Help: Need Controller Suggestions

[Thailand_scooter]

Hi everyone! I own an electric scooter retail and servicing business near Bangkok, Thailand.
The market in Thailand has been flooded with Chinese 48v and 60v electric scooters such as these:

I am looking for reliable, affordable, programmable controllers which can be used to upgrade commonly available electric scooters such as:



The second example is a typical 60v lead acid powered Chinese generic electric scooter with quality of parts being on the lower end of the spectrum, but the price is extremely low for both these types of scooters. The customers are ignorantly falling for the e-commerce deals by foreign vendors who dont have any after sales service, and coming to us for repairs and replacements of the poor quality components.

Thus, we are looking for 48v, 60v and 72v programmable controllers (with easy to understand software) to make these machines more reliable and also promote the adoption of EV in Thailand.
It would be cool if we had the ability to customize each scooters acceleration and performance according to the riders preferences. I will try to source a dozen of these controllers from China for serving my immediate customers. Its much harder for us to source from Europe or America, so if the item is available on aliexpress it would be a good fit.

I am very much a beginner in electrical systems and would also appreciate reccomendations on resources where I can train myself about the minute details of assemblying li-ion battery packs, and adding components to the scooters electrical system such as extra lights or turn signals.

Thank you!

 

[amberwolf]

Other than the rider's preferred acceleration/performance, what kind of programmability do you need them to have?

Acceleration is usually controlled by motor torque, which is fed by phase current, which in turn is fed by battery current. These are commonly available settings in many of the fully-programmable controllers, though the way they name things it is not always easy to find all the related settings in any specific software.

What kind of power levels are you looking for? Present total system watts, and the existing controller's current limit, are good starting points. If looking to increase power output, batteries may need to be replaced with more capable ones. If terrain includes long steep hills, bigger motors might also be needed. (short bursts of higher power are usually ok for a given sized motor, but longer sustained higher power can overheat them).

Low-power controllers are relatively easy to find (Grin Tech's Phaserunner/baserunner/frankenrunner, for instance, as well as numerous VESC variants). Higher power controllers that are good quality and customizable/easily programmable, etc. are less common until you get to the expensive ones, and some like Sevcon are very hard to setup, and will have to be tuned to each different motor that is used.

Extensive customizability is typical of FOC controllers, but they are not usually easy to setup simply because there is so much to customize. Easier-to-setup controllers don't usually have the same amount of customizability or number of options.

I don't know of any of the aliexpress-available controllers that have good easy to use software (even if the controllers are usable), and most of the software has terrible naming conventions making it difficult to figure out what parameters actually do (if there are any manuals for the software, they are usually as bad or worse than the software itself).

Ones with good software that's easy to understand are rare; VESC-based types are probably the best compromise; they are open-source so the software to setup the controller or the controller's internal software coudl be customized by a programmer for a specific purpose.

Some of the aliexpress-available programmable controllers with extensive info here on the forums are Votol, Nanjing FarDriver, and APT, but they all have significant negative feedback in various threads.

Kelly is another programmable option, that has better support, but I'm not sure if the hardware or software is that much better.

 

[E-HP]

The second example is a typical 60v lead acid powered Chinese generic electric scooter with quality of parts being on the lower end of the spectrum, but the price is extremely low for both these types of scooters.

What are the power requirements for a scooter like that?

 

[eee291]

You need a controller that has 12V brake input and there are not many programmable controllers that have this feature, the ones that do are difficult to program.
VESC has no 12v inputs, it would need a custom hardware solution.

In my experience, Kelly has the smallest learning curve but lacks some features like field weakening, which isn't a dealbreaker for people who just want to ride.
Don't program higher than 80% current If you want it to last long, so maybe buy a size bigger than you actually need.
Once you get the hang of it, you can install and set up a controller in under 30 minutes.

 

[amberwolf]

The brake input issue can be dealt with using a relay. The relay coil would be wired in parallel with the brake lights, so that whenever the brake lever is pulled it will energize the coil as well as light the brake lights. Then the NO and COM contacts are wired to the controller's brake input wire pair.

There are relay boards available that can be used or modified to use this way, to avoid having to hand-solder wires on the relays directly (the boards have screw-down terminals), such as these

https://www.amazon.com/PACK-AMP-Waterproof-Relay-Harness/dp/B074FSZWVT/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=DC+12V+Relay&qid=1678223069&sr=8-3

, but they are not waterproof so would need to be protected or potted.

Or standard automotive relays like these can be used

https://www.amazon.com/PACK-AMP-Waterproof-Relay-Harness/dp/B074FSZWVT/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=DC+12V+Relay&qid=1678223069&sr=8-3

for a waterproof solution. (this is what I'd use just because it's simpler and possibly cheaper, even though you don't need high current relays, and the relay itself is very easy to source and replace if it ever fails...I use this general type of automotive relay for stuff on my SB Cruiser trike for switching lighting during braking--the opposite of what you need but works either way).