Passion eBike 6 FET Kunteng Controller (S06S)

[stepan]

This is the inside of the KT-LCD3 (S-LCD3) HMI.

That's a nice blog and research, thanks for that!

BTW, were you able to find pinout of the KT controllers? Where to connect temperature sensor on controller board to be able to see motor temperature on display? Which temp sensors do they support?

 

[ThierryGTLTS]

This is the inside of the KT-LCD3 (S-LCD3) HMI.

That's a nice blog and research, thanks for that!

BTW, were you able to find pinout of the KT controllers? Where to connect temperature sensor on controller board to be able to see motor temperature on display? Which temp sensors do they support?

Same question!!!

I would be interrested to know if a simple 10K classical NTC would do the job, or if something like the LM35 would be more appropriated.

Thierry

 

[Samd]

Interesting info.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[casainho]

This is the inside of the KT-LCD3 (S-LCD3) HMI. There was a little bit of silicone around the edges to seal it. I will need to upgrade the display for 14S. The protocol has been documented by someone here at ES so it would be fairly easy to write a new program for the display for anyone familiar with the STM8.

We now have the OpenSource firmware for the BMSBattery S/Kunteng controllers!! Come and join us

Some videos of our OpenSource firmware:

[youtube]lierB7DXYA4[/youtube]

[youtube]p0gGOhoxhzo[/youtube]

 

[d8veh]

Thank you so much for all your hard work and for making that info available. I've been reading through some of it, but I need to spend a lot more time with it as there's an awful lot to digest. for now, i have one comment. I tried a Q75 with a BMSB S06P controller, which you advise not to use. At first, I had the same commutation problems when running at high power, but then I set P1 to 160 and it worked perfectly through the whole speed and power range. I found that value by trying first all the calculated ones (magnets x reduction ratio), then I started random numbers. 160 was the third random number.

Do you know what is the function of P1?

 

[casainho]

First test of our OpenSource firmware on S06S on a real EBike, recorded some minutes ago -- the video shows the motor running using my lab power supply (that can handles max of 10A). Firmware was limiting the motor max current to be about 8A. Motor max speed is 45km/h when the wheel is on the air.
Tomorrow I will do the first tests with a battery and ride the ebike

This controller family supports from 0.25kW to max of 4.3KW (72V, 60A), which should be ok to implement vehicles like hoverboards up to motorcycles running at 100km/h!!

[youtube]H1GZXHkMK7M[/youtube]

 

[Sztef89]

Hi!

I have the same controler for to my e-bike. I have some problem. My battery is 14s (42-59V) this controller work up to 48V. When I connect then I realized that ~58V burn some parts... good news, there only one element blow up - transistor (SA1013).

Can you tell me what model transistor is correct to be compatible with up to 60V?

This is the inside of the KT-LCD3 (S-LCD3) HMI. There was a little bit of silicone around the edges to seal it. I will need to upgrade the display for 14S. The protocol has been documented by someone here at ES so it would be fairly easy to write a new program for the display for anyone familiar with the STM8. The Ketnus SHD32E22 LCD driver chip is documented and looks very simple to use.

It would be a cool project to make a new circuit board that worked with the LCD (easy to unsolder) the Ketnus LCD driver (or a similar one), an nRF52832 and a thin lithium pouch cell (think phone battery). The wires that plug into the controller would be replaced with a short USB/Micro-USB lead for charging.

 

[lqbweb]

I've updated my second post with a better picture .

ice, I'm thinking of doing the same fet mod (and replacing caps) for 14S

There is already modified 13s (48V) version of the S06S on aliexpress for about 40USD with P&P. For 14S,the modification is the same as for 75V i.e. 100V capacitors, 400V snubblers (red capacitors) and 100V mosfets. You have to play with and probably change the "missing" SMD resistor and add the 3v diode (see the second picture note), otherwise the controller will not work when fully charged and the LVC will activate too early/late. It is wise to add the switching regulator in stead of the LM317 and the 3W resistor, both parts get very hot at high voltage.

why would you need 100v mosfets for 14S? 80V should be fine right?
Same for caps, why 100V? 63V should be enough. Right?

 

[Tiaan Steyn]

I received the new controller quite a while ago. This one is actually sine wave although at very low speeds it starts with square wave. Unfortunately I shorted the gate to ground when testing it and I'm pretty sure I killed the gate driver. It's a little SOT-23 transistor with the marking "Y2". Will any generic replacement work fine or does it need to be matched to the other drivers? The replacement I'm looking at is SS8550.

I'm going to be replacing the LM317T with a switching DC-DC converter. Does anyone know if the 15V rail from the LM317 is used (perhaps for driving the FETs?) or can I just get a 5V converter and run it straight to the output of the 78L05?

Hi flangefrog, I also blew some Y1's and Y2 driver transistors on my controller. Were you successful in using the SS8550 transistor?

 

[flangefrog]

Hi flangefrog, I also blew some Y1's and Y2 driver transistors on my controller. Were you successful in using the SS8550 transistor?

My problem turned out to be a failed mosfet. I don't see any reason why the transistor replacements shouldn't work though. The Y1 is probably an SS8050.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Flangefrog,

I have this same controller sold as the "luna hot rod Sondors" controller. Can you help me wire this to an Eprodigy Logan? I cant even get the controller to power on so I can start deciphering the motor wires. Any tips?

 

[docw009]

I have this same controller sold as the "luna hot rod Sondors" controller. Can you help me wire this to an Eprodigy Logan? I cant even get the controller to power on so I can start deciphering the motor wires. Any tips?

I have a Luna Hot Rod controller. It was intended to replace the stock controller in the original Sondors Fatbike. I believe mine was the 25A model they no longer sell, but it's a KT36/48ZWSRM-SLSD02. It was intended to work with the stock Sondors Harness, except I didn't own one either. When I bought it in 2016, I thought all KT harnesses were the same. They are not.

The 9 pin motor (female) cable on this controller is a standard pinout though, and will fit any 9 pin motor that uses the round (male) plug. I believe it's a 9 MOSFET controller, not 6 MOSFET.

Anyway, mine was started by crossing the LCD3 display's start wire over to where the start wire from the Sondors throttle went. I put that all inside a home made harness. Lost my notes. After that, I bought controller/display/PAS/etc all in one combo. To much work to wire disparate vendors.

 

[SwampDonkey]

I have this same controller sold as the "luna hot rod Sondors" controller. Can you help me wire this to an Eprodigy Logan? I cant even get the controller to power on so I can start deciphering the motor wires. Any tips?

I have a Luna Hot Rod controller. It was intended to replace the stock controller in the original Sondors Fatbike. I believe mine was the 25A model they no longer sell, but it's a KT36/48ZWSRM-SLSD02. It was intended to work with the stock Sondors Harness, except I didn't own one either. When I bought it in 2016, I thought all KT harnesses were the same. They are not.

The 9 pin motor (female) cable on this controller is a standard pinout though, and will fit any 9 pin motor that uses the round (male) plug. I believe it's a 9 MOSFET controller, not 6 MOSFET.

Anyway, mine was started by crossing the LCD3 display's start wire over to where the start wire from the Sondors throttle went. I put that all inside a home made harness. Lost my notes. After that, I bought controller/display/PAS/etc all in one combo. To much work to wire disparate vendors.

Do you remember which wires (color) you crossed? I have a plug with red, black, blue, green, and yellow, and another that is identical but has a white wire as well. They didnt come labled.

 

[flangefrog]

Can you post a photo of your controller and all the wires coming out of it? If you have taken it apart it should be easy enough to diagnose the problem.

Most of the Kunteng controllers I've bought require both a plug on the display connector (shorting red/blue and black/yellow) as well as another connector with red/pink shorted. See this photo from the first post:

 

[SwampDonkey]

Can you post a photo of your controller and all the wires coming out of it? If you have taken it apart it should be easy enough to diagnose the problem.

Most of the Kunteng controllers I've bought require both a plug on the display connector (shorting red/blue and black/yellow) as well as another connector with red/pink shorted. See this photo from the first post:

Yeah, i tried shorting those wires and looking for the battery voltage and the 5V signal voltage on the yellow, red and black wires. Got nothing. The controller has stopped sparking when plugged in. Im afraid something went wrong but I cant see anything on the board. Here's some pics.

Edit: Mine doesnt seem to have a pink wire.

 

[flangefrog]

If you don't get any spark it could either mean that the capacitor is already charged or that there's a connection problem or broken trace etc on the power input section.

What I would do is hook the controller up to a power input (preferably current limited), keep the negative probe on the power input connector and start tracing the battery voltage from the input.

1. First check the voltage where the battery input wire connects to the PCB.
2. Check the voltage at the large caps.
3. Measure the red wire on the display connector (or at the PCB.
4. Short the red to blue on display connector (or plug the display in and turn it on) and measure the blue wire at the PCB,
5. Check the large resistor next to the 317T
6. Then check the input and output of the 317T itself.
7. Check the 78L05 input and output.

You may also want to keep the red probe on the power input and check the Gnd at the large input capacitors and the black display wire.

This schematic may be helpful: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/development/EmbeddedFiles/32-BMSBattery_S06S-Kuteng_EBike_motor_controller_schematic.pdf

 

[docw009]

Swampdog, Is this the controller you bought?

 

[SwampDonkey]

If you don't get any spark it could either mean that the capacitor is already charged or that there's a connection problem or broken trace etc on the power input section.

What I would do is hook the controller up to a power input (preferably current limited), keep the negative probe on the power input connector and start tracing the battery voltage from the input.

1. First check the voltage where the battery input wire connects to the PCB.
2. Check the voltage at the large caps.
3. Measure the red wire on the display connector (or at the PCB.
4. Short the red to blue on display connector and measure the blue wire at the PCB,
5. Check the large resistor next to the 317T
6. Then check the input and output of the 317T itself.
7. Check the 78L05 input and output.

You may also want to keep the red probe on the power input and check the Gnd at the large input capacitors.

This schematic may be helpful: https://opensourceebikefirmware.bitbucket.io/development/EmbeddedFiles/32-BMSBattery_S06S-Kuteng_EBike_motor_controller_schematic.pdf

Ok,

Voltage at Battery input terminals on board - 49.5V, same as battery

Voltage at large caps - Both 49.5V

Voltage at display connector- Not sure which one is the display connector, but one red-black pair is at .24V, the other is 0V.

Which group is the display connector? Their are identical cables (with red and blue wires) except one has an additional white wire. And when you say "measure the blue wire", what do you mean? I need a + and - to measure voltage from.

What is the 317T? The 78l05?


Sorry, Im just not familiar with these components.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Swampdog, Is this the controller you bought?

i believe so. Its the Luna "hot rod" 52V sondors controller. Mine actually didnt come with a green plug. Had 2 8-pin black ones, one short one long.

Edit: And the plug for the display doesnt fit.

 

[flangefrog]

Voltage at display connector- Not sure which one is the display connector, but one red-black pair is at .24V, the other is 0V.

The red wire should be at the battery voltage. The blue wire should be 0V until it's connected to the red wire then it should be at the battery voltage as well.

Which group is the display connector? Their are identical cables (with red and blue wires) except one has an additional white wire.

The one with the white wire sounds like the hall sensor connector and the white wire is for a speed sensor built into the motor. The photo you've marked "Controller cable" looks to be for the display.

And when you say "measure the blue wire", what do you mean? I need a + and - to measure voltage from.

Remember I said to keep the negative probe on the power input while making these measurements. So you are measuring between Gnd and the blue wire.

What is the 317T? The 78l05?

You can google them, the pinouts will be near the top of the datasheet. They are linear regulators to drop the voltage (to 15V and 5V respectively). The 317T is a TO-220 and the 78L05 a TO-92 package (google those too).

 

[SwampDonkey]

The red wire should be at the battery voltage. The blue wire should be 0V until it's connected to the red wire then it should be at the battery voltage as well

Damn. Guessing the controller is DOA. I dont see anything fried on the board, but all the red/black pairs are dead or very low. Any way to fix this?

The one with the white wire sounds like the hall sensor connector and the white wire is for a speed sensor built into the motor. The photo you've marked "Controller cable" looks to be for the display.

Yeah, the hall sensor wires were bundled in the same cable as the phase wires. I have them in terminal blocks since I was planning on sorting through the hall/ phase wires tonight.

Remember I said to keep the negative probe on the power input while making these measurements. So you are measuring between Gnd and the blue wire.

Ok, I got it. Again, no voltage.

You can google them, the pinouts will be near the top of the datasheet. They are linear regulators to drop the voltage (to 15V and 5V respectively). The 317T is a TO-220 and the 78L05 a TO-92 package (google those too).

Ok, I checked all 3 legs of the 317T, no voltage.

 

[flangefrog]

The red wire should be at the battery voltage. The blue wire should be 0V until it's connected to the red wire then it should be at the battery voltage as well

Damn. Guessing the controller is DOA. I dont see anything fried on the board, but all the red/black pairs are dead or very low. Any way to fix this?

Just to confirm, you've measured between the black power input wire and the red display wire, also from the red power input wire to the black display wire and no voltage on either?

If you look at the schematic I linked, the red display wire (VBAT+) should be directly connected to the red power input wire (actually the schematic has it reversed but never mind that). Or in my case, the red display wire wasn't attached to the red power input wire until I shorted the red and pink leads.

You need to have a look at the traces on the circuit board and figure out why the red display wire is not connected to the red power input wire. You can do this with the power disconnected and the multimeter on continuity mode (buzzer). Starting with one probe on the red display wire and one on the red power wire, follow the wires and tracks and move the probes closer until you find they are connected. Maybe the display wire has been pulled out of the board. Or test the black display and power input wires if the red ones are fine.

 

[SwampDonkey]

The red wire should be at the battery voltage. The blue wire should be 0V until it's connected to the red wire then it should be at the battery voltage as well

Damn. Guessing the controller is DOA. I dont see anything fried on the board, but all the red/black pairs are dead or very low. Any way to fix this?

Just to confirm, you've measured between the black power input wire and the red display wire, also from the red power input wire to the black display wire and no voltage on either?

If you look at the schematic I linked, the red display wire (VBAT+) should be directly connected to the red power input wire (actually the schematic has it reversed but never mind that). Or in my case, the red display wire wasn't attached to the red power input wire until I shorted the red and pink leads.

You need to have a look at the traces on the circuit board and figure out why the red display wire is not connected to the red power input wire. You can do this with the power disconnected and the multimeter on continuity mode (buzzer). Starting with one probe on the red display wire and one on the red power wire, follow the wires and tracks and move the probes closer until you find they are connected. Maybe the display wire has been pulled out of the board. Or test the black display and power input wires if the red ones are fine.

Im getting full battery voltage from the red input wire to the black display wire. Im familiar with continuity hunting. I'll track it down and report back. I dont have a pink lead to short to the red. Can you tell which wire is equivalent on mine?

Edit: Red display wire has continuity with the blue and green wires on the other cable. Weird stuff!

Edit 2: It looks like your pink is my thin blue and green. The thin yellow is your thin red located near battery +, and carries battery voltage (49V) when grounded to the battery - in. It also sparked again when I plugged it in, so the caps are working. This thing might be alive after all!

 

[flangefrog]

It sounds like you've figured it out. You should be getting the correct voltage on the regulators now and if so then the controller is probably working.

The reason why there's both a green and blue wire connected to the red is likely so one of them can power a light.

 

[SwampDonkey]

It sounds like you've figured it out. You should be getting the correct voltage on the regulators now and if so then the controller is probably working.

The reason why there's both a green and blue wire connected to the red is likely so one of them can power a light.

Ha, I wish I had your confidence. I had to walk away from the project for a few days, but im fixing to start on it again now. I have no clue what to do next. Im going to get started and see what issues pop up. Im sure I'll be back here soon with more questions lol.