Sketchy Battery Pack?

I guess that's another comparison you can use to decide "reality":

24v 10Ah, all other available specs the same (except 15A BMS vs 30A), is $179, while a 24v 30Ah is only 279. If the cells cost so little that it isn't nearly triple the cost for triple the capacity, they're probably not very good cells, if they're even "real". ;)

The smaller pack doesn't give weight or dimensions, so those aren't comparable.
 
Alright, I’ve once again decided against the questionable Amazon packs. I found a local company that manufactures drop in replacement lithium packs at a decent price with trustworthy cells and data. Unfortunately, their packs seem to suffer from the same issue of not being able to handle enough current, however I just sent an email asking if they could handle closer to 20A continuous instead of the listed 12A without the BMS tripping or significant cell degradation, or if they had something that could within my space constraints. Hoping to hear back soon, I’d much rather support a small business than a company from China that likely has no customer support, will be shut down in months, and provides fake data.

My only concern about this company is that they have “LITHIUM-ION” on their batteries but claim to have LiFePO4 chemistry. Probably a simple mistake, but for a company that claims to be made of battery experts it’s a bit concerning. I mean technically I think there’s lithium and ions floating around in a LiFePO4 battery, but that’s not typically how they’re labeled.

Here’s their website incase anyone in Florida (or anywhere) is looking for a (presumably) good lithium pack supplier!
 
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My only concern about this company is that they have “LITHIUM-ION” on their batteries but claim to have LiFePO4 chemistry. Probably a simple mistake, but for a company that claims to be made of battery experts it’s a bit concerning. I mean technically I think there’s lithium and ions floating around in a LiFePO4 battery, but that’s not typically how they’re labeled.

Here’s their website in case anyone in Florida (or anywhere) is looking for a (presumably) good lithium pack supplier!
The one thing we've learned is to preferably buy a 7s5p-6p (18650) pack instead of an overrated 7s3p (18650) pack for any hope of meeting your specs (30A energy rating & 30Ah capacity). For example Samsung 25R 20A, 2500mAh cells (7s6p=120A, 15Ah) ... instead of say LG MJ1 10A, 3500mAh cells (7s3p=30A, 10.5Ah). A few years ago the Samsung 25R (20A) cells were the favorite for the majority of 18.0V power tool battery packs. Even so 42 cells (7s6p) at $3.75 ea comes to $158 just for the cells.

The impossible challenge is finding a 7s5p-6p battery with name brand A-Grade cells, nickel plated bus bars, quality BMS with good 2A charger under $400 that will fit in your available space of 6.8”x 8.5”x 3.9”. The closest 7s6p i came across had a length of 9.1" (still too long), and no guarantee they are A-grade brand name cells and nickel plated bus bars.
_________________________________​

"The Chargex® CX25 - 12V 25AH Lithium Ion Battery features the latest and most advanced Lithium Iron Phosphate - LiFePO4 Battery Technology" ... Any lithium ion battery advertised as "deep cycle" is most likely LFP chemistry.
$
PROBLEM:
There isn't enuf space (6.8”x 8.5”x 3.9”) to fit either two 12v (24v) Chargex or one 24v Chargex in available space. Besides even if they would fit can you afford to spend that much ... $400 (2-12V 25Ah) or $700 (1-24V 25Ah)
 

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They're all Lithium Ion types; LiFePO4 is one of a number of chemistries actually used to implement the type. LiTi (LTO) NMC, NCM, etc., are other variations.


FWIW, most companies (even ones that say they do) don't make their own cells or batteries, but just buy them from some company in China that stamps the chosen brand name on them. Sometimes companies actually understand what they're ordering and have them custom-built to specific designs with specific cells, but it doesn't seem to be typical. :(

I haven't done any checking on the linked company's claims in it's "about us page" that implies they (ChargeX) actually manufacture their own stuff in the USA and elsewhere, but that they are still working on opening a manufacturing plant in the USA. (which contradicts their first statement...unless they don't actually make their own stuff yet but are only about to start)

copied from that page
  • 2023 COMPANY INTRODUCTION

Global Presence:
CHARGEX® Lithium Battery Engineers have over 25 years’ of combined experience manufacturing LiFePO4 batteries. In January 2010, our group established and pioneered the world’s first drop-in replacement lithium batteries. Over a decade later, our lithium ion batteries are the industry standard for lead acid replacements.

Factory Overview:
CHARGEX® sets the highest standards of performance, we have multiple factories in the United States and around the world that are selected with precision insight into providing exceptional products and a commitment to integrity. Our exclusive relationships with these factories are an effort by our founders and engineering group to provide our clients with the highest quality and most reliable batteries that power the world. We are constantly renewing our relationships to ensure quality and integrity is maximized to improve the products we manufacture.


United States Manufacturing Plant:
With the determination of our team and the demand to bring lithium battery manufacturing to the United States, CHARGEX® has started multiple acquisitions and established its first United States based battery cell assembly plant in Houston, Texas. This location is where CHARGEX® will soon build high-tech batteries in the U.S. Phase 1 is primarily focused on manufacturing prototype batteries for our current U.S. Aerospace & Defense Industry partners.



Technology and R&D:
CHARGEX® has been innovating the lithium battery industry since the beginning, with relationships that span a decade, we have a great team and winning culture. Our Technology and Research & Development team are constantly putting forward new patent designs that will soon revolutionize the battery industry.
Our large R&D team often pioneers battery technology that powers the globe and brings innovation to many military and aerospace institutions. Our commitment to our clients includes constant innovation with the latest technology and trends to support their development.

The History:
From 2010 to present day, the engineering group at CHARGEX® developed the world’s first plug and play, drop in replacement lithium ion battery that is now the industry standard worldwide. Throughout the past decade, hundreds of the world’s most prestigious companies and institutions have contracted our engineers to develop and produce highly customized, specialty lithium batteries for applications ranging from satellites and submarines to aerospace and naval military applications. These prominent organizations engaged with our engineers to conceptualize, design, engineer and manufacture Class A Lithium Iron Phosphate Batteries where quality and safety were vital to their mission critical applications.

Key Historical Accomplishments:​

2010: We pioneered drop-in replacement lithium ion batteries to replace sealed lead acid (SLA) batteries
2012: In Q1 of 2012, we established an exclusive relationship with the world’s 3rd largest lithium ion battery manufacturer
2012: In Q1 of 2012, we received orders from General Motors to provide lithium ion batteries for robotics equipment.
2012: In Q4 of 2012, we developed custom fabrication and molding equipment for the design and mass production of drop in replacement lithium batteries.
2013: Established US based distribution networks providing exclusive territories for plug and play lithium ion batteries.
2014: Established multiple overseas automation plants for manufacturing and assembly of battery cells/packs to increase production capacity to more than 500,000 cells per day
2014: Started our 2 year safety and approval testing with Boeing.
2014: Received orders from the U.S. Naval Surface Warfare Division for customized lithium ion batteries to meet target performance and size requirements.
2016: Received the approval from Boeing after 2 years of safety and approval testing.
2017: Awarded NASA Aerospace Lithium Battery Project for Defense Technology
2018:
Awarded Navistar High Voltage EV Pilot Project
2018: Awarded the Customized Subsea prototype project from Boeing for U.S. Defense applications.
2019: Established United States battery and charger brand “CHARGEX®”, to promote and establish United States lithium battery manufacturing for commercial and industrial applications.
2021: Established a new retail facility in Tampa, Florida to accommodate consumer demand for plug and play lithium batteries.
2021: Established a new assembly and manufacturing facility in Houston, Texas to develop Industrial and Specialty Defense Projects.
2022: Awarded NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratories, U.S. Rover Mission for a Sub-Surface Robotic Application in the Antarctic
2022: Awarded project for Nokia telecom application replacing lead acid batteries with highly customized lithium batteries to meet new government regulations
2022: Awarded U.S. Naval Surface Warfare project for a large scale, customized solutions across all 12 active aircraft carriers.
 
Here's a small 24 volt battery The Price is Right with BMS.

 
Here's a small 24 volt battery The Price is Right with BMS.

Size and specs are near what I need, but at that price I highly doubt it’s legit. Seems to be a decent company but for $40 there’s no way it’s even close to what I need. I don’t believe any LiFePO4 cells are capable of 24A continuous in that configuration. I sent them an email asking about the battery although I don’t know what good it’ll do as they could just lie again about it, but we’ll see. Thanks for the recommendation!

I’m still planning to check out the company near me soon, unfortunately I’m terrible at talking on the phone so I’m just trying to get the courage to call.
 
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I doubt batteryhookup would lie besides the data sheet is from the manufacturer. These are many LiFePO4 cells capable of 25A discharges. The batteries are used but for the price which is about 10th of new you could get a few use the best. Here the k2 web site K2 Energy Solutions, Inc .
I don’t believe any LiFePO4 cells are capable of 24A continuous in that configuration. I sent them an email asking about the battery although I don’t know what good it’ll do as they could just lie again about it, but we’ll see.
The battery is 8s3p so each cell only provides 8A of the 24A.
LaterFloyd
 
I doubt batteryhookup would lie besides the data sheet is from the manufacturer. These are many LiFePO4 cells capable of 25A discharges. The batteries are used but for the price which is about 10th of new you could get a few use the best. Here the k2 web site K2 Energy Solutions, Inc .

The battery is 8s3p so each cell only provides 8A of the 24A.
LaterFloyd
Ohh, I didn’t realize they were used. That explains why it mentioned being used in hospital computers. Thanks for pointing that out, now I feel a little silly for leaving an email essentially asking if they were scamming me or not (in more professional terms).
I’m hoping they’re not too degraded though, I can’t imagine someone replacing batteries that were still above 75% capacity unless there’s a policy to change them every 3 years or so. Definitely considering these now! Two should fit perfect inside my scooter
 
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If these were actually mounted to cows on a hospital floor, these things are gonna be just wacked.

I started my Uni career going medical. I did not complete it, but a bunch of friends did, I have fixed numerous bits of kit over the years and *EVERYTHING* I have ever fixed has done hard time in the body and fender shop.

I have bought replacement battery packs that were "never deployed" and found that literally every one of them had been used and put back completely worn out.

Just my experience, do let us know how it turns out if you do order.
 
If these were actually mounted to cows on a hospital floor, these things are gonna be just wacked.

I started my Uni career going medical. I did not complete it, but a bunch of friends did, I have fixed numerous bits of kit over the years and *EVERYTHING* I have ever fixed has done hard time in the body and fender shop.

I have bought replacement battery packs that were "never deployed" and found that literally every one of them had been used and put back completely worn out.

Just my experience, do let us know how it turns out if you do order.
Good to know, I had a feeling they would’ve been treated like that. Being LiFePO4 makes me feel a bit better as they last forever, but the age of the packs is unknown. Oldest post I can find about this specific model was from ~2015 but they could be older, or much newer. It’s a gamble, a cheap gamble but a gamble nonetheless.
 
Medical professionals work hardware like it is just a tool and if lighting it on fire helps, they are absolutely okk with that.

Bless em one and all. I got brought back from deaths door a couple times, and once after slinking in to check out the lobby (woke up with 4 bags in me and them trying to get a mainline in, I ran a few quartz low)

so the hardware is rugged, but man is it worked hard.
 
Medical professionals work hardware like it is just a tool
Well, it is. ;)

(there are some instances for me where something is not *just* a tool to get some job done, where I over time feel some affinity with it thru many usages and interactions, but mostly, to me, that's what most of this stuff is...)
 
Alright, so ChargeX got back to me about their 12ah model. It doesn’t have over current protection meaning it could draw the 20-25 amps continuous without shutting off, however the lifespan of the battery will definitely decrease. I’m not sure about spending $230 on batteries that might only last a few hundred cycles for a scooter that looks like it belongs in the trash.
I’ve decided to go ahead and buy one of the used 24v packs from batteryhookup, and maybe buy a second if the battery turns out ok. I’m hoping it does work out although I’m not expecting it to. I’d love to have my scooter be mostly reused components
 
It arrived today, and the battery is good! Fits just fine and is just about the same size as a single 12V 12AH SLA at a fraction of the weight. I tested it out and went around 7 miles before dying, although when I plugged it in for a few seconds it came back to life and displayed 26.2V still. The BMS might be shutting the battery off too soon but I don’t mind too much, it just means I can’t rely on the battery meter. I plan to buy a second one to put in parallel so I don’t stress the battery too much and get more range, but so far it’s doing good! Thank you for the recommendation!
 
You have a 24 volt charger what kind of charger is it ? Did you charge the battery before your test ride or just take it out the box and run it to a died ? Important questions to be answered.
Fully charged 8x3.5volt or 28v.
Can this battery be easily opened up it's best to check all eight cells none below 2.5 volt and never overcharged one of the eight cells above 3.7 volt it'll settle down to probably 3.5 volt and there's no reason to ever charge above 3.5 volt on lifepo4 chemistry. 20 volts is the lowest you should ever discharge that battery I wouldn't even discharge it that low.
 
Can we get a picture of what you are using this for and can we get a picture of the size of the battery box ? What voltage was it when it arrived ? What voltage was it when it cut off ? What is the highest voltage you can charge it to ? What is the voltage of your charger at final charge ? Four questions four answers thank you very much.
 
You have a 24 volt charger what kind of charger is it ? Did you charge the battery before your test ride or just take it out the box and run it to a died ? Important questions to be answered.
Fully charged 8x3.5volt or 28v.
Can this battery be easily opened up it's best to check all eight cells none below 2.5 volt and never overcharged one of the eight cells above 3.7 volt it'll settle down to probably 3.5 volt and there's no reason to ever charge above 3.5 volt on lifepo4 chemistry. 20 volts is the lowest you should ever discharge that battery I wouldn't even discharge it that low.
I have a 24V SLA charger that charges at 28V. I plan on getting a real LFP charger at some point but the battery claims to be compatible with most SLA chargers. I did charge it before riding however it seemed to be fully charged when it shipped. The battery might be able to be opened up but I don’t really want to mess with it, I’m just happy it works.
 
Kool a sla will charge it if it stops at 28 volts. I look Irene I try to help you solve your problems please answer all my questions. Please.
Never leave a lifepo4 battery on a SLA charger after it charges to 28 volts. Leave a lead on a SLA charger is only for lead acid batteries. Yes a lipo for charger wheel shut off and shut on but in a different formula. .. But but it can be done with care. Use this battery and please for our information report back here please don't disappear as we would like to know how this $40 battery works out yes it's important.
 
Kool a sla will charge it if it stops at 28 volts. I look Irene I try to help you solve your problems please answer all my questions. Please.
Never leave a lifepo4 battery on a SLA charger after it charges to 28 volts. Leave a lead on a SLA charger is only for lead acid batteries. Yes a lipo for charger wheel shut off and shut on but in a different formula. .. But but it can be done with care. Use this battery and please for our information report back here please don't disappear as we would like to know how this $40 battery works out yes it's important

Thanks for reminding me, I didn’t unplug it yet. This charger seems to turn off at 28v however I think it might trickle charge slightly afterwards with a very weak current.

Here’s what it looks like inside the scooter:05C41F66-110E-4943-AC1C-84584A60BCFB.jpeg
 
Depending on the type of SLA charger, they may have a float voltage to force a continuous trickle current into an SLA battery.

A lithium battery with it's own BMS to turn the charge/discharge port off will disconnect the port when it reaches full, so it won't matter what the charger does at that point...but an SLA charger may not have an "off" state like a lithium charger, where the Li charger detects some minimum current and when charge current drops below that it turns it's output off.

There are several decent pages on how SLA chargers may work (depending on their design and cheapness factor) in this list
 
Wonderful ! Be careful there's a lot of stored energy as you know if you touch the red and the black you can melt a 8 gauge wire. And or set a fire I'm just talking about stored energy lightning in a box type thinking. O.K.
$39 sounds like a great deal 24 volt 9 ah and it worked.
The important part is what are the voltages of each eight cell. You don't want one at 3.0 and another one at 4.0 and still make your 28 volts. Curious minds want to know. It looks like a beautiful product with quality cells. Time is the test and my timer starts now let me know.
 
At about a picture of your charger thanks for the photo of the battery Bay I don't know where you'd stick another battery of the same size and proportions but that'd be nice to have 18 ampere hour of battery life and that also helps but how much you draw for your motors amp.
 
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