Stealth fighter with sine wave controller and cromotor

[Nanoha]

Hi Guys, I just got 2x 6KW sine wave controllers from Kathy at Sabvoton.
Controllers were packaged very well and send via Fedex. $100AUD for shipping
First impressions were: OMFG! It's heavy! The 2.2Kg spec was not a lie.
So much for switching from a 5404 to the cromotor to save some weight...
It's built like a tank and wide. So wide that the flanges protrude past the frame.
On closer inspection, all the gaps and openings were sealed with hot glue or similar.
I really can't tell that it came out of China. Probably too used to seeing the usual infineon with thin end plates and crumbling
rubber gasket.

A quick trip to bunnings warehouse got me 2 metal plates that coincidentally line up with the external holes by mounting at an
angle. 1st SNAFU was that I forgot that the original 18 fet is way longer so the top bolts won't line up.
I'll probably take Hyena's advice and just strap it down with inner tubes and duct tape.

After plugging it all in and making custom plugs, I could not get the power light to come on.
Currently waiting for a response from Kathy. Will post more once I get a reply.

 

[full-throttle]

After plugging it all in and making custom plugs, I could not get the power light to come on.
Currently waiting for a response from Kathy. Will post more once I get a reply.

Hmm.. that doesn't sound too good :?
Open it up and show us the insides please

 

[t3sla]

Its probably the enable/keyswitch wire, that ALWAYS gets me

 

[Nanoha]

It is.
Have to connect the ignition wire to positive.
Will get a video of it tomorrow.

 

[kfong]

Definitly interested in the field reports.

 

[Nanoha]

After connecting the ignition wire to positive, the red light finally turns on and the software starts displaying controller statistics etc.
The instructions included in the cd were pretty straightforward regarding auto hall detection, the wheel first jerks backwards and forwards like a sensorless controller starting up then
spins very slowly in a particular direction. After 3 minutes or so it stops telling you pass or fail. If fail just flip 2 phases and try again.
I got lucky the second time but the motor was spinning backwards, no problem just enter 1 instead of 0 in motor direction and it was all good.
Far cry from what I had to go through with the infineon.

In the video the motor spins up far quieter than with the infineon and in torque mode so I had trouble keeping a constant speed under no load.
I did notice an annoying high pitch noise similar to the old CRT screen and solar inverters.
Hopefully it's silent once I'm on the bike and I don't forget to attach the controller
[youtube]0AC2PFNjPyQ[/youtube]

Open it up and show us the insides please

The ends are sealed pretty nicely so I don't want to compromise it. Not until I get a max E
I'm sure it's identical to the photo that Kathy has posted in her post regarding these controllers.
Or are you suspecting something like the insides of Hyena's 36 fet controller? :lol:

 

[zombiess]

So do you notice any difference when riding? It didn't sound much quieter on video, then again I never heard what I consider to be a loud hub motor.

 

[Nanoha]

Didn't have time to finish mounting it as the mounting holes on the stealth are drilled for the 18 fet.
On a standard no load test, at least the switching is not audible.
After looking at your video of the Italian guys I've come to the conclusion that the cromotor is really loud compared to crystalyte however build quality more than makes up for it.
The noise is quite like a magic pie both in tone and volume.

I'll see if I can mount it by tomorrow.
If anyone has any tips on mounting please let me know.

 

[t3sla]

grey tape / cloth tape / cable ties
Can you upload a screenshot of the software calibration program

 

[Nanoha]

grey tape / cloth tape / cable ties
Can you upload a screenshot of the software calibration program

I meant something more permanent and secure.

Screenshots of the software here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=51485

 

[jansevr]

nice looking controller - glad you got it plugged up and turned on...can't wait to see/hear how it performs!

 

[Hyena]

I'll probably take Hyena's advice and just strap it down with inner tubes

hah, for clarification I was referring only to test rides. Friends don't let friends ride stealths with duct tape and inner tubes holding them together :lol:

Glad to see you got it working, I've been tied up with the family today so haven't had a chance to play with mine yet.
Interesting re: the sound, most other sinewave controllers I've heard are quieter than that. As zombiess said that didnt sound too different to the infineons.
Though I guess it's hard to judge from videos some times as they tend to amplify the sound.

Your phase wire connectors really do make me laugh. You've got a badass controller and motor combo to push bulk kilowatts through one of the most highly regarded ebike frames around, with girly pastel coloured anderson connectors on it :lol:

 

[Nanoha]

Oh! The pastel colored Andersons are my favourite. They handle approximately 23.58% more current.
Hate the default black and red ones.
In all seriousness, this is only for testing. I've noticed that they get really hot with the cromotor which did not happen with the x5404. Probably due to a bigger stator and a slightly faster wind.
Ultimately I will solder some XT150s on after the inner tubes and perhaps Velcro are attached.
I was even planning on mounting it on the battery cover but forgot about the cranks lol

Also just for you Hyena, I shall put an awesome bell on.

 

[Nanoha]

Made some "rails" with some timber tie down straps. Ugly, not very vibration proof but works (for now)

Only problem is the controller is sticking out past the frame, hope it does not interfere with my very intermittent pedaling.

 

[Trackman417]

If you don't like the vibrations, I would consider putting rubber washers in between the straps and the frame. That will help with keeping the paint from scratching and it should help prevent some vibrations.

 

[Nanoha]

Yeah, I thought about lining the metal strips with a strip of inner tube but ran out of time.
Scratching is not much of a problem, the frame has plenty of rust.
The paint just rubs off even against pine wood.
Need to find a good place to powder coat the frame once I get a new rear shock.
Speaking of which, does anyone have experience tuning rear shocks with a 13kg wheel on the other end?

 

[Hyena]

haha the bell thing is t3sla's pet hate, my comments/vid on the bell was a joke to him. But GW on fitting one to your pedal assist bicycle. And a very manly one at that :lol:

Oh and re: the shock, use what ever is used on the bomber - very similar if not the same weight and geometry

 

[Nanoha]

Of course it's a pedal assist bicycle. It's got a 200w motor and a 2A controller.
I wonder how crazy it would be if I put a standard pedal sensor on...

The bomber shock will not fit on the fighter, not by a long shot.

 

[t3sla]

haha the bell thing is t3sla's pet hate, my comments/vid on the bell was a joke to him. But GW on fitting one to your pedal assist bicycle. And a very manly one at that :lol:

Punishment for not having a bell on your bike?
Hung, drawn and quartered

I wonder how crazy it would be if I put a standard pedal sensor on...

Magnet PAS, Suicidal
Torque Sensing PAS with correctly matched algorithm, Perfect (if you have mode switching)

 

[Nanoha]

Finally enough zip ties, duct tape and velcro to do a test ride.

First thing I noticed was how smooth a torque throttle is. I can creep along very slowly without concentrating on the throttle unlike a speed based version or I can snap it all the way and wheelie.
Second was the near silence which complemented the smooth throttle perfectly.
The high pitched whine is audible if I'm riding very slowly, at higher speeds, the wind is much louder.
Frame resonance is more noticeable now that everything is so much quieter.

The cromotor is finally as smooth as a x5404 with an infineon.
I've decided to use 2x ebikes.ca molded shunts in parallel to give me a relatively small 0.5mOhm shunt.
Kind of solved the monitoring issue.

After drag racing some kid at the park on his pocket bike and coming out victorious 3 times, the controller was dead cold.
First time, his chain came off.
Second time, he stalled his engine or something.
Third time, on a 100m stretch, I beat him by probably 40m or so while ringing my awesome bell.

One strange issue was the controller would draw 7w idle. If I accelerate then coast, it would hover at around 20w or so and I can hear the high pitched noise again until I came to a compete stop.
If I don't touch the throttle and just coast down a hill, the power does not change.

Only things left are to install monster anderson connectors on the phases and wrap up the wires.

 

[Animalector]

how much did one of these bad boys cost?? was there a group buy?

Thanks
Andy

 

[Nanoha]

The sales thread here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=51485

I paid roughly $400AUD shipped.

At full power, my voltage dropped from 82v to 58.2v
A 24v drop at 148.5A. That's 3.5kw heating some shit up!
Dammit I feel short changed. I want that to go to my wheel as well!

 

[jansevr]

holy sh*t that voltage drop seems ridiculous...i've never heard of an infineon based controller dropping that much...is it just because its sine wave?

 

[Trackman417]

At full power, my voltage dropped from 82v to 58.2v
A 24v drop at 148.5A. That's 3.5kw heating some shit up!
Dammit I feel short changed. I want that to go to my wheel as well!

I dont think it works like that
Thats just voltage sag from the high demand of power from the battery's not wasted energy.
Pretty cool how its silent though

 

[jansevr]

you shouldn't be losing power because of the voltage drop or the controller. the heat should be the power x the efficiency of the motor. so if its 82v at 150 amps (12.3kw) at 80% efficiency there should be about 2460w wasted (or turned into heat in the motor). that's still a lot of heat and the motor probably isn't that efficient at those power outputs. do you have any sort of venting/cooling for the motor?