Problems?

One thing is that you’ve got a quite nice bms in there, it’s the jbd bms with integrated contactor. If it’s a logic match to the pack then your cells should be high power even if the capacity might not be correct. You can check in the settings what Ah capacity they have set. Is it what it should be?

Second that cell 11 and 16 have either started to fail or wire connections are bad. If you measure on the bms sense wires first (unplug the sense wire connector(s) and measure between each of the positions from side to side). Write the values down and post them here.

if the connection had the same voltages as in the app, then either wire connections at the cells are bad or cells are bad.

If the connection voltages are not the same as in the app but still ok then the bms connector could be the issue. I’ve seen bms wires that crept out of the sockets so that the circuits to the bms was not closed.
 
So I am a noob, unplug the wires going into the BMS and Measure voltage from the ends of each pack?
 
Unplug this connector:
76DECF30-A8DD-440F-A9E6-732B135BEB6A.jpeg
I have used some jbd bms’s and they have not been sensitive to plugging or unplugging this connector.
Measure voltage between each socket going from one side to the other. Post values here.

Socket 1 - socket 2
Socket 2 - socket 3
Socket 3 - socket 4
… etc
 
Ok, so it’s the same issues found on the sense wires side, bms is functioning as it should and two cell voltages are NOK. This is why the bms has cut the power.

At this stage it’s obvious that battery is not functioning and i would contact seller and ask for a refund. If they don’t respond then file a dispute ASAP where you bought it to get your money back. If you paid by paypal then file a dispute there also.

I think you’d just waste time fixing the sellers issues if you look further. Most likely it’s not a 150Ah battery at all but to dispute that you’d need to dig out the cells or discharge the pack and measure capacity which will be tough with the issues it has.
 
They told me to charge the low cell.
The reason I bought a battery was as a noob, I wouldn’t have to do much battery wise.
After the last post on here I emailed them saying 2 cells were down I wanted a refund
No response yet!
PS the app is great, why they didn’t tell me it had Bluetooth I have no idea
If this was a self build I would get a single cell charger and charge the two low cells
Surely they should have been balanced
 
There is a reason those cells have not ballanced.
Cell fault
BMS fault
wiring fault
Etc
The 0.69 v cell is unlikely to revive and perform safely .
Push for a full refund or replacement ....or be prepared for much faultfinding and repairs to fix someone eles’s problem
I feel for you, but that is the risk and trade off for buying from distant suppliers.
 
If the lowest cell (nearly zero volts) is really that low, it could be a potential fire hazard to recharge it at all. I wouldn't, especially not knowing anything about the cell manufacturer, quality of cells, whether they are new or were recycled out of something else (not that uncommon, unfortunately, and since this company has already almost certainly flat out lied about the capacity of the pack, it's also possible they don't even use new cells, or have other shady practices).
 
Oldspot said:
PS the app is great, why they didn’t tell me it had Bluetooth I have no idea
They probably don't even know it has that. (they probably dont' know much, if anything, about what they sell or make (if they even make them themselves)).


Surely they should have been balanced
If the cells were new, well-matched cells, being used well within their specifications, they would stay balanced on their own. The BMS wouldn't need to do anything with them until they began to age over the years and began to drift away from each other in capabilities.

However, given the company's other deducible practices, these are probably not matched at all, in any way, other than possibly using the same model number cell from the same manufacturer (they might not even do that; it's a common practice in 18650 packs from some places, so could certainly be done with pouch packs like this one).

But what is more likely the problem is that one or both of the cells in that group have failed internally, and drained the group down to nearly zero volts. The BMS can't do anything about this kind of problem; failed cells would do this even if they were just sitting on the shelf by themselves not connected to anything.

It is also possible that the BMS itself has a stuck-on balancer on that group that it can't turn off. It can drain 150mA continuously according to the specs, so that means every hour it would take 150mAh out of a group of cells connected to a stuck-on balancer. Since the pack is almost certainly nowhere near 150Ah, and more like half that, we'll just use 75Ah as the capacity for the calculation: 75Ah = 75000mAh. 75000 / 150 = 500 hours. That's only about 21 days. So the balancer could've failed 21+ days ago, and been draining the group the whole time. Whenever the pack is on the charger, it would slow the draining down, but every hour it is not, it would drain the cell group at that rate. As it drains, the pack would behave worse and worse, cutting out more and more frequently, and sooner after starting out after a charge. Eventually it would empty it, where it's at now.

The same thing will happen with an internally failed cell, but there isnt' a simple pre-spec'd number for how quickly it will happen. It could take much more time than the stuck balancer, or it could take much less, depending on exactly what's wrong in the cell.


The main difference between the two is that a cell that failed internally can't be recharged anymore (even if you recharge it it will drain itself again, best case). A cell that's drained by the BMS *could* potentially be recharged and keep it's charge (but when drained as far as this one is, is internally damaged and probably will never work the way it did originally, and it's difficult to predict it's future behavior as you don't really know what specific damage has happened inside it).

The BMS, if stuck on balancer is the problem, will drain *any* cell that is connected to that balancer. If you have the tools and can get the part(s) you could replace the failed part(s) (usually a simple transistor).
 
Thanks I much appreciate the post,
I have requested a replacement/refund.

So what battery do I buy or build?
 
My best advice would be to get some used EV cells. Cheap, easy to build with and high capacity/high power. Building with cylindrical cells like 18650s or 21700 is a lot more work and in my opinion best suited when you want to use that last space available.. if you could fit the ”150Ah” battery chunk then you’d certainly be able to fit some blocks of EV cells.
 
Does anyone really think a refund would ever happen?

I never heard of an Ali seller being "forced" to cover return shipping, no matter how fraudulent the product delivered.
 
john61ct said:
Does anyone really think a refund would ever happen?

I never heard of an Ali seller being "forced" to cover return shipping, no matter how fraudulent the product delivered.
I once got a full refund...via PayPal... for a ebike from Alexpress, that turned up as a piece of cheap jewelery !!
Once delivery is recorded, the seller just denies any liability for what may/may not be in the package.
A common scam...sell diamonds,...deliver glass !

A “fallback” position if refund/replacement fails, might be to insist on the seller shipping replacement cells, BMS, etc at no cost. ?.....negative reviews are the lever.
 
Oldspot said:
So what battery do I buy or build?
larsb said:
My best advice would be to get some used EV cells. Cheap, easy to build with and high capacity/high power. Building with cylindrical cells like 18650s or 21700 is a lot more work and in my opinion best suited when you want to use that last space available.. if you could fit the ”150Ah” battery chunk then you’d certainly be able to fit some blocks of EV cells.
As long as he's gone to this much effort already (diagnostic inspection) why not delve deeper even attempting a repair? Besides if he's considering his own pouch DIY build using salvaged EV cells what better learning experience than delving deeper into his current battery ...

file.php


It's easy to see where the 12s2p (3.62V) is located and where 16s2p (0.694V) is located. Why is it that 5s2p-6s2p (in middle of the bottom row) appear take up more space (wider foam pad)? Likewise, the same with 15s2p-16s2p (in middle of top row (wider foam pad).

Delving deeper and even attempting to repair as a 19s2p battery ... assuming 12s2p has a poor connection and can be balance charged with the other 18 p-groups. If not what about 18s2p battery? Seems like a great learning experience. Possibly won't be necessary to start over with another battery or his own 20s2p pouch cell build using salvaged cells.

If he actually attempts to build his own 20s2p pouch cell battery the best place to first start is delving deeper into his existing battery attempting to refurbish it into a 19s2p or 18s2p. If it were me i'd be gun-ho to give it my best effort if for no other reason than as a great learning experience :thumb:

Is it not true that even though its a 20S BMS it still can function as a 19S or 18S BMS ? This would be a great thread for not only his benefit, but others as well ... following his progress as you guys assist him along the way. His chances of getting a refund are slim to none so turn this thread into a great ES teaching/learning experience.
 
Thanks for a great reply!
So not much from seller until I complained to AliExpress
They seemed to be good, got a response from the seller saying they would “help”
The keep insisting that I should charge the down cells
Cell 16 is swollen on each end.
Now they have offered more cells if I fit them, I probably think this is the best I am going to get.
If I send it back- it will cost, take ages, they will only replace the down cells and send it back.
They have now asked for a video (of what they did not say) I have done a walk around the battery and BMS app display.
PS I think the wider foam in the middle is an optical illusion, I pulled it out but have not replaced it firmly enough
 
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