I'm down a rabbit hole

[Drunkskunk]

I like how you got the controller to fit neatly behind the seatpost. What kind of controller it that?

Thanks. I think it's a 9 FET greentime, but I have no idea. it came with the motor.

 

[E-HP]

I don't care about being a speed demon but going 25mph is nice through the residential zones. I'll probably be doing short 2 mile stints but having the ability to go 20 miles once in awhile is a good mark.

The battery seems to be the biggest hole. It looks like you can buy some cheap stuff from china all day but it's a gamble and a half. It kinda looks like you get what you pay for in this realm. So is EM3ev the best option here? I think I need a 48v at least 10ah pack. Looking for quality for cheap. I think I'm pretty much going to strap the battery to the rear rack.

The future upgrades I'm looking to are hydraulic brakes, sturmey archer 3 speed and fattier tires.

I'd go with what you feel is best, since it sounds like all you need to something to putt around on, and ride a couple of miles and back. The requirements aren't that great.

Take the feedback into consideration, and incorporate that into your planning. If you go with the folder, you'll still have fun, because ANYTHING with two, or four wheels, that's powered is fun. Just consider that you may find the same issues other have with them, so don't over-invest on parts that you can't re-use on another platform. If I were to start out again, but not trying to build an ultimate on my first kit, I'd invest in a really good controller that supports a wide range. Don't spend a lot on the battery, since you'll want more on the next bike, which may not be a folder. And you'll want more volts anyway.

 

[glockjs]

Whelp. I pulled the trigger. Thanks again for the feedback. Not sure what or who touched some of you guys about folding bikes but sorry you feel that way. Although if this works out well in a few years I'll highly consider a full frame Mt. bike with quick release wheels. I got that out of this thread.

For now I got:

That Zizzo Forte direct https://zizzo.bike/products/forte and actually went with the pinkish color :O $430 shipped.

Went with a BBS02 48v 750w with the plans of hopefully under watting the bike. I bought the cable and everything! Lol. I think it's too much for the platform but at the same time it looks like it's easier to come down than go up. If the frame doesn't work out in the end this is a part I can move. Went with pswpower for $444 shipped.

I gambled a little bit with the battery. Picked up a UPP via ali 48v 11.6ah rear rack with "LG/Samsung" for $335 shipped. If it works out that's awesome but if it fails that's on me.

A wee bit nervous here but hopefully it all comes together smooth. Hopefully the extra costs will only be from minor tools, gaskets and dielectric. Hopefully...

Thanks again for the feedback. It was helpful!

 

[dequinox]

That zizzo looks really close in design to the expressway, so I think it will do well enough. Bbs02 is usually a solid bet. I'm not sure on the battery... I'm not up to speed on offerings from ali. Let's see pictures when you're done, and good luck with the assembly! There are lots of tutorials on the tube... I think... :lol:

 

[dogman dan]

I just wondered what made a folder good for you. We have a guy who takes his ebikes on his very small airplane. He loves his folding fat bike. Perfect for his needs. But you never would say what your needs really were.

I live on a third of an acre, with more garage square footage than house size. I don't need a folder to store a bike, so I favor the strongest possible frames. I've had weak frames start wobbling at 15 mph when a battery and motor are strapped on. We just wanted you to not buy the cheapest folder you could find, vs a much stronger non folder for the same price.

'Looks like you bought one that is designed for more than a 110 pound rider, so that is a very good choice.


Re the battery, I have some history with ali express battery bargains. Charge it outside the house.

 

[markz]

^Thats what scary about buying a folding bike for heavy weights. I've pondered it because I wanted to go on The Dog (Greyhound) bus, I doubt even the Montague Paratrooper folding bike would stand up. I've come to the conclusion that I'd have to custom make a full suspension bike, so I can take the rear half off and throw it in a large suitcase. Custom make a FS because no standard FS is sufficient. I'd personally use motorcycle rear shock, beef up and plate the steel welds on the Strong GTS.
http://veloelectriquequebec.forum-canada.net/t102-velo-electrique-strong-gt-s210-batterie-garantie-6-mois

 

[Chalo]

That "heavyweight" folder still has the usual cheap-folder gate type hinge in the middle. Hopefully it's more substantial than the run of the mill, but you'll have to check it regularly to see that it's staying good and tight.

Would you drive a car whose front and rear halves were kept attached by a single hinge pin? Just something to think about.

I'm guessing you didn't test ride it back-to-back with a real bike in your size. Did you test ride it at all? Do you buy one-size pants online and hope for the best?

Some folks can learn from the counsel of others who have relevant experience, and some can't. You'll figure it out, though.

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

add a downtube to the frame, and weld it in place.

rong agin.
oldskool biplane tech.

 

[Chalo]

add a downtube to the frame, and weld it in place.

rong agin.
oldskool biplane tech.

That's cool and all, but the downtube has to handle a lot of torsion and lateral beam loading at the bottom bracket. A wire can't do that. That bike will still wrench the bejesus out of its fold hinge when you pedal it.

 

[Aquakitty]

What about the Raleigh Twenty hinge? We rode our modified Raleigh Twenties halfway down US fully loaded (no ebike though). They are nice and stiff but there's no doubt the cockpit size is tight. I also built my own wheels. I don't know what the Chinese folders are like though.

 

[markz]

Not ideal, but why not grab a full suspension that is easy to dis/assemble.

That is what I will be doing with my Strong GTS once I fix the shock mount with Treatland.tv's brand new suspension coils, made for scooters but I am heavy

Meant for putting in a large luggage bag for the bus, airline and saving space in the suv for long road trips. But for that, a bike rack without the weight added with battery, motor would suffice too for transporting ebike with automobile.

2 bolts, and a new chain quick connect!
https://youtu.be/o1r8gpPLJhA?t=97

 

[Chalo]

What about the Raleigh Twenty hinge? We rode our modified Raleigh Twenties halfway down US fully loaded (no ebike though). They are nice and stiff but there's no doubt the cockpit size is tight. I also built my own wheels. I don't know what the Chinese folders are like though.

Torsional forces work through the flat plates of the Twenty's hinge, rather than racking the pin. That's good. The bike was godforsaken and awful, though. If I had one, I'd recycle it.

 

[Ozzzz]

Iv'e seen several frame hinge failures posted online, most from a batch of Tern bikes. There, the welds weren't stuck, the weld and entire hinge came away. One was a hinge side pin coming loose. Iv'e also read of a stem hinge breaking.

Nipped on the nutsac or broken and bruised i'd imagine there would be pleanty online. There don't seem to be many?
Yet?

I'm sure there's a better way than a folding steerer, that has me. It could be splined, one-piece and pinned/removable (or something)?

 

[dogman dan]

Hinge not welded good is not a "folder" problem, so much as a quality control issue. There have been other issues, heavy cargo bikes with forks that folded for example.

At least he did not buy a bike intended for a teen, that weighs 110 pounds.


I'm still curios why he wanted it to fold, like if he wanted to fly commercial with it, hes going to be frocked on the battery flying.

 

[markz]

Make a custom "folder" bicycle, I would just split two bikes in half at the seat tube, then weld on some flat plate and use quality bolts.

These hinges look neat
https://www.designboom.com/readers/folding-bike-by-philip-crewe/

http://moto-rdesign.blogspot.com/2012/02/phils-folding-bike.html

Better yet, have a telescopic top and bottom tube, no triangle but a square, slide in, bolt down.
https://www.bicycledesigner.com/bicycles/custom-welded-square-frame-display-bicycle.html

 

[RunForTheHills]

Make a custom "folder" bicycle, I would just split two bikes in half at the seat tube, then weld on some flat plate and use quality bolts.

These hinges look neat
https://www.designboom.com/readers/folding-bike-by-philip-crewe/

http://moto-rdesign.blogspot.com/2012/02/phils-folding-bike.html

Better yet, have a telescopic top and bottom tube, no triangle but a square, slide in, bolt down.
https://www.bicycledesigner.com/bicycles/custom-welded-square-frame-display-bicycle.html

They make couplers specifically for breaking apart a bike to pack it for travel. They are called S&S couplers:

http://www.sandsmachine.com/

 

[markz]

Those were the ones I was thinking of, read about them years ago on this forum. Back then they werent available to the public, only manufacturers. Looks like now they can retrofit a bike with S&S Couplers.
https://www.bantambicycles.com/ss-couplers

s&s couplers, new frames:

$650 Single bike frame, two couplers

$1950 Tandem frame, six couplers
s&s couplers, retrofits:

$700 Single bike frame, two couplers

$2100 Tandem bike frame, six couplers

There may be an additional charge for some frames, depending on oddly sized or shaped tubes. To be determined on a case by case basis.
travel accessories:

$430 Standard hard case, 26"x25"x10" allowable on most airlines w/o oversized baggage fees

$20 Spanner wrench

$32 Cable disconnects, set of three (one brake, two derailleur)

$16 S&S approved coupler grease

$55 Frame tube cover pads, for a single bike

$160 Frame tube cover pads, for a tandem

They make couplers specifically for breaking apart a bike to pack it for travel. They are called S&S couplers:
http://www.sandsmachine.com/

 

[markz]

^

Prices do not reflect cost of repainting your frame. There will be an additional charge for removing/reinstalling components. We are currently only able to do work on steel bicycle frames. And we will generally not perform work upon frames that have been chromed.

 

[RunForTheHills]

Those were the ones I was thinking of, read about them years ago on this forum. Back then they werent available to the public, only manufacturers. Looks like now they can retrofit a bike with S&S Couplers.
https://www.bantambicycles.com/ss-couplers

s&s couplers, new frames:

$650 Single bike frame, two couplers

$1950 Tandem frame, six couplers
s&s couplers, retrofits:

$700 Single bike frame, two couplers

$2100 Tandem bike frame, six couplers

There may be an additional charge for some frames, depending on oddly sized or shaped tubes. To be determined on a case by case basis.
travel accessories:

$430 Standard hard case, 26"x25"x10" allowable on most airlines w/o oversized baggage fees

$20 Spanner wrench

$32 Cable disconnects, set of three (one brake, two derailleur)

$16 S&S approved coupler grease

$55 Frame tube cover pads, for a single bike

$160 Frame tube cover pads, for a tandem

Yeah, the people who spend the money on these do a lot of air travel to bike touring destinations. The S&S couplers are a small part of the cost and the ability to check the bike as regular luggage offsets the cost.

 

[Ozzzz]

I'm still curios why he wanted it to fold, like if he wanted to fly commercial with it, hes going to be frocked on the battery flying.

It's 'Love'

(aka, no sense or reason/ will either lead to many happy years or .. "Nipped on the nutsac, broken and bruised")

Unless travel involves many short stays, packing a full size bike takes relatively little time and hassle.
Looking back on flights, US domestic flights (you can fly around the world with the bike free but then pay $$ for short haul US flights), Amtrak etc. much rather have the big wheels (if not also a long tail cargo bike) to eat up the miles. I did think at one stage it would be easy to hitch a ride with a folding bike. Other than that, travel was easy enough.

It seems they are becoming more popular. I wouldn't bother folding for a car- bike. Maybe the office/security thing, I don't see how apartment living benefits much. Folding bikes niche is probably where you just can't take a solid bike (just won't fit anything else, in regulations/policy and that). At home there are some great, quiet coastal roads linked by parts of busy windy tourist roads populated by unskilled tourists. Skipping the busy bits by bus is much safer more relaxing and, in the rub, probably avoid more given deathtraps than a folding hinge.

 

[markz]

Justin says he flies with them LiGo batteries with no problems!

 

[dogman dan]

You can fly with a limited amount of battery, such as a laptop for one example. Justin I believe, flies with several people carrying the limit, then they assemble to a bike size pack once there. The newer higher capacity cells help too. You might be above the limit some, but not look like it at all. Just has to look not too big to TSA.

Just don't try to board with a 48v 15 ah pack from ali express in your carry on.


But if he had his own plane, or possibly is chartering a flight, then its up to the pilot what goes on the plane. CranePlane Guy flies all over in his own aircraft, and for him a folder is perfect.


I'd change cars though, before I got a folder just to fit in a car. Thats my personal choice. I want frames that are very stiff side to side. Build your own folder, that can be as strong as the tube you choose. The hinges are very strong, but if you want it to fold and be stiff, you have to not choose tube for lightest possible weight. mostly they do that. The one he picked looks good though, built for 300 pounds. Most bikes built for 200-250.

 

[docw009]

Justin's LiGo is a 10S-1P 98 WH pack for $140. That's a bit high for me, since I don't fly, but they might be worth it if I could keep them next to my desk indoors.

Another 20" bike I converted has no worries with frame failure. I got it a year ago when BIke Nashbar put their Sundeal Minvellos on clearance for $150. Q100H hub with 20A KT-controller & LCD3. PSWpower bottle battery. Went with front hub, because rear had an 11T cassette. I know about the Q100C, but it's a little less power I use a platform rack to transport it, but could lay it down in the back of my wagon.

Pictured with my wife's Downtube. Also a Q100H, and same controller. Using a spot welded 10S-3P pack from Shawn Mcarty who did the BatteryBlocs enclosures. These weigh 36 and 39 pounds respectively.



Most little 20" bikes are fun. Yesterday I saw a tandem with 20" wheels.

 

[RunForTheHills]

When I first started bike commuting, I bought a Brompton so I could bring it in the office and not have to leave a bike outside for the weather and the thieves. A week or two after I bought it, the office installed bike lockers. I was able to rent one and switched to riding a full sized bike instead of the Brompton. The folding bike is great for throwing in the trunk when on vacation, but I mostly use it when I drop my car off for service these days.