Sondors x new bike the Metacycle

but thats gas. not an option.

for 5k you can built a great, better electric motorcycle than this one. I got sucked in for the aesthetics and seemingly good price and its waning on me already. It's waned. It's gone. back to wanting a homemade supermotard. (but then again i have two electric motorcycles i made that im trying to sell because i never pedal anymore and am getting sloppy and fat).
 
Find a used Zero motorcycle which will be a million times more well built then Sondors.
All around the same price range as the Sondors.

- 2014 Zero S 11.4 with 18k miles.

- 2011 Zero Motorcycles ZERO-S with 6k miles.








Hummina Shadeeba said:
but thats gas. not an option.

for 5k you can built a great, better electric motorcycle than this one. I got sucked in for the aesthetics and seemingly good price and its waning on me already. It's waned. It's gone. back to wanting a homemade supermotard. (but then again i have two electric motorcycles i made that im trying to sell because i never pedal anymore and am getting sloppy and fat).
 
Hummina Shadeeba said:
the controller is only maybe 300 shipped. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/VOTOL-em-200-72600-brushless-dc_62516316083.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normal_offer.d_title.306237ddVsMvw3

the battery is only 400 watthours. thats not much. im surprised because its 50 lbs and looks big


if only i could find a cool looking road motorcycle or supermotard frame

the guy doing the video seems pretty unbiased and gave a bunch of good info i thought and entertaining besides. i didnt hear him say you cant make such a bike for 5k. like him to do a breakdown of the mid-drive bike behind him.

Where are coming up with 400wh from?

55ah x 72v = 3960wh
 
I would have said it was a typo with a missing 0 but the following statement was made that 'its not much'

the battery is only 400 watthours. thats not much. im surprised because its 50 lbs and looks big
 
Theodore Voltaire said:
Hummina Shadeeba said:
the controller is only maybe 300 shipped. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/VOTOL-em-200-72600-brushless-dc_62516316083.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normal_offer.d_title.306237ddVsMvw3

the battery is only 400 watthours. thats not much. im surprised because its 50 lbs and looks big


if only i could find a cool looking road motorcycle or supermotard frame

the guy doing the video seems pretty unbiased and gave a bunch of good info i thought and entertaining besides. i didnt hear him say you cant make such a bike for 5k. like him to do a breakdown of the mid-drive bike behind him.

Where are coming up with 400wh from?

55ah x 72v = 3960wh
Sorry somehow I missed reading a “0” in the number. Yea it’s almost 4000 watt hours my mistake. THAT would suck but 4000 is nice.
 
They don't seem to understand electricity much.
The motor is capable of 20hp and 8kWh and a top speed of 80mph. The motor can be pushed further for a peak power of 14.5kWh.

I'm still waiting for someone (we trust) to actually test one before throwing it under the bus.
 
It "looks like" a good and useful product, but...I don't believe the range or top speed. Especially because I would not ride a large heavy hubmotor at highway speeds (50+ mph), even if it could reach it.

I've had a motorcycle license since 1976, so...I have some experience in this area. I understand the benefits of a hubmotor freeing up precious real estate in the frame.

I would not hesitate to use a large hubmotor in street traffic from 20-40 mph, and being 50-mph capable is OK for passing on smooth roads. However, 120 years of motorcycle design says to make the wheel light so when you hit an unexpected large pothole, you have the best chance of not crashing. Let the suspension do its job.

You can still wipe out at 40-mph, but I like my chances of survival at that speed much more than 70-mph on the highway with texting cars behind me...

80 miles of range? Like the video said, maybe on flat land with no wind and you're doing 20 mph...
 
spinningmagnets said:
I would not ride a large heavy hubmotor at highway speeds (50+ mph)

was looking on the web for how a heavy rear wheel would handle at higher speed and not finding anything. can you compensate with a tighter shock? then youre losing some suspension but otherwise I cant imagine how the heavy rear hub would be a detriment to performance...other than just being heavy and slower to spin up or down. (i guess gyroscopic effect would hinder turning the slightest bit but being the rear it subtly changes angle)


((since people are here:..my spokes on my rear hub creak. creaking between spokes and hub is bad news no? i didnt add washers and have seen that done. just standard j bend spokes straight laced into leaf/ebay hub and 20" regular rim with vesc doing 90 amps tops. creak a lot when hitting bumps and almost only then. WHAT TENSION IS RIGHT FOR A REAR HUB AND HOW DO YOU MEASURE IT? my old tension meter wouldnt fit if i hadnt lost it))
 
I never paid much attention to unsprung weight of a hub motor. But my guess is its more related to the heavier (motorcycle vs bicycle) and more technical rides (technical bicycle riding/races/jumping/etc) then to casual moped riders or casual bicycle riders.



1.jpg


Hummina Shadeeba said:
spinningmagnets said:
I would not ride a large heavy hubmotor at highway speeds (50+ mph)

was looking on the web for how a heavy rear wheel would handle at higher speed and not finding anything. can you compensate with a tighter shock? then youre losing some suspension but otherwise I cant imagine how the heavy rear hub would be a detriment to performance...other than just being heavy and slower to spin up or down. (i guess gyroscopic effect would hinder turning the slightest bit but being the rear it subtly changes angle)


((since people are here:..my spokes on my rear hub creak. creaking between spokes and hub is bad news no? i didnt add washers and have seen that done. just standard j bend spokes straight laced into leaf/ebay hub and 20" regular rim with vesc doing 90 amps tops. creak a lot when hitting bumps and almost only then. WHAT TENSION IS RIGHT FOR A REAR HUB AND HOW DO YOU MEASURE IT? my old tension meter wouldnt fit if i hadnt lost it))
 
Heavy wheels at high speed involve some voodoo physics.

The ideal ride is a heavy frame, with a very light wheel/tire, and the suspension spring is light and progressive, meaning it gets stiffer the more you compress it. Metal coil-springs are nice, but a cylinder with an air-spring works very well.

So you hit a bump. The wheel and tire are forced to change direction and swing upwards. In a hard tail frame, the wheel and frame act together of course, and the rear of the frame is jolted and forced to float in the air for a while.

Having a swingarm and a spring allows the upwards impulse of the wheel/tire to transfer all that sudden energy to the frame in a more spread out time frame, so it's less of a jolt, and more of a gentle push.

If the wheel is light, it responds by moving both up and down easily, while the frame is less affected.

If the wheel is heavier, then...once it gets moving up, it's harder to stop it and reverse direction. If it bottoms out the suspension spring, then at the top of the wheels' upwards travel there will be a jolt as it hits the frame.

You can install a stiffer spring, but then you will feel more of the small bumps that you didnt even feel before, and the big bumps will be even more of a jolt, and less of a gentle push, so...there is a balance each rider has to choose.

If you compare a light bike with a heavy hub, and a heavy bike with a light wheel (mid-mount motor), then...when you both hit the same bump hard, the heavy hub wheel will stay in the air longer. It's bad for the rear wheel, and VERY bad for the front wheel.

If you are in a curve (even a slight curve) and hit a bump, your bike stops traveling on a curved path, and starts traveling in a straight line. When the wheels finally come down and touch the pavement, they suddenly have traction again.

The longer the tire is in the air, the worse the correction will need to be, and you don't even have to gain airspace under the tire for this to affect you. If you hit a bump, and the front or rear wheel comes up just a little, it can still be touching pavement, but lose enough traction to start a skid.

The slower you go, the easier it is to manage. Imagine going into a fast curve, leaning over just a little, and your front or rear tire hits a piece of random debris that acts like a bump. It's not about the comfort of the rider, suspension is about not crashing when you go fast.

And I havent even mentioned spoke issues or gyroscopic issues, but others can cover that better than me.
 
I think this is probably the motor they're using (QS273) . with custom covers. QS is claiming over 80 mph, so that's probably where they're coming up with their top speed prediction. I think this is a fairly common motor so speculation about speed, handling, and range should be pretty well known, and easy to estimate for anyone familiar with it.

8000W Bicycle Motor (273) for electric Bike, Bicycle, Motorcycle.
1) Motor Type: DC Brushless Motor
2) Version: V2, V3
3) Rated Power (Continuous Power): 8000W.
4) Max. Power: 12800W (peak 16000W).
5) Voltage: 72V (option 72V-120V).
6) Magnet Height: 50mm.
7) Motor Poles: 16 Pairs.
8) Recommendation Rim: 18inch – 26inch
9) Max. Speed: 30 – 140km/h
10) Max. Torque: 50 – 266N.m
11) Brake: disc brake (220mm)
12) Dropout: 189mm
13) Hall Sensor: 2 sets (1 for use and 1 for backup)
14) Max. Working Termperature: 70 ℃ (peak 120℃ in 5 – 10 second)
15) Waterproof Grade: IP54
16) Color: Black
17) Net Weight: 20.0kgs
18) Unit Packing Size: 43x43x34cm/carton

https://www.qsmotor.com/product/8000w-bicycle-motor/
 
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/sondors-metacycle-electric-motorcycle-faces-durability-testing-before-q3-deliveries-167918.html

Considering everything that's going on in the world, I foresee major problems with on time delivery. This bike's debut couldn't be coming at a worse time.
 
spinningmagnets said:
Heavy wheels at high speed involve some voodoo physics.

The ideal ride is a heavy frame, with a very light wheel/tire, and the suspension spring is light and progressive, meaning it gets stiffer the more you compress it. Metal coil-springs are nice, but a cylinder with an air-spring works very well.

So you hit a bump. The wheel and tire are forced to change direction and swing upwards. In a hard tail frame, the wheel and frame act together of course, and the rear of the frame is jolted and forced to float in the air for a while.

Having a swingarm and a spring allows the upwards impulse of the wheel/tire to transfer all that sudden energy to the frame in a more spread out time frame, so it's less of a jolt, and more of a gentle push.

If the wheel is light, it responds by moving both up and down easily, while the frame is less affected.

If the wheel is heavier, then...once it gets moving up, it's harder to stop it and reverse direction. If it bottoms out the suspension spring, then at the top of the wheels' upwards travel there will be a jolt as it hits the frame.

You can install a stiffer spring, but then you will feel more of the small bumps that you didnt even feel before, and the big bumps will be even more of a jolt, and less of a gentle push, so...there is a balance each rider has to choose.

If you compare a light bike with a heavy hub, and a heavy bike with a light wheel (mid-mount motor), then...when you both hit the same bump hard, the heavy hub wheel will stay in the air longer. It's bad for the rear wheel, and VERY bad for the front wheel.

If you are in a curve (even a slight curve) and hit a bump, your bike stops traveling on a curved path, and starts traveling in a straight line. When the wheels finally come down and touch the pavement, they suddenly have traction again.

The longer the tire is in the air, the worse the correction will need to be, and you don't even have to gain airspace under the tire for this to affect you. If you hit a bump, and the front or rear wheel comes up just a little, it can still be touching pavement, but lose enough traction to start a skid.

The slower you go, the easier it is to manage. Imagine going into a fast curve, leaning over just a little, and your front or rear tire hits a piece of random debris that acts like a bump. It's not about the comfort of the rider, suspension is about not crashing when you go fast.

And I havent even mentioned spoke issues or gyroscopic issues, but others can cover that better than me.

That's some perfectly valid theory.
But in practice it isn't really a problem. Hub motors arent actually as heavy as people think. Sure they are heavier than most regular rims, but not always by a lot. The rotating part of the hub isn't that heavy either, most of the weight being the stationary copper windings.
I ride hub motors at more than 60mph on a daily basis, I can tell you it's really no biggie. :wink:
 
Dui said:
spinningmagnets said:
Heavy wheels at high speed involve some voodoo physics.

The ideal ride is a heavy frame, with a very light wheel/tire, and the suspension spring is light and progressive, meaning it gets stiffer the more you compress it. Metal coil-springs are nice, but a cylinder with an air-spring works very well.

So you hit a bump. The wheel and tire are forced to change direction and swing upwards. In a hard tail frame, the wheel and frame act together of course, and the rear of the frame is jolted and forced to float in the air for a while.

Having a swingarm and a spring allows the upwards impulse of the wheel/tire to transfer all that sudden energy to the frame in a more spread out time frame, so it's less of a jolt, and more of a gentle push.

If the wheel is light, it responds by moving both up and down easily, while the frame is less affected.

If the wheel is heavier, then...once it gets moving up, it's harder to stop it and reverse direction. If it bottoms out the suspension spring, then at the top of the wheels' upwards travel there will be a jolt as it hits the frame.

You can install a stiffer spring, but then you will feel more of the small bumps that you didnt even feel before, and the big bumps will be even more of a jolt, and less of a gentle push, so...there is a balance each rider has to choose.

If you compare a light bike with a heavy hub, and a heavy bike with a light wheel (mid-mount motor), then...when you both hit the same bump hard, the heavy hub wheel will stay in the air longer. It's bad for the rear wheel, and VERY bad for the front wheel.

If you are in a curve (even a slight curve) and hit a bump, your bike stops traveling on a curved path, and starts traveling in a straight line. When the wheels finally come down and touch the pavement, they suddenly have traction again.

The longer the tire is in the air, the worse the correction will need to be, and you don't even have to gain airspace under the tire for this to affect you. If you hit a bump, and the front or rear wheel comes up just a little, it can still be touching pavement, but lose enough traction to start a skid.

The slower you go, the easier it is to manage. Imagine going into a fast curve, leaning over just a little, and your front or rear tire hits a piece of random debris that acts like a bump. It's not about the comfort of the rider, suspension is about not crashing when you go fast.

And I havent even mentioned spoke issues or gyroscopic issues, but others can cover that better than me.

That's some perfectly valid theory.
But in practice it isn't really a problem. Hub motors arent actually as heavy as people think. Sure they are heavier than most regular rims, but not always by a lot. The rotating part of the hub isn't that heavy either, most of the weight being the stationary copper windings.
I ride hub motors at more than 60mph on a daily basis, I can tell you it's really no biggie. :wink:

Plus I would add that it's more of a problem for dirt bikes, than street bikes, and street bikes are about 70% of the market.
 
I guess the time is drawing near. I don't know who wrote this, but I'm guessing someone that works for Sondors.

"Look what happens when the SONDORS test crew takes an impromptu Pacific Coast Highway cruise up to Malibu last Sunday. Watch and read the surprise and delight of unsuspecting onlookers as they're offered spontaneous Metacycle test rides...
“It’s a sweet looking bike, so futuristic! And the price is what got me. It cost less than some of the parts on my other bikes. You can’t beat it!”
“It so visually appealing. Simplicity is not easy and you’ve done it well!”
“The frame is just more than a pretty face, it makes the bike feel tight and solid.”
“I loved the low center of gravity and you can feel that it’s lightweight.”
Plus SONDORS Superfan @spikeferesten popped by for a ride and raved about Metacycle on his Instagram page: “We got a close look at the production model of the SONDORS Metacycle today. Rear fender and rear lights now. Also a super comfy seat. Looking forward to putting it to use on the road.”
This is what we’ve all been waiting for…the world’s first impeccably-designed + incredibly-priced electric motorcycle.⁠
Be one of the first to experience the unrivaled performance of Metacycle. Order yours TODAY at SONDORSX.com"


276130848_2348140528817997_656847175794967053_n.jpg
 
FINALLY! Complete Metacycle CLOSEUP FOOTAGE Pre Delivery at LA Museum!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_gKwvxnBZ0&t=197s
 
fechter said:
At least it looks pretty cool.

from the previously linked jalopniki page...
“The SONDORS Metacycle is the newest extension of our mantra of ‘Electric For Everyone,’” said company founder Storm Sondors. “It was a clean sheet of paper design...


clean sheet or steve jobs level dirty crook?
do you think stormy would actually pay for design rights?
if he had then it would cost a whole lot more.

from a decade back...
040312-frog-ebike-jsh-04-500x355.jpg

https://blog.motorcycle.com/2012/04...lectric-successor-to-1985-frog-fz750-concept/
 
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