Motobecane DS Fantom, BMC 600W torque and now Lipo build

[Mark_A_W]

It'd really sing with 60v and 30 amps.

 

[kfong]

Yep, I can easily do that if I need the speed. The bike was built for trail riding. I have my Cyclone setup for riding around town for errands and such. It can top out at 27mph. I really don’t need to go faster. It’s not enjoyable without a full face helmet. For trail riding the Motobecane is plenty fast and will be very stealthy once the battery covers gets put on. I want to be able to take it to any of the parks I have here and ride the trails. The single track stuff is mostly turns and hills. Going too fast, you will find a whole new meaning to tree huggers. It’s very much like tree skiing in the mountains. Keeping the power band at the speeds intended makes for a much better ride; I also want to be pedaling the whole time as well. It makes for a fun workout without the heavy sweating or dangerous heart rates.

 

[kfong]

After a year of work and I get this BS going on. The motor has less than 50miles on it and wasn’t even pushed that hard. Before I take it apart does anyone know what what’s going on after seeing the video? You can here the motor spin but there isn’t any connection to the wheel. I really like this setup in the trails, but if the motor isn’t reliable I would not recommend it. I want this to work, it a lot of fun and fairly quiet as well. Motor was never really hot and the trails should not have stressed out the motor. Working voltage is only 40volts. This should not have even been a problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYbY98cH1_8

 

[deecanio]

what controller is it?
I had a similair problem with my puma and turned out to be the keyswitch on the controller was in the wrong position?
long shot but might help, that was on a c-lyte controller.

D

 

[GrayKard]

After a year of work and I get this BS going on. The motor has less than 50miles on it and wasn’t even pushed that hard. Before I take it apart does anyone know what what’s going on after seeing the video? You can here the motor spin but there isn’t any connection to the wheel. I really like this setup in the trails, but if the motor isn’t reliable I would not recommend it. I want this to work, it a lot of fun and fairly quiet as well. Motor was never really hot and the trails should not have stressed out the motor. Working voltage is only 40volts. This should not have even been a problem.

What video?

I have read that the BMC clutch is the weak point on the motor but don't know if that is what is going on with yours.

Gary

 

[Mark_A_W]

The motor is running backwards.

 

[kfong]

what controller is it?
I had a similair problem with my puma and turned out to be the keyswitch on the controller was in the wrong position?
long shot but might help, that was on a c-lyte controller.

D

After reading about the motor, looks like the clutch is the possible problem.

 

[kfong]

The motor is running backwards.

Nope, you can hear it spin but no turning of the wheel.

 

[kfong]

Yeah, I think it's the clutch. This really should not of occured. The video is taking forever to be processed by youtube. I think it's because my camera is high def.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYbY98cH1_8

After a year of work and I get this BS going on. The motor has less than 50miles on it and wasn’t even pushed that hard. Before I take it apart does anyone know what what’s going on after seeing the video? You can here the motor spin but there isn’t any connection to the wheel. I really like this setup in the trails, but if the motor isn’t reliable I would not recommend it. I want this to work, it a lot of fun and fairly quiet as well. Motor was never really hot and the trails should not have stressed out the motor. Working voltage is only 40volts. This should not have even been a problem.

What video?

I have read that the BMC clutch is the weak point on the motor but don't know if that is what is going on with yours.

Gary

 

[Mark_A_W]

The motor is running backwards.

Nope, you can hear it spin but no turning of the wheel.

This is exactly what happens when you run the motor backwards.


In my experience, the clutch fails "on", rather than "off".

 

[itselectric]

After a year of work and I get this BS going on. The motor has less than 50miles on it and wasn’t even pushed that hard. Before I take it apart does anyone know what what’s going on after seeing the video? You can here the motor spin but there isn’t any connection to the wheel. I really like this setup in the trails, but if the motor isn’t reliable I would not recommend it. I want this to work, it a lot of fun and fairly quiet as well. Motor was never really hot and the trails should not have stressed out the motor. Working voltage is only 40volts. This should not have even been a problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYbY98cH1_8

Kfong, have you changed or move the hall wire recently, etc...If you hall signal is miss matching you will get similar effect. But sound more like a clutch problem. Here is the video link that show you how to replace the BMC clutch assembly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg4zOmHTdW4

The motor is running backwards.

Mark, why do you said the motor is running backwards? I was wondering if I missed something in the video? There is only one way to mount the motor, since one side is screw-on freewheel, other side is disc mount, you cannot possible mount the backwards.

 

[voicecoils]

The motor is running backwards.

Mark, why do you said the motor is running backwards? I was wondering if I missed something in the video? There is only one way to mount the motor, since one side is screw-on freewheel, other side is disc mount, you cannot possible mount the backwards.

The motor is inside the hub case, you can spin it backwards without turning the whole wheel around. If the motor spins backwards it just freewheels inside the hub case and doesn't actually engage the wheel.

With my V2-S I can spin it at very low partial throttle and get the motor to spin without engaging the clutch but as soon as I put more throttle on it hooks up and away I go. Never had any issue beyond that.

The video actually sounds like a hall sensor issue, I've had problems I was sure were mechanical but it was just hall sensor or the wiring to it that needed correcting.

 

[Mark_A_W]

Sorry, I didn't realise there was a video.

No, it's not running backwards. (When that happens, which is a wiring thing, or a controller switch, the motor goes ZZZING, but nothing happens to the wheel).


You have a bad clutch, I think.


Open it up and have a look.

 

[kfong]

Mark, it's not possible to install a BMC motor backwards. There is the disk brakes and freewheel already done by factory.

For other replies, this setup was working well in the trails. It failed while riding. It's starting to look more like a clutch issue. It's just nice to have confirmation so I know what I have to deal with.

The motor is running backwards.

Nope, you can hear it spin but no turning of the wheel.

This is exactly what happens when you run the motor backwards.


In my experience, the clutch fails "on", rather than "off".

 

[kfong]

Thanks, for the video link. The motor failed in the trails. I will be taking it apart soon to verify if it's the clutch.

After a year of work and I get this BS going on. The motor has less than 50miles on it and wasn’t even pushed that hard. Before I take it apart does anyone know what what’s going on after seeing the video? You can here the motor spin but there isn’t any connection to the wheel. I really like this setup in the trails, but if the motor isn’t reliable I would not recommend it. I want this to work, it a lot of fun and fairly quiet as well. Motor was never really hot and the trails should not have stressed out the motor. Working voltage is only 40volts. This should not have even been a problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYbY98cH1_8

Kfong, have you changed or move the hall wire recently, etc...If you hall signal is miss matching you will get similar effect. But sound more like a clutch problem. Here is the video link that show you how to replace the BMC clutch assembly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg4zOmHTdW4

The motor is running backwards.

Mark, why do you said the motor is running backwards? I was wondering if I missed something in the video? There is only one way to mount the motor, since one side is screw-on freewheel, other side is disc mount, you cannot possible mount the backwards.

 

[ebikes-sf]

I noticed that BMC gear replacement video uses old V1 motor which doesn't have o-ring holding gears in place. Here are pics demonstrating the extra step needed for V2/3.
http://ebikessf.com/disassembled-bmc-motor

Vince, just send me your blown clutch and I'll replace it with V3 clutch that is made of stronger grade steel; I haven't seen one fail yet.

ilia

 

[kfong]

Cool, thanks. I look forward to getting the bike back out on the trails. It's going to be a fun summer with many trails to discover.

I noticed that BMC gear replacement video uses old V1 motor which doesn't have o-ring holding gears in place. Here are pics demonstrating the extra step needed for V2/3.
http://ebikessf.com/disassembled-bmc-motor

Vince, just send me your blown clutch and I'll replace it with V3 clutch that is made of stronger grade steel; I haven't seen one fail yet.

ilia

 

[nicobie]

If the V3 clutch is the one with the 3 holes in the gear assembly housing, I've managed to bust one of them. I must add that it was mostly my fault as I was running a crap controller that was either on or off with not much in between. It also didn't help that I was seeing peak watts of ~4300 on my unrestricted CA.

It sure was fun while it lasted.

BTW... Ilia your web site is coming along nicely.

 

[kfong]

Jumped right in and got the motor taken apart. As you can see after cleaning off the grease the gears are fine. The clutch must be the problem. I don’t see anything else that could cause it, since you can hear the motor spinning in the video. It was fairly easy to remove with the gear puller, picked it up at the local auto store. The C clip was removed and the 2 steel spacers were taken out. I didn’t see any o-rings unless it was the steel spacers referred too.

 

[full-throttle]

kfong,

was there a little key between the axle and the freewheel?

 

[kfong]

Yep, you have to make sure you don't loose it when you take it apart.

I was trying to find what could make the rattle you see in the video, after looking at the motor it must be from the clutch. It actually is just an internal freewheel. I wish I could take it apart and determine what is wrong and get some insight on how it breaks down. It's not meant to be serviced. From the video you can see the freewheel engaging at first then slips. The freewheel mechanically seems working in my hand but I’m not able to put as much force as the motor. The noise must be from the pawls giving out.

kfong,

was there a little key between the axle and the freewheel?

 

[kfong]

I was asked if I could run the motor just by itself. Not wanting the motor to torque away from me. I mounted it back onto the bike. Here is a video of it running. Looks rather small without the case. It seems to run fine. It’s running in reverse, this took me by surprise until I realized it’s going through a gear box. Can anyone verify this? Here is a close up picture of the stator. I had marked it with a pen to see if there were any slippage. It looks pressed in well and has not moved from the mark. Notice all the drill holes used to balance the stator, a rather low tech way of doing it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw5WUYszW6o

 

[Whiplash]

I have been researching the BMC's a bit for my bike project, and if you put the V3 clutch setup in there it will be stronger, they recognized the design flaw and upgraded the unit, but they will fit in any of the motors! Hope that helps!

 

[kfong]

Ilia, is sending me a V3 clutch. Hopefully that will solve my bike issues. I would of like to have taken the old one apart to see what went wrong with it. I'm also curious if they can be rebuilt, but had to send it back for warranty.

 

[kfong]

It's not a clutch problem; it does the same thing with the new clutch. This has me really stumped. I looked for the reverse key for the controller thinking maybe the switch wires came loose or it failed and the direction in the video is really reversed. It took forever to find it, never thought I would need it once the bike was running. Get this, switch works and when you reverse the direction the motor move the wheel in the proper direction. This was strange since wiring never changed, I thought this solved the problem, but it didn't. Current is way too high and when riding it was a third as fast. Phase wires also got real warm. I think there is an electrical problem, could one of the Hall Effect be bad, would this cause the motor to spin in reverse, or maybe I have a broken control wire? Mechanically things look ok to me. Could the controller be bad? Anyone have an idea on what the problem is? My best guess now is a bad Hall Effect.

I should of ohmed out the wires while the motor was apart. Now I have to rip it all apart again.