind of range are you getting with your 11.5AH battery. I have a 11.5ah 52volt shark pack on the way. My other mountain bike with a 13.5ah 52 volt pack gets at least 25-30 miles with lots of hills (on the road though as I havent tested it on trails yet)

Just today, I rode 28 miles with 2950 feet of ascent and the pack voltage ended at 47.8 volts on my pack. I will see how many amp hours go back into the pack tonight as I recharge it with the Cycle Satiator. Based on my voltage/capacity tables, I suspect it will take around 11AH.

Update: The battery took 10.65 amp hours (586 watt hours) to fully charge) doing the math, it works out to 21 watt hours per mile. I always pedal and seldom use the throttle except to speed up or get across the street after a stop. My average speed was 16MPH. Some of the hills were very steep and like Craneplane, lots of ups and lots of downhill riding.
 
I have no accurate range estimates yet, too varied of terrain (steep up and then steep down) to be relevant, as far as stating X amount of miles, but it's enough to thoroughly scratch the "I want to go for a ride" itch! Couple hours..... Lifting the 62 lb. bike over a fallen tree late yesterday I was glad to have the 6.5 lb. 11.5 AH battery. I am really looking forward to having my theory of carrying 2 or even 3 batteries being a viable option on longer rides, while enjoying the light weight of a single smaller battery on local rides. Using up three batteries on one ride is going to thoroughly kick my ass, pretty sure of that.

I just realized, my thinking on having 2 or 3 smaller batteries instead of one large is similar to the way I have my back country plane set up. I can "run out" the main tank (not really, but get real low) and then switch over to my 9 gallon ferry tank, then when that runs out I still have 3 gallons in the header tank. I burn less then 4 GPH, and all tanks have sight gauges so no guesswork involved. This has the effect of giving me more range as I have a better idea, a more accurate idea, of how much fuel I am using. I can see running two batteries to depletion, and by then, based on the type of terrain I'm riding, by the time I plug the third in I should have a pretty good idea if I am going to make it back. I also like the idea of stashing a depleted battery (while going uphill) to pick up on the way back while going down, I can see that happening.
 
Alan B said:
Good to know about the packs fitting.

Welcome to ES to SteveFCA.

We're a bit to the North of Matt, have been to his shop a couple of times, a good vendor and very helpful.

Thanks Alan. I agree, Matt is very knowledgeable and helpful. I had a 120mm BBSHD on order but Matt showed me what the 120 looked like on the bike versus the 100. The 100 makes everything better (chainline, crankarm symetry, minimal spacers (one to be exact on the drive side). It was also very helpful to be able to install the shark pack to confirm that it fits. It is very tight so I can see why Craneplane thought it wouldnt work. I was hoping to get the dolphin pack to fit as I already own two of those but not cigar. Its not even close with the 15.5 inch frame. I'll post a photo of the completed build soon.
 
Just got back in, and with the trip meter showing exactly 10 miles of mostly 3 to 1st gear riding when not coasting, and pedaling the entire way in PAS 1 to 2 with a few times of three and one super steep rough stretch of rocks where I was up on the pegs and just throttling my way up at about 4 mph. I started off with a 100% charge, and showed 51.2 volts a few minutes after shutting her down. Probably 2,000' vert total, there is no level, it's all up or down when crossing the canyons.

I had a spare battery with me, again, and again, didn't need it

I had to ford 5 creeks, with 2 of them with water up to almost my knees. My technique was to roll the front tire and pick the ass end up by the seat, the water is moving fast enough that getting swept off my feet was a small concern, it was COLD also. This ride took roughly 2 hrs, with a couple breaks, one to remove a stick from the chain. This trail is very rough in places and am pretty sure most would consider it an 8 out of 10 for difficulty. Dirt bikers that is, no MTBR's ride this trail, they use the wussy groomed trails in town, not that there's anything wrong with that. If my Bullet breaks I'll join them, so far so good. I consider this decent range for this type of trail, once on the forest type roads it will be a lot more.
 
SteveFCA said:
Alan B said:
Good to know about the packs fitting.

Welcome to ES to SteveFCA.

We're a bit to the North of Matt, have been to his shop a couple of times, a good vendor and very helpful.

Thanks Alan. I agree, Matt is very knowledgeable and helpful. I had a 120mm BBSHD on order but Matt showed me what the 120 looked like on the bike versus the 100. The 100 makes everything better (chainline, crankarm symetry, minimal spacers (one to be exact on the drive side). It was also very helpful to be able to install the shark pack to confirm that it fits. It is very tight so I can see why Craneplane thought it wouldnt work. I was hoping to get the dolphin pack to fit as I already own two of those but not cigar. Its not even close with the 15.5 inch frame. I'll post a photo of the completed build soon.

I don't see how the chain line could be better? My 120 is shimmed all on the left side, ( just a littleln the right side to attain 1/16" from other bike structure, )]0it'd be the same with a 100, no?. Crankarm symmetry is a non issue for me anyway, they are close enough to being the same on both sides. The only advantage I see is less spacer on the left? You still had enough available thread to put the big nut on? Reason I ask is a buddy (dirt bike and MB rider) may order one and I want to give him good info. NOT having enough thread to 100% engage the big nut and its keeper would bother me, I figured better bigger then too small. But if the 100 works, cool.

I finally got around to getting a presta to Schrader valve converter, so I could check my tire pressure with same low pressure I use on the planes bush tires. I'm at 7 in the front, 5.5 on the rear. Lot of drag but as cush as I can get it with all the rocks I ride on, no pinch flats yet so not too low I guess. I weigh 145-150 lbs.
 
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