Reviews and Modifications of ebike model: XB-310Li

[LeftieBiker]

I'll probably end up with the bike, so I'll look into this when I do - sending it back really isn't an option now. I actually replaced the seat with an extra wide comfort seat for her, putting it as low as it can go. The bike came with two steel 'rails' running in an arc from the seatpost to the rear wishbone. I suspect that this was intended to be a pack mounting location, but wasn't used. I put a thick rubber pad on top of the rails, then bungeed the battery/controller onto that. Not elegant, but effective and it also lowers the center of gravity. I'm just not at all impressed with this bike. Even the gearing is wrong, with no really low 1st gear for hills, so the bike will likely simply 'stall' on a steep hill, while you struggle to pedal. I wonder if the Shimano cluster with "Ultra-Low" that the EZIP Trailz uses will fit this bike...

 

[The Stig]

The shimano cluster probably will. The deraileur just has to be able to extend enough. The LBS could probably answer that question.

This is the most low end ebike that I know of (thats even worth considering). Not sure what you mean by steel rails/how you mounted the battery. pics would help.

 

[LeftieBiker]

If you look at photos of the "X-Cursion" you will see two steel tubes connecting the luggage rack to the seatpost area. They are usually mounted so the tire protrudes through them, but simply inverting them repositions them so they are above the tire, and serve as a decent mounting location.

 

[The Stig]

Looks like it might be mounted to the swing arm / moves with the swing arm (a suspension component). I would generally want to mount batteries above suspension, somewhere on the frame, to avoid vibrating them to pieces, and having them being hit every time there is a pothole. It should work fine for very smooth roads and casual riding

 

[LeftieBiker]

I haven't checked here in a awhile. I have the bike in the garage, and am buying it, reluctantly, from my Sister. I don't remember if those two rails mount to the swingarm or not, but it's a moot point, as the 2015 version comes with a solid bar in place of the rear shock - there is no rear suspension movement. I'll check tomorrow, if I remember. The bad news is that she can't find *any* of the damned paperwork for the bike, not even an email receipt (people using their phones to order things isn't a good trend) so I can't yet (if ever) make a warranty claim for the iffy controller. I will most likely try to sell the bike in the Spring; it looks great, bright red paint and no damage, but I'm no longer a fan of volatile lithium ion batteries, and the gearing is all wrong for the riding I do. Too many big hills. The bike is fast for 24 volts, but has inadequate torque and a way-too-tall 1st gear.

 

[The Stig]

Volatile lithium?? Im pretty sure your not at risk of your battery catching fire.

Ebikes.ca is having a sale, and I think 4 of these packs would fit inside our frog battery cases. really high quality cells, would probably last a lifetime if used at the power levels that motor can handle.
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/experimental/b362-5lim-r.html

 

[LeftieBiker]

Volatile lithium?? Im pretty sure your not at risk of your battery catching fire.

Lithium ion cells, as opposed to LiFePo4 cells, have a real risk of catching fire and burning with ferocity and intensity. There have been incidents where cargo planes were destroyed by lion battery fires in the cargo holds.

 

[The Stig]

cargo planes sure. carrying potentially large batteries or boxes full of batteries, carrying potentially volatile chemistries, like LiPo?
I've never seen evidence of a Li-NMC, low-end, ~300 Wh, production ebike battery catching fire without abuse or bad care. do you know the chemistry of your battery? I would be open to seeing such evidence.

 

[LeftieBiker]

There is a topic on VisForVoltage about a kid's toy with a L-ion battery that caught fire while charging, and produced a wall of flames that burned a house down. I've seen other similar reports. L-ion batteries were also behind the laptop fires a few years back. I'm not saying that every L-ion battery is going to go up in flames, just that with LifePo batteries available I see little reason to risk the fire and the definitely far shorter life of the ion batts.

 

[The Stig]

Yes i too think LiFePO4 is probably safer. It may be safer mostly because its less energy dense. It definately is cheaper long term if you run it at low current (~2C max or less)

As for a report here and there; in a forum or in the media, that falls a little short of evidence showing that all Li-Ion is a fire risk. Gasoline is volatile and cars do catch fire. Heck, gas cars catch fire far more often than teslas according to musk. I'm sure studies have shown that the risk of fire in cars is low enough that we shouldn't consider them a fire risk, or be worried about it.

 

[The Stig]

On a new note:

Heres a good trick for tightening these tiny screws that you cant get to without taking the mounting bracket off the seatpost!

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=73338&p=1127736#p1127736

 

[LeftieBiker]

If anyone wants to buy my Sister's (now MY) XB-310li now, in the Dead of Winter, with the controller glitch, they can have it for $400 - local pickup. The bike looks new, except for the relocated power module. If there is interest, I'll take pictures of it.

 

[LeftieBiker]

After disagreeing with the support tech over what is likely the problem (he says battery, I think controller) I gave up and sent them the battery pack. We'll see if they get me a new one anytime soon, and if that solves the shutdown problem. I had asked that they send a controller as well if the battery tests ok, but that was completely ignored. When the bike is fixed (?) I'll be selling it for $500.

 

[The Stig]

I imagine their customer service is lacking... To want to replace the expensive battery before they want to replace the cheap controller, Either they are really wrong or really sure. If you try the new battery and the problem persists, and they wont replace the controller, ask them for the price of the controller its probably so cheap that its not worth the cost in your time for arguing with them.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Last week I contacted Support again, and they said the battery pack had tested defective, and they were shipping a new one "probably tomorrow." Once I have it, and test it, the bike is for sale.

 

[Dodie]

Hi. New to this forum. Was wondering if any help available on my older xb 310li.
Everything seems "normal ", i.e. battery charges, wires connected, etc. Although, when I start to pedal or give throttle battery pack dies and I need to turn key off and on again. When on rack, will pedal assist correctly. Do I have a fuse? Does the BMS apply here? Do I have a BMS?
Any help appreciated.
Thank you

 

[amberwolf]

Almost certainly a cell or cells in the pack is so low that under load it shuts it's output off.

May I guess that its range has been getting shorter and shorter, especially recently?


You can leave it plugged into the charger at least overnight, and see if it improves any. If it does not, try for as long as you can manage, keeping an eye on it during the charging process in case something goes wrong with the pack.


Alternately, it could be the connector between battery and controller, especially if the battery gets frequently removed for charging, rather than charging on the bike.

 

[Dodie]

Thank you Amber. I don't even have a "riding range". It shuts off on first throttle or first pedal soon as I start off.
I charge always on the bike, says battery has a full charge, will try your suggestion of charging "more".
Do you know if my bike has the bms and how do I check for it?
Thanks again.

 

[amberwolf]

Thank you Amber. I don't even have a "riding range". It shuts off on first throttle or first pedal soon as I start off.

Ah, so then it has never ever worked for you? Presumably you just acquired your bike used in it's present condition then?

If you bought it back when it was new, and it did work then, then did it begin dropping in range recently? Or did it suddenly just start doing what it is doing now?

I charge always on the bike, says battery has a full charge, will try your suggestion of charging "more".

What specifically indicates the "full charge"? Is it a voltmeter with a specific voltage reading? If so, what is it? Or is it a set of LEDs that show something like "empty....full"?

Do you have a voltmeter you can check the battery voltage with? If so, you can measure it just sitting there, and then watch it when you turn the throttle. If it dips greatly in voltage, then it is the most likely cause. You should post the voltages you measure here. I would set the voltmeter to 200vdc, and use the red lead on battery positive, and the black lead on battery negative.

Do you know if my bike has the bms and how do I check for it?

BMS is Battery Management System, and it is a board inside your battery, if it is a lithium type. It's job is to do exactly what appears to be happening--to shut off to protect the cells against overload/etc., so you don't have a fire. To find out if the battery cells are a problem, you have to open up the battery and measure them with a voltmeter.

If yours uses lead-acid (SLA) bricks, it won't have one. In that case, the controller itself is what is shutting off when the battery drops severely in voltage under load. But usually the latter problem would automatically reset as soon as you take the load off, and not require turning it off and on again.

So you need to know what kind of battery you have, before you go checking things.

 

[Dodie]

Thanks again for some more inputs.
It's a 24V-10AH battery. I've had the bike for a few years and it worked fine. When I just tried to ride it the other day is when I noticed this issue. It a lithium battery pack.
I took it to a battery store and he tested if with his meter and he said it was reading 28 amps.
To see if it has "juice" it has some led lights on the pack and it seems to be holding a charge.
I got ahold of xtreme bikes and they suggested that I send it to them for testing. They had no other words of advice.
They did mention that the bms is in the battery pack.
So, hopefully it is the battery and it's a simple fix. If not the battery, then will cross that bridge later.
Unfortunately, I don't mess with the battery or electronics.
I appreciate all your help.
Thank you, Dodie

 

[amberwolf]

It's a 24V-10AH battery. I've had the bike for a few years and it worked fine.

Then it *does* have a "riding range". Or at least, it did, when it "worked fine".

When I just tried to ride it the other day is when I noticed this issue.

Does this mean that the answer to the question: "Did it always get exactly the same range, up to the day it failed?" is yes? Or is the answer more complicated? A completely detailed answer would be useful to help you find your problem. The answer so far just lets us know that it "did work before" and "doesn't work now".

If you can answer whether it has decreased in range over time, that would be helpful.

Also, whether that decrease been significantly more extreme recently, especially just before the problem you have now?

Any and all details may be useful.

It a lithium battery pack.
<snip>
They did mention that the bms is in the battery pack.

That's helpful; it means that its BMS will probably attempt to protect the cells against overcharge or overdischarge, to protect you against the risk of fire those can cause, so a cell problem could trigger the BMS to cause the problem you see.

Now we just need to know the details of what changed between the time it worked, and the time it didnt', because rarely do these types of problems just suddenly start one day without any preceding symptoms unless there is a specific cause (crash, flood, maintenance, etc).

I took it to a battery store and he tested if with his meter and he said it was reading 28 amps.

Hmm. You probably don't know this yet, but a battery doesn't "read amps", so if that's what he actually said, then whoever you spoke with doesn't know what he's talking about.

It might be able to supply 28 amps under a specific load condition while only sagging a specific amount of voltage, but without knowing both of those other things, knowing the amps it supplied isn't useful.

I recommend talking to him to get complete details and clarification on exactly what he measured and how, or it is not usable information.

You can buy a cheap multimeter at places like harbor freight, etc., and do quite a lot of useful tests on your own (with our guidance if you need it).

To see if it has "juice" it has some led lights on the pack and it seems to be holding a charge.

What specifically do you mean by "holding a charge"?

Do the lights remain on when you try to ride the bike, in exactly the same way they are on now?

So, hopefully it is the battery and it's a simple fix. If not the battery, then will cross that bridge later.
Unfortunately, I don't mess with the battery or electronics.

Unless you're willing to test the battery, and potentially repair it (which if it's years old, probably means replacing all the cells in it), then realistically you're just going to have to buy a new one to find out if it is the problem. Replacing it is also the only really "simple fix" to such a problem, anyway.

FWIW, it will probably cost more to pay someone else to repair it than to buy a new one, especially if you have to ship it to them (since a defective lithium battery is dangerous goods, hazardous materials, and whoever ships it has to have certification for doing that).