New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

[g4eml]

I appreciate all the work that has gone into the OSF. Someone was obviously developing the Bluetooth for the SW102 but for some reason stopped with it unfinished. That’s why I asked the question to see if there was some unforeseen problem. I guess it was maybe just that they started working on something else and forgot about it. Always a problem with big projects.

If I get the spare time I might try to progress it and make my own contribution.

Colin.

 

[casainho]

I appreciate all the work that has gone into the OSF. Someone was obviously developing the Bluetooth for the SW102 but for some reason stopped with it unfinished. That’s why I asked the question to see if there was some unforeseen problem. I guess it was maybe just that they started working on something else and forgot about it. Always a problem with big projects.

If I get the spare time I might try to progress it and make my own contribution.

The developer GeeksVille that did that development stopped to work on this project and moved forward to work on his other own project that is an Open Source hiking, pilot, skiing and secure GPS mesh communicator, that uses similar microcontroller as SW102: https://meshtastic.org/

Note that the TSDZ2 EBike wireless motor controller (https://opensourceebike.github.io/) uses similar microcontroller than SW102 and the code for Bluetooth should be very similar, so the work is already half done.

 

[8fun_fan]

Hi I have almost new motor, but the motor doesn't start spinning. Battery and display are ok. The walking mode pressing minus button on the display does work, but when pedaling the motor don't work. I have follow the guidance not to touch the pedals before switching on. Any other thing I may check before opening ? Is there a way to bypass the torque sensor? Just to check if this is the problem. Cheers

 

[raylo32]

Is this on OEM firmware or one of the OSF builds? Do you have a throttle and if so what does that do?

Hi I have almost new motor, but the motor doesn't start spinning. Battery and display are ok. The walking mode pressing minus button on the display does work, but when pedaling the motor don't work. I have follow the guidance not to touch the pedals before switching on. Any other thing I may check before opening ? Is there a way to bypass the torque sensor? Just to check if this is the problem. Cheers

 

[andrea_104kg]

I don't know if anyone has tried ... is it possible to put a thin Teflon sheet between the two coils of the torsiometer to limit wear? Teflon is the material with the least friction known ...

 

[8fun_fan]

It is OEM, I don't have a throttle for this motor. I have a throttle in other bike ( with typical 3 pin molex connection )but I don't know how to connect it to this motor

 

[raylo32]

Some versions come with controllers that don't support throttle. Some do. I believe the non-throttle bikes have 6 wires in the main cable to the display whilst the throttle motors have 8. On OEM FW and HW the throttle itself simply plugs into a port on the display.
On OSF FW, the throttle plugs into the Bafang style main cable that has a throttle port.

But the issue you raise here is one I am thinking about. If your torque sensor fails (not sure that is you problem yet) and you don't have a throttle you might really be stuck having to pedal a 45-50 pound bike home manually... unless you have a throttle. I currently have a temp sensor in mine which substitutes for the throttle. But I may swap back to a throttle for this reason.

Another aside... if you want throttle you can buy a replacement controller for not too much $$... or better yet swap it out for the
entire OSF setup. New controller with Bafang style T cable, e-brakes, throttle and display.

It is OEM, I don't have a throttle for this motor. I have a throttle in other bike ( with typical 3 pin molex connection )but I don't know how to connect it to this motor

 

[8fun_fan]

Mine has 6 pins, I will prefer the torque sensor, IE throttle just for trouble shooting, but don't plan to use one by default.
How can I check the torque sensor?

 

[raylo32]

I haven't looked into that in detail but check for electrical continuity and shorts to ground. Then perhaps put some torque on it to see if the resistance changes. As I have not yet had a problem with mine I don't know the specs or what values should be. There are others on here that should be able to answer more fully.

Mine has 6 pins, I will prefer the torque sensor, IE throttle just for trouble shooting, but don't plan to use one by default.
How can I check the torque sensor?

 

[8fun_fan]

I opened the controller side, there is continuity. The red,black couple of thing cables I guess there are the torque sensor, and the 5 together the halls.
The torque sensor works will have a signal proportional to torque apply? From 0 to 5 voltage, similar to a throttle?

 

[gfmoore]

Hi I have almost new motor ... but when pedaling the motor don't work.

Hi, what you are describing sounds exactly what I experienced with my new motor. If you have one, put the bike on a [static] trainer and see if there is any effect at all with the changing of assist. When I did this with mine I did experience some effect, but under load on the road it was useless.

The solution for me was to flash the open source firmware https://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=110682&p=1665248#p1665248 or those by others - Casainho's bluetooth version for instance.

When I did this I got the pedal assist back tremendously. It's not a trivial process, though in my opinion worth it very much.

Since this is now two people's experience I'm wondering if there is something amiss with a particular batch of motors? or controllers?
Where did you buy your motor from?

You might want to provide us with exact details of what motor you purchased, 250W, 500W, etc, what voltage battery 36v 48v and what display you are using. That might provide clues to the more knowledgeable folks around here - Unless you already did and I missed it

 

[mrfunk]

Ive fitted the TSDz2 , I love it but still not liking the higher cadence that the 42t is offering me 42T - 11T .. Im really used to roadbikes 50- 54T - My cassette is a wide 10 speed, Bike is a hybrid boardman.

Ive been looking at chainrings one option is to go for the 50t with 10mm offset from Eco bike, but thats going to cost me a lot as Im in the UK are there any UK options?

I was considering a 42t with the TSDz2 104 BCD chainring adapter, but I know im going to loose the 10mm offset. I still want to be able to use the granny gears as I live in hilly Wales..

Second Idea was to stick a bigger Chainring on the outer, but dont think a dereuilar would shift the chain that far over the gap?


Any thoughts of the best solution, Ive done a brief search, but no UK solution.. Thanks

 

[8fun_fan]

Hi I have almost new motor ... but when pedaling the motor don't work.

Hi, what you are describing sounds exactly what I experienced with my new motor. If you have one, put the bike on a [static] trainer and see if there is any effect at all with the changing of assist. When I did this with mine I did experience some effect, but under load on the road it was useless.

The solution for me was to flash the open source firmware https://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=110682&p=1665248#p1665248 or those by others - Casainho's bluetooth version for instance.

When I did this I got the pedal assist back tremendously. It's not a trivial process, though in my opinion worth it very much.

Since this is now two people's experience I'm wondering if there is something amiss with a particular batch of motors? or controllers?
Where did you buy your motor from?

You might want to provide us with exact details of what motor you purchased, 250W, 500W, etc, what voltage battery 36v 48v and what display you are using. That might provide clues to the more knowledgeable folks around here - Unless you already did and I missed it

Motor is 48v 4000rpm, v5lcd. I have try in a trainer but not assistant at all. Bought it second hand will less than 200km.
I was going to try casainho firmware at some point so it may worth trying.

 

[raylo32]

One word of caution on those eco-bike "Solid E-Bike" rings... It's a nice product but I tried the 42t version and the chain rubs ever so slightly on the motor case. Now on my particular install I have the motor spaced 3mm or so towards the drive side to make clearance from the motor case to the fat curved chainstay so perhaps that is the issue... but I don't think so. The rubbing seems to be on the lower side of the front of the case. They clearly pushed the limits of offset with these things. I have an 8-speed drivetrain on this bike... I could probably try to fit a narrower 9- or 10-speed chain which might alleviate the rubbing.

Ive fitted the TSDz2 , I love it but still not liking the higher cadence that the 42t is offering me 42T - 11T .. Im really used to roadbikes 50- 54T - My cassette is a wide 10 speed, Bike is a hybrid boardman.

Ive been looking at chainrings one option is to go for the 50t with 10mm offset from Eco bike, but thats going to cost me a lot as Im in the UK are there any UK options?

I was considering a 42t with the TSDz2 104 BCD chainring adapter, but I know im going to loose the 10mm offset. I still want to be able to use the granny gears as I live in hilly Wales..

Second Idea was to stick a bigger Chainring on the outer, but dont think a dereuilar would shift the chain that far over the gap?


Any thoughts of the best solution, Ive done a brief search, but no UK solution.. Thanks

 

[raylo32]

You might first try to reflash with a different version of the OEM FW. It is easier than changing over to OSF. Instructions below... and they have an archive of tried and true OEM versions. I bought my motor from these guys and it functioned great on their OEM. I have since changed to OSF for the added features and better display but the actual riding is not that different.

https://www.eco-ebike.com/blogs/eco-cycles-instructionals/tsdz2-motor-firmware-programming

Motor is 48v 4000rpm, v5lcd. I have try in a trainer but not assistant at all. Bought it second hand will less than 200km.
I was going to try casainho firmware at some point so it may worth trying.

 

[Manbeer]

Hi I have almost new motor, but the motor doesn't start spinning. Battery and display are ok. The walking mode pressing minus button on the display does work, but when pedaling the motor don't work. I have follow the guidance not to touch the pedals before switching on. Any other thing I may check before opening ? Is there a way to bypass the torque sensor? Just to check if this is the problem. Cheers

https://enerprof.de/media/pdf/18/2e/7f/Display_Bedienungsanleitung_EN.pdf

Maybe someone screwed with the settings and you need to adjust something? like set a very low max speed?

 

[8fun_fan]

https://enerprof.de/media/pdf/18/2e/7f/Display_Bedienungsanleitung_EN.pdf

Maybe someone screwed with the settings and you need to adjust something? like set a very low max speed?

Thanks for the manual, max speed is deactivated. I check TE ( Torque signal value display)and TE1 and both are 80, is this normal value? In the manual the value printed is 0

 

[Elinx]

... I check TE ( Torque signal value display)and TE1 and both are 80, is this normal value? ...

Have you pushed the pedal to see if these values change?

 

[8fun_fan]

It is a fixed parameter on the console, IE similar to wheel size , cut off velocity. Don't think this change with any input from the pedal.
I see some videos people measuring pedal torque , but to my understanding this is not possible at least with the stock firmware.

What I may do is push the pedal and check the voltage coming from the sensor to see if there is any change.

 

[Elinx]

...... measuring pedal torque , but to my understanding this is not possible at least with the stock firmware.
....

For checking the torque sensor with vlcd5 and stock FW, TE is the zero load which doesn't change, but with TE1 you can measure the max load if standing on the pedal.
In your case the TE1 value should be going from about 80 to 150 (or higher).
You can't change this value with stock FW, but checking the output of the torque sensor is possible this way.

information source

 

[8fun_fan]

Thanks, I am trying to enter again the torque menu but I can t .
In odo I press info + power for 10 seconds , but it always go to setting mode ( which should be the same 3 seconds) :x am I doing something wrong?

 

[sysrq]

Looks like finally devoped some thin crack in the plastic cover above the pinion gear due to friction caused by chainring. Probably one of the solutions is to move the chainring outwards by a millimeter and glue some piece of plastic above the crack.
Another option would be plastic welding.
J-B Weld PlasticBonder is said to be slightly more flexible.
Or maybe just use some oil resistant silicone adhesive from the other side, so that in case it falls of it won't damage anything compared to epoxy.

I would get a replacement cover. They don’t cost much (I think I paid 15$ delivered for mine on aliexpress) and then you don’t have to worry about whether the plastic is properly fixed or whether water/grime will seep into the main gear chamber.

Can't think of anything better than a correct size silicone seal from the inside and a 5 mil UHMWPE tape from the outside. Just needs to be secured sufficiently. Making a new separate cover only above the pinion gear attached using the same screws holding the plastic wire cover would be too finicky and unpredictable due to constricted space, etc.

Actually 0.4 mm stainless steel plate would be better since 5 mil UHMWPE tape is still easily penetrated by anything sharp enough. Should be good enough on the top of stainless steel plate to reduce possible friction only.

Probably will gonna glue some 0.45mm thick cap on it made out of a electrolytic capacitor, since after swapping out one of the half-step gear chainrings there is a bigger gap now.
Using steel kinda seems too dangerous close to mechanical parts with unpredictable tolerances.
Silicone adhesive should be strong enough since it's more flexible compared to JB weld plastic Bonder which isn't made to work with polypropylene anyway.
https://ibb.co/g7tqWTJ

 

[fi7ippo]

I don't know if anyone has tried ... is it possible to put a thin Teflon sheet between the two coils of the torsiometer to limit wear? Teflon is the material with the least friction known ...

Hi Andrea, Yes, I do the same. I've installed two thin (0.2mm) teflon rings between the coils and no more wear happened. Before I've to replace the whole torque sensor two times because the magnets fringed each other destroyed the windings... After the modification I've made at least 4k km and the torque sensor is same as new one, no more wear on magnets. I check the sensor every 1k km and problem is gone. You may loose some range on torque sensor, mine goes from 110-280 to 120-260 but is not a problem for me, sure you have to fine hardware calibrate the sensor

 

[raylo32]

Did you take any photos to show the arrangement of the PTFE parts with the sensor? If so, please post them.

Hi Andrea, Yes, I do the same. I've installed two thin (0.2mm) teflon rings between the coils and no more wear happened.

 

[Elinx]

..... photos to show the arrangement of the PTFE parts with the sensor?.......

Maybe these pictures will help?