MAC motor worth it?

[1boris]

Why not buy direct from Mac motors?

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Mac-250w-1500w-Electric-Bike-Hub_60788509328.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normal_offer.d_title.1be8286eMS3QWz

 

[markz]

Could be anything.

I guess what I'd try to figure out is why EM3EV stopped offering MAC's, maybe its been posted here on Endless Sphere.
I remember watching a Luna Cycle video and the guy talking about the hassles of selling laced hub motors, keeping the wheel straight for shipping, packing it right and of course the customer abuse and tying up customer service lines with an untrue wheel. I see Luna does not sell any hub motors, just mid drives. Even their complete ebikes for sale are all mid drives. In Luna's past they sold the MAC hub motor, comes up on searches but in an archived sub directory.

MAC in China - http://www.macmotortech.com
This one says MAC but who knows right - https://mac.en.alibaba.com/productgrouplist-200913141/Ebike_Hub_Motor.html?spm=a2700.shop_index.88.20

 

[2old]

Eunorau used to sell a MAC (12T AIR), but it's not on their site now. They have brushless, geared, cassette motors (500w) listed, but don't specify the "T". Why isn't the MAC readily available?

They still have this one showing (MAC 8t), but it appears to be part of a bundle - and that bundle uses a controller with no display, or lead for a display.

https://eunorau-ebike.com/collections/btn-kits/products/48v1000w-mac-geared-rear-8t-cassette-hub-motor-electric-bike-kit-26-27-5-28-wheel-electric-bike-conversion-kit-45km-h

Thanks; somehow I missed that.

 

[markz]

Winding choice of 6T to 16T MAC Motor, probably the same link I gave before, Cutler MAC Shanghai. Similar logo's
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Mac-bldc-hub-motor-6T-8T_60512780782.html

8 Piece/Pieces(Min. Order)

Group buy anyone?

 

[tomjasz]

In the past, Cutler Mac shipped a "sample". One motor one time, second-order has the 8 piece limit.

 

[Bullfrog]

sorry ,didnt know they dont shipp to USA.Yes they are extremely pricey.
What about the mxus xf19c motor,i belive it is stronger and can take more power.Also you can order the speed you want.
I ordered mine from here:
MXUS EBIKE CONVERSION KIT
Claire Jin
Skype: mxus021
Mail: Claire@mxusebikekit.com
Mob: +86-13585320165
Website: mxusebikekit.com

1boris...Thank You for the info, no need to apologize. The MXUS motor looks very interesting. I will look into it.

 

[Bullfrog]

In the past, Cutler Mac shipped a "sample". One motor one time, second-order has the 8 piece limit.

Exactly...you can do a one time buy of one motor as a "sample" but your second order has an 8 item minimum. I already used my "sample" buy.

EM3ev stopped selling the MAC because they had to reduce their staff substantially due to Covid. Plus they had a local bike shop in China doing all of the wheel lacing and coordinating everything substantially added to the workload.

EM3ev is based in China and at one point was co-located with the MAC factory. My hope is that they will one day start selling the MAC again.

EM3ev was and still is my #1 choice for batteries...just wish they would offer a 20s/72v option.

 

[colsaunders2]

colsaunders2....Where did you buy your MAC and what turn "T" was it advertised to be?

I bought a "locked plate" like in your motor from EM3ev back when they were selling MACs but I have note installed it yet. I am curious to see if it works with my rear freewheel (not cassette) motor.

Just logged in for the first time in months, wasn't subscribed to replies, anyway...
I purchased from Eunorau; it's advertised as an 8T but clearly reads 11T on the motor core.

BTW, the clutchless operation is still great with the Grin Phaserunner/Baserunner and electronic freewheeling. Only caveat is that regen braking loosens the lugnuts even with proper Grin torque washers installed... a torque arm is a must at full power.

Had to rebuild the wheel last fall after breaking 6 spokes. My local bike shop recently became ebike-friendly and was happy to do the job, but it was over $150

If I had to do it again, I'd go for the GMAC with its integrated torque arm, speed sensor, and thermistor.

 

[Bullfrog]

colsaunders2....Where did you buy your MAC and what turn "T" was it advertised to be?

I bought a "locked plate" like in your motor from EM3ev back when they were selling MACs but I have note installed it yet. I am curious to see if it works with my rear freewheel (not cassette) motor.

Just logged in for the first time in months, wasn't subscribed to replies, anyway...
I purchased from Eunorau; it's advertised as an 8T but clearly reads 11T on the motor core.

BTW, the clutchless operation is still great with the Grin Phaserunner/Baserunner and electronic freewheeling. Only caveat is that regen braking loosens the lugnuts even with proper Grin torque washers installed... a torque arm is a must at full power.

Had to rebuild the wheel last fall after breaking 6 spokes. My local bike shop recently became ebike-friendly and was happy to do the job, but it was over $150

If I had to do it again, I'd go for the GMAC with its integrated torque arm, speed sensor, and thermistor.

Blue loctite on the threads cured my loosening axle nuts. The GMAC is a sweet design with the integrated torque arm...I installed a torque arm on both sides of my 12T MAC when I bought it long before the GMAC was available. It is a pain to remove the six pin connector to get the torque arm on the left side but back then I had a lot more patience :lol: . I installed two because I am running 150A phase current which means a peak torque of about 200 NM.

 

[colsaunders2]

Blue loctite on the threads cured my loosening axle nuts. The GMAC is a sweet design with the integrated torque arm...I installed a torque arm on both sides of my 12T MAC when I bought it long before the GMAC was available. It is a pain to remove the six pin connector to get the torque arm on the left side but back then I had a lot more patience :lol: . I installed two because I am running 150A phase current which means a peak torque of about 200 NM.

Believe it or not, I had Permatex blue on the hardware and it worked for only a short amount of time. Eventually both of my Grin-sourced torque washers split open as well. That was the literal breaking point that led to me hacking a V2 torque arm onto the axle - I have to check nut and hose clamp tightness regularly, but it's holding up to 80A phase, 2200W peak - not bad for the Baserunner L10.

 

[The Toecutter]

Does anyone know anywhere I could find a MAC with a 6T wind? I want one that has a functioning clutch that can decouple the motor to eliminate cogging losses when pedaling unpowered, so a GMAC won't work. I have a Milan SL velomobile that I want to put a street legal 750W/28 mph setup in. It's purpose is mainly for going up hills, because currently I can do 35 mph on just over 200W of pedaling, and can almost reach 50 mph, completely unmotorized, and I do not want cogging losses hindering my speed above the proposed 28 mph cutoff.

 

[Triketech]

Does anyone know anywhere I could find a MAC with a 6T wind?

I ordered a 10T direct from MAC several years ago about the time Paul separated from EM3. Not sure how they're handling sales today, here is a website:
http://www.macmotortech.com/product_detail/53621hr-7d-escooter-motor-14645997348610813.html

52V 14S4P battery, Phaserunner, MAC 10T pushes up to 28 MPH and reaches peak about 31 MPH freewheeling on a 26" rim.

 

[The Toecutter]

I sent them an email. Hopefully I can find one. If not, know of any good alternatives? I need something that can do at least a 9 speed freewheel or cassette, it must have the ability to freewheel and eliminate the cogging losses, and the more durable the gears/clutch, the better.

 

[tomjasz]

I sent them an email. Hopefully I can find one. If not, know of any good alternatives? I need something that can do at least a 9 speed freewheel or cassette, it must have the ability to freewheel and eliminate the cogging losses, and the more durable the gears/clutch, the better.

This from MAC. A USA customer. I haven't a response from an email I sent.


Hi Tom，

Below is email address:

henry@bikeswift.com

Thanks,

Shelley

 

[Chalo]

I need something that can do at least a 9 speed freewheel or cassette,

8, 9, and 10 speed cassettes all use the same size freehub body.

 

[Bullfrog]

Guys (that includes Gals too ),

MAC will sell you a motor (one time good deal) but you can only order once and then you have to order a minimum of eight items...I believe the eight items for your second and subsequent orders can include controllers and other similar cost items to satisfy the "eight" quantity. Mac also sells Infineon Controllers. I'd buy a battery from EM3ev if you need one.

In my opinion, the MAC is the best motor available anywhere but you do need to be aware you can over heat it if you push it too hard. About 1200 watts is the maximum continuous wattage you can use without over heating it but you can run a LOT more power to it for short periods of time without any issues regarding over heating or worrying about the gears/clutch.

Why do I think the MAC is so great...well because it will produce more torque than any motor assuming you supply the same amperage. A big Direct Drive motor can produce more torque but you have to supply considerably more amperage for it to do it.

Talking with Justin at Grin Tech, he has ran a MAC/GMAC as high as 150C for long periods of time on his dyno without any degradation and I have done the same thing on the road. I would not recomend exceeding 150C.

I have also reprogrammed an Infineon controller to supply 60A battery and 180A motor/phase current and I have never had a problem with the gears or the clutch. I do grease the gears with Mobil I SHC 100 grease by covering the ring gear teeth with grease when the motor is new and then I don't add any more grease for a looong time.

 

[micmav]

Power not off even though LCD switch is.... I found cutting between black wire and torque sensor and fitting a on /off switch stopped the treacle like drag on the motor and rode like normal bike when it was switched off. I hope this helps. Happy trails

 

[markz]

MAC might not be worth it if you overload the motor with to much overall weight whether that be by body weight and or cargo weight.

Also to dig at the comment someone made about the MAC being the best motor.
Best motor for what exactly?
Every style of ebike motor setup has their advantages and disadvantages.
I personally thought about buying the MAC motor for myself many times but with my body weight and the kind of riding I do it wouldnt be the right choice for me. With the one motor available the GMAC, you can get regen but theres still lots of moving parts, more failure points, still less heat shedding and all the other con's geared motors have vs dd. Is MAC the biggest geared motor that is widely available for ebikes, if so then its power limited. Sure you could overpower it, then reliability decreases even more.



They are not Infineon controllers ,they are Xie Chang or however its spelt.
Just because they use a certain brand of integrated circuit chip inside doesnt mean they make the controller.
Was trying to come up with a AMD/Intel explanation - My desktop computer is not an Intel computer, Intel did not sell me my computer, it is a Hewlett Packard desktop computer. The analysis ends there because HP could also use AMD inside their computers but I do not know if Xie uses other brand main chip (cpu?) for their controllers. Also with the computer analogy HP could be using an outsourced motherboard however I looked inside my HP pc a day or two ago and my old pc has a HP mobo.

 

[Bullfrog]

MAC might not be worth it if you overload the motor with to much overall weight whether that be by body weight and or cargo weight.

Also to dig at the comment someone made about the MAC being the best motor.
Best motor for what exactly?
Every style of ebike motor setup has their advantages and disadvantages.
I personally thought about buying the MAC motor for myself many times but with my body weight and the kind of riding I do it wouldnt be the right choice for me. With the one motor available the GMAC, you can get regen but theres still lots of moving parts, more failure points, still less heat shedding and all the other con's geared motors have vs dd. Is MAC the biggest geared motor that is widely available for ebikes, if so then its power limited. Sure you could overpower it, then reliability decreases even more.



They are not Infineon controllers ,they are Xie Chang or however its spelt.
Just because they use a certain brand of integrated circuit chip inside doesnt mean they make the controller.
Was trying to come up with a AMD/Intel explanation - My desktop computer is not an Intel computer, Intel did not sell me my computer, it is a Hewlett Packard desktop computer. The analysis ends there because HP could also use AMD inside their computers but I do not know if Xie uses other brand main chip (cpu?) for their controllers. Also with the computer analogy HP could be using an outsourced motherboard however I looked inside my HP pc a day or two ago and my old pc has a HP mobo.

The nomenclature that MAC and EM3ev use is "12 FET IRFB3077 INFINEON CONTROLLER" for example...so you'll have to make sure you correct them .

The biggest advantage of a MAC/GMAC is you can get more torque/thrust per amp than any other motor designed for an ebike and that includes a Cromotor, QS205, and QS273.

The biggest disadvantage is you can not run more than about 1,200 watts continuously or you will over heat the motor since a geared hub motor has less capability to reject excess heat than a DD motor BUT I run 60A or ~3,500 watts to my MAC every time I start or want to accelerate and have never had any problems with any of the components.

Use the Grin Tech Motor Simulator to see what kind of steady state temperatures you might get and you can safely run 140C without any concerns. If the temps are too high, you can always go to a smaller diameter wheel which basically gears it lower. A 10T MAC/GMAC in a smaller diameter wheel is better than a 12T in a larger diameter wheel if you are trying to keep the temps lower...assuming you run the same top speed. I use a 2% grade to match the temperatures I get while riding.

 

[markz]

Yeah well I dont know why I left that part in there but yeah Infineon doesnt make the controller, its just a common thing ebikers call Xie Chang controllers and its caught on wrongly. Just like its wrong when companies claim a 3T mxus 45H motor to be a "speed motor" and a 8T mxus 45H motor to be a "torque motor" which is wrong.
In a way saying Infineon controller is like saying Kleenex for all tissue or Velcro for all hook and loop or Kraft Dinner for all mac & cheese as all those names have been propagated and its stuck. Just like eating fat is bad, and eating flour and bread is healthy which is wrong.

Xie Chang is who makes it.
Even Justin puts Infineon in quotes
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37964&p=553304&hilit=infineon+xie#p553304

Xie Chang (Infineon) Controller Regen Configuration

But doesnt do it here
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65031&p=981003&hilit=infineon+xie#p981003

ASI field oriented controller and a sensored infineon trapezoidal controller

But whatever, not even sure why I mentioned it to begin with.

 

[Bullfrog]

Yeah well I dont know why I left that part in there but yeah Infineon doesnt make the controller, its just a common thing ebikers call Xie Chang controllers and its caught on wrongly. Just like its wrong when companies claim a 3T mxus 45H motor to be a "speed motor" and a 8T mxus 45H motor to be a "torque motor" which is wrong.
In a way saying Infineon controller is like saying Kleenex for all tissue or Velcro for all hook and loop or Kraft Dinner for all mac & cheese as all those names have been propagated and its stuck. Just like eating fat is bad, and eating flour and bread is healthy which is wrong.

Xie Chang is who makes it.
Even Justin puts Infineon in quotes
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37964&p=553304&hilit=infineon+xie#p553304

Xie Chang (Infineon) Controller Regen Configuration

But doesnt do it here
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65031&p=981003&hilit=infineon+xie#p981003

ASI field oriented controller and a sensored infineon trapezoidal controller

But whatever, not even sure why I mentioned it to begin with.

I agree, and I think you make good points on everything above .

 

[smoko]

Eunorau used to sell a MAC (12T AIR), but it's not on their site now. They have brushless, geared, cassette motors (500w) listed, but don't specify the "T". Why isn't the MAC readily available?

They still have this one showing (MAC 8t), but it appears to be part of a bundle - and that bundle uses a controller with no display, or lead for a display.

https://eunorau-ebike.com/collections/btn-kits/products/48v1000w-mac-geared-rear-8t-cassette-hub-motor-electric-bike-kit-26-27-5-28-wheel-electric-bike-conversion-kit-45km-h

Thanks; somehow I missed that.

I have one of these and the controller has a lead for a CA3.

 

[tomjasz]

I have two, new and unused EM3ev 12FET Infineon black controllers available.

 

[Bullfrog]

Question regarding newer and older MAC motors.

In the picture below I am pointing to one of six embedded magnets in the hub of a newer MAC motor. My older MACs do not have the embedded magnets.

Can anyone tell me what the function of the six embedded magnets is and can I use an older hub that doesn't have the magnets with a newer MAC motor that came with a hub that had the magnets?

Thank You

 

[colsaunders2]

Can anyone tell me what the function of the six embedded magnets is and can I use an older hub that doesn't have the magnets with a newer MAC motor that came with a hub that had the magnets?

The 6 magnets rotate past the speed (hall) sensor on the PCB. Mine has the indents but no magnets or sensor.
I'm not 100% sure, but I imagine you can swap shells so long as the axle fits thru the bearing.