Sketchy Battery Pack?

[amberwolf]

If you mean RC Lipo packs, I wouldn't sell a device with those in it to anyone unless they are already intimately familiar with using them, and have the proper chargers / etc for them, and are well aware of the dangers and risks of using them. (since they are often not of the best quality, which is one reason they don't last all that long...another reason they don't always last long is that the "ratings" sellers give them are usually well above what they are actually capable of, so they're being used really hard in most of the common applications for them).

 

[jetpackjbd]

If you mean RC Lipo packs, I wouldn't sell a device with those in it to anyone unless they are already intimately familiar with using them, and have the proper chargers / etc for them, and are well aware of the dangers and risks of using them. (since they are often not of the best quality, which is one reason they don't last all that long...another reason they don't always last long is that the "ratings" sellers give them are usually well above what they are actually capable of, so they're being used really hard in most of the common applications for them)

I didn’t realize LiPO packs are almost only sold for RC use, checking online I can’t find many over 14v or 6ah. I wouldn’t be super comfortable using them in a scooter either, but it’s at least an option for cheap high current output. I agree that LiPO batteries are terrible for use in something I’d resell, especially for their flammable nature

 

[amberwolf]

LiPo itself as a term just means Lithium Polymer, and applies to many chemistries and physical types of cells. That's why teh term RC LiPo is commonly used for those specific pack types, to distinguish them from the many others.

There are similar cells to those used in those packs sold for other uses (some of the sources may even be trustworthy), but the packs themselves are typically sold for "hobby" use, and despite the premium prices sometimes asked for them usually have little or no QC, given the problems people have had with them even when first received and not yet even used.

Batteries of all kinds are unfortunately at the state of nearly complete lack of trustworthy and reliable sources for them, for a number of reasons mostly stemming from greed. One of the worst reasons is the recycling of literal garbage cells of all kinds (but especially 18650s) into packs sold as new, often labelled with capabilities and capacities that are far beyond what they could have done even if they were not useless garbage. :/

Even sellers of bare cells may be selling QC rejects or salvaged cells, sometimes masked as new by various means, or they may not pack them or ship them properly (especially with pouch cells) and they can be seriously damaged in transit.

 

[999zip999]

DrAngle has a lot of threads on that motor that battery and how he deals with the 24 volt system on the cheap he has threads on tools and parts for that style motor and voltage.

 

[999zip999]

I was going to give you a link to DrAngel threads especially his ones on batteries and controllers and motors but in this new endosphere format I can't seem to find him and his many threads ? He is your man

 

[jetpackjbd]

I was going to give you a link to DrAngel threads especially his ones on batteries and controllers and motors but in this new endosphere format I can't seem to find him and his many threads ? He is your man

Sounds like just the guy I need, I’ll try to find him.
Edit: I believe it’s DrkAngel, not DrAngel anymore

 

[999zip999]

I believe you are right please don't tell anyone I was wrong. Good luck yeah he has pages and pages especially on how to make evaluate and where to get 24 volt batteries.

 

[999zip999]

A.W. or some other moderator that's reading this please help me find DrkAngels list of topics he used to have them underneath his name where are they now in the library of endless-spere please help.

DrkAngle has 25 Topics some 400 pgs
Anyway what's the new ES secret defining his topics
Thank you very much.

 

[MarcoWasRight]

Doing a Google search of: Parham-Silverman '1/4th rule' results in the following ...

Parham-Silverman '1/4th rule' - Google Search

If only all manufacturers of lithium Li-Po cells used the same precise industry criteria when it comes to listig the "continuous C rating" of their Li-Po cells. For example a Thunder Power ProLiteX 25C (2800mAh 2S 7.4V) Lipo battery would be good for more cycles using a more realistic 6.25C continuous rating. And a Thunder Power Elite (325mAh 1S 3.7V) 55C LiPo battery with a more realiztic rating of 13.75C.

Is it possible Li-Po manufacturers have advised google not allow any search of: .... Parham-Silverman '1/4th rule' as it would defeat Li-Po manufactureres of their 4 times C marketing strategy?

Lipo C ratings are an entire clusterfuck in their own right. The Wayne Giles ESR meter is the best tool on the market for determining the ACTUAL C rating of Lipos.

Cylindrical 18650/21700/etc made by the big name manufacturers have real datasheets. Many of them slightly overstate discharge current but that can be compared to HKJ/Battery Mooch testing to get an ideal of real world testing as the cell temperature is usually approaching a dangerous level when you try to use the manufacturers maximum continuous discharge rate for the entire capacity of the cell.

Most NMC/NCA cells are 2.50V to 4.20V. Some are 2.75V minimum and some of the old Sony's and others were 3.00V

But the vast vast majority nowadays are 2.50V to 4.20V. Don't let the smoothbrains tell you that an NMC/NCA cell is empty at 3.2V. That's an entirely different chemistry. Below 3.00V there isn't much capacity left but many of the slot style charger/testers only go down to 3.0/2.8V and I've seen first hand when testing LG MJ1's that my EBC A20 (set exactly as the datasheet says for a discharge test) will give me 200mAh more capacity than a LiitoKala charger or Xtar charger when testing capacity. So obviously there is capacity in that low voltage region but it is not linear and the voltage drops quickly once you hit 2.75V

You will degrade your cells more charging them from 4.10V to 4.20V than you would if you didn't discharge below 2.75V down to 2.50V

Don't believe all the hype about avoid the last 500 or 800 millivolts of the cells voltage range. The top end is where the cell is stressed the most. Avoiding the last 10% in the DOD is as far as you need to go. You do the math to figure out what that voltage range is but I assure it is less than 500mV.

 

[MarcoWasRight]

I’m almost considering LiPO batteries, as I know I can find some that will fit and provide more than enough current. But they last only around 300 cycles, right? That’s about what an SLA should last for. I might sell the scooter at some point and I don’t want the next owner to find the batteries cooked after a few weeks. Literally cooked even, given the volatility of the batteries.

And the Lipos must be stored at nominal voltage to prevent serious degradation.

 

[amberwolf]

Here's the latest thing I ran across on Aliexpress, with absolutely ridiculously impossible claims:

Here's one claiming 30Ah in a space about a tenth of the volume of the typical 5Ah RC LiPo cell:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805736544664.html

and even better is this 200Ah about the size of an average smartphone
ttps://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805979678101.html


Haven't found a 1 meeelllyuun Ah unit yet though.

 

[jetpackjbd]

Here's the latest thing I ran across on Aliexpress, with absolutely ridiculously impossible claims:

Here's one claiming 30Ah in a space about a tenth of the volume of the typical 5Ah RC LiPo cell:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805736544664.html

View attachment 344442

and even better is this 200Ah about the size of an average smartphone
ttps://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805979678101.html
View attachment 344443

Haven't found a 1 meeelllyuun Ah unit yet though.

I’ve seen worse, but still no million ah. Thinking of getting this:
Real Pls Buy 48V 99999mAH Scooter Wheelchair Ebike Battery - Aliexpress

 

[docw009]

I thought LiPo pouches and Li-ion in 18650/21700 used similar chemistry. The former are more likely to have haphazard quality though, When they are larger, they become riskier to use. No venting or circuit interrupt devoices in them. They often swell up, Is that bad quality or lack of a steel case? Anyway, I had a smaller 12V pack for my spot welder, and when it swelled up, it lost capacity,

 

[eMark]

What satire for someone to believe that "figures don’t lie" when they can be the greatest of liars without any supporting proof.​

Here's the latest thing I ran across on Aliexpress, with absolutely ridiculously impossible claims:

Here's one claiming 30Ah in a space about a tenth of the volume of the typical 5Ah RC LiPo cell:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804918491020.html?

View attachment 344442

and even better is this 200Ah about the size of an average smartphone
www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805979678101.html
View attachment 344443

Has America attempted any punitive action against AliExpress for False Advertising ... hold aliexpress in contempt for false advertising - Google Search ,,, OR ...

IF someone is gullible enuf to believe such "absolutely ridiculously impossible claims" they have only themselves to blame.

 

[jetpackjbd]

What satire for someone to believe that "figures don’t lie" when they can be the greatest of liars without any supporting proof.​

Has America attempted any punitive action against AliExpress for False Advertising ... hold aliexpress in contempt for false advertising - Google Search ,,, OR ...

IF someone is gullible enuf to believe such "absolutely ridiculously impossible claims" they have only themselves to blame.

AliExpress seems to have decent control of their listings. I assume the reason there aren’t any “1000000AH LITHIUM BATTERIES” for sale is AliExpress takes them down. Listings like the 200ah smartphone sized pack don’t get noticed by moderators because, at a quick glance, nothing seems unusual. 200ah batteries exist and it’s not a big enough number to sound fake by itself. Unless every mod knows enough about batteries and checks all listings thoroughly, sellers won’t get caught until a report comes in. Even then, they get thousands of reports a day and can’t be expected to take action quicker than the reports come in.
I’m not saying AliExpress isn’t junk, or that I support the CCP; there’s just not much the US can be expected to do about a foreign company that at least tries to be not-garbage outside of flat out banning it (which no one wants)

Anyways, the thread is getting a bit off topic although I don’t mind continuing the conversation

 

[DanGT86]

I have run these in scooters and in a 1500watt ebike at 3c peak discharge. They are easy to work with and adapt using xt-60 connectors to series and parallel.

You could probably get 6 of them in your space and have a 26v nominal 30ah pack.

7s is also a convenient size to series into 14s for faster ebike projects. I feel like these are basically as versatile as lipo but way safer.

Obviously they lack the power density of lipo but they are small and easy to parallel up.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1556644948...dByrLA5iifwfWE3iylp4zM84oB|tkp:Bk9SR8jJ7P6NYw

 

[eMark]

AliExpress seems to have decent control of their listings. I assume the reason there aren’t any “1000000AH LITHIUM BATTERIES” for sale is AliExpress takes them down.

Did you mean to say 1000000mAh (instead of AH) or just a little tongue-in-cheek AliExpress "Sketchy" jest?
So do you think the following 100000mAh (100Ah) are legit capacity ...

https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-100000-battery.html

Here's an AliExpress 48v 200000mAh (200Ah) 20000W 13S3P with BMS 2A charger for $57.24 (free shipping) ... "Sketchy" ...

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805978724021.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.0.0.65fa66f4VrAsCc&gps-id=pcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.40050.362094.0&scm_id=1007.40050.362094.0&scm-url=1007.40050.362094.0&pvid=f1bd7901-fcef-4a80-8731-27533f1b19ba&_t=gps-id:pcDetailTopMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.40050.362094.0,pvid:f1bd7901-fcef-4a80-8731-27533f1b19ba,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238113%231998&isseo=y&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%21114.49%2157.24%21%21%21812.00%21%21%402101fb1617027599583685813ed641%2112000036066411551%21rec%21US%21%21AB

 

[999zip999]

DrkAngle has a lot of threads about that motor those controllers and different batteries that he's made and how he put them together but I can't seem to find the list of his threads DrkAngle does anybody know how to access his volume of threads and could post it here. Did he have a falling out ?

 

[jetpackjbd]

I think I’ll just get the VISET 24v 30ah Lithium Ion Battery. It seems to be the best I can get without buying a custom made pack. Even if it degrades faster at 25-30A continuous compared to a bigger or higher quality pack, as long as it survives over 100 cycles at the very minimum I’ll be happy. Thanks for your help everyone!

 

[amberwolf]

While most of the specs at the link suggest it should be "real", the weight is rather low, suggesting a cell weight less than 2/3 of typical (or only 2/3 of the number of cells they say it has). That could just be an error in the ad, but since the item has zero reviews, and it's non-returnable (hazmat restrictions), you could be stuck with an expensive blue brick.

Feedback on the storefront itself is not great, at least a fifth of them or more are pretty bad experiences.

 

[jetpackjbd]

While most of the specs at the link suggest it should be "real", the weight is rather low, suggesting a cell weight less than 2/3 of typical (or only 2/3 of the number of cells they say it has). That could just be an error in the ad, but since the item has zero reviews, and it's non-returnable (hazmat restrictions), you could be stuck with an expensive blue brick.

Feedback on the storefront itself is not great, at least a fifth of them or more are pretty bad experiences.

Oh my god thank you for pointing out the weight. I believe the listed package dimensions and weight are done by Amazon and not the lister, so if you say it’s too low then it probably is.

 

[amberwolf]

If you google "18650 cell weight" you'll find a variety of listings, but somewhere in the 45-50g range is typical. The pack says it is 7s 10p, so made of 70 cells. The actual seller description (not the part created by amazon) says it is 2.65kg total pack weight, so that divided by 70 cells is 0.0378571428571429 or about 38g. Since that weight has to also include the wrapping, interconnects, BMS, etc., you can take some off for those, which might leave you with say, 35-36g/cell, significantly less than the average cell weight.

I haven't done the math for the actual pack size (which you can also do based on the cell dimensions of 18mm x 65mm, etc).

Personally, I won't buy something online from any page with either no reviews (unless it is a site like ebikes.ca that I already trust), or any significant amount of rationally-written bad reviews (especially if they are for technical problems or seller customer service). I also always look at negative reviews first and weight those much higher than positive ones, since many people with problems don't say anything about them publicly (or are bribed or coerced into removing them by the seller before fixing the problem, which is very common).

About this item​

• Specification: 24V 30Ah battery. Size:10.03*4.72*2.75inch. Light weight: 2.65kg, Compatible with 100-800W motor, With upgraded light indicator. When the charger is working normally: from red to green.
• The battery pack consists of 7 series and 10 parallel configurations, and each individual battery has a capacity of 3000mAh.
• Enhanced with a 30A Battery Management System. Featuring a T-Plug connector and a 29.4V 5A rapid charger. The Charge cut-off voltage at 29.4V, while the discharge cut-off ends at 20.3V.
• Long Service Life: Each lithium battery undergoes quality control checks for both appearance and function before being shipped. The charge cycle of the Ebike battery exceeds 1000 times, with a life expectancy of up to 5 years.
• Warranty Policy: 30 day free return, 1 year quality assurance, if the ebike battery damaged within one year, we offer free repair service in USA. For any question just let us know

 

[nicobie]

Careful: Also in the specs it says the battery is a SLA

 

[amberwolf]

I couldn't find "SLA" anywhere on the page except where Amazon compares it to other items available on Amazon, one of which is listed as SLA?

 

[jetpackjbd]

I couldn't find "SLA" anywhere on the page except where Amazon compares it to other items available on Amazon, one of which is listed as SLA?

The Amazon category for the listing is SLA; I think it’s just a mistake. The seller has decent reviews and many sales of the 10AH version which is the only reason I’d consider the 20AH version. Weird no one seems to be buying any other capacities though