Suzuki RMZ 250 EV Restomod

[amberwolf]

I'm sure it isn't what you're going for, but I actually like the way the sanded plate looks--back when I used to scratchbuild various kinds of models and scifi props, I often had to work really hard to get that "aged patina" look.

 

[Eastwood]

I'm sure it isn't what you're going for, but I actually like the way the sanded plate looks--back when I used to scratchbuild various kinds of models and scifi props, I often had to work really hard to get that "aged patina" look.

Yeah I like the look of the sanded plate, Just not with this build as I envisioned everything blacked out. Sanded aluminum looks the best. Not quite polished aluminum but that sanded/hazy look


So I can’t decide whether to use one or two pressure valves on the side cover. What are your thoughts, should I use 2 or maybe just 1 vent?
I’m a little concerned that the vents might get hit when I drop the bike so I’m a little hesitant to put these vents on the side cover. That being said there’s nowhere to put the vents on the actual motor casing because the heat sink fins wrap all the way around the motor so there’s no flat surface to drill a hole and tap.

Option 1, one vent


Option 2, two vents

 

[amberwolf]

Yeah I like the look of the sanded plate, Just not with this build as I envisioned everything blacked out. Sanded aluminum looks the best. Not quite polished aluminum but that sanded/hazy look

I have a wierd request that might be asking a lot:

Before you do any thing else to it, can you take a few good straight-on pics of that cover, lit from the side or above, no flash? (and maybe one with a flash?) And some from the "top" so it looks like a dome, lit from a different side and from that side? And if possible, one from this angle/lighting angle:


I ask because I have been collecting some interesting textures and images to use for song and album "cover art" for the music over at my Amberwolf page, and it just struck me that this one would be nifty. (Some of Skohorod's images are going to be used (at least parts of them) this way).

So I can’t decide whether to use one or two pressure valves on the side cover. What are your thoughts, should I use 2 or maybe just 1 vent?

I expect that one should be fine; if you think a vent might get clogged or damaged you could carry a spare so you can unscrew it and replace it.

I can't imagine you'd ever have enough of a pressure difference to require two valves to relieve it.

 

[MDG]

Why is there no pressure venting on the stock? Or is there? I only see the drain hose on the drive side. Curious why you’re installing a vent

 

[Eastwood]

I have a wierd request that might be asking a lot:

Before you do any thing else to it, can you take a few good straight-on pics of that cover, lit from the side or above, no flash? (and maybe one with a flash?) And some from the "top" so it looks like a dome, lit from a different side and from that side? And if possible, one from this angle/lighting angle:
View attachment 341261

I ask because I have been collecting some interesting textures and images to use for song and album "cover art" for the music over at my Amberwolf page, and it just struck me that this one would be nifty. (Some of Skohorod's images are going to be used (at least parts of them) this way).

Sure, I will send them through PM

I expect that one should be fine; if you think a vent might get clogged or damaged you could carry a spare so you can unscrew it and replace it.

I can't imagine you'd ever have enough of a pressure difference to require two valves to relieve it.

Yeah good point. I will just keep the second vent as a backup. I was thinking of putting some type of pre-filter around the outside to prevent mud from clogging the holes. I could make several disposable pre-filters and just change the filter once its dirty.

 

[j bjork]

I would skip the vents, I think the risk of damaging them is greater than the benefit of having them. (If you cant mount them in a more shielded area)
Then make sure to seal where the wires enter the motor very well, so no water can get in there. Then hope that venting internal through the wires is enough, and if not hope that a little extra can sip though the shaft seal inside the gear reduction..

Another option would be to add a little tube where the wires enter to use as vent.

 

[Mugenski]

Gosh that factor phase wire crimp doesnt have me holding high hopes for whatever is going on inside my qs180... They lathered the end caps in silicone too. Not looking forward to opening it at all. In regards to the vent of only put one. I don't really think it's nessecary but since you have them...

 

[Eastwood]

I would skip the vents, I think the risk of damaging them is greater than the benefit of having them. (If you cant mount them in a more shielded area)

Right.. It’s just I’ve had a few motors completely rusted in the past, so I’m trying to prevent that with this pressure valve. I varnished the inside of my last two motors which worked flawlessly, and installed drain vents with removable screws. That was a lot of work not trying to do that again at the moment.

If a vent does get damaged, I could simply just replace it and keep a spare with me. But yeah, I’m still trying to find a better suitable spot.

Then hope that venting internal through the wires is enough

Let’s hope not because I used bare copper wires non tinned. lol
But yeah, the wires internally should not be able to vent in this case because of the sealed lugs and the marine grade heat shrink, everything is glued and sealed off.

But yeah in general venting can occur through the wires internally with hub motors or mid drives as I believe that’s what caused my rust problems in the past.

and if not hope that a little extra can sip though the shaft seal inside the gear reduction..

Another option would be to add a little tube where the wires enter to use as vent.

Yeah, that’s more likely for air to slip through the gear, reduction seal. That being said, I would much rather the air vent through the filter to not allow moisture in the air to get trapped inside the motor after the motor begins to cool and creates that vacuum affect. It really comes down to this, does the vent have less resistance for airflow/venting than the seals, which I think they do just by blowing through the vent. The vent definitely has some resistance, but I’m able to blow through it slightly.


But yeah, in a perfect world I should strip this motor all the way down and varnish like I’ve done before. If these motors are varnish correctly, one could then just drill small drain holes in the bottom. The only reason I don’t want small drain holes in the bottom is in case I’m riding through a river bed and that could get water into the motor and without varnish is a big no-no.
It’s too bad QS doesn’t varnish the motors from the factory.

 

[Eastwood]

Gosh that factor phase wire crimp doesnt have me holding high hopes for whatever is going on inside my qs180... They lathered the end caps in silicone too. Not looking forward to opening it at all. In regards to the vent of only put one. I don't really think it's nessecary but since you have them...

I grade the factory crimp a B+ lol
It’s not the worst but certainly could have been crimped with more force.

If you do open it, just take your time because it’s a lengthy process. Also, once you have the motor opened, you could consider replacing the seals and bearings with something quality. Almost every bearing from the factory of QS motors I’ve had to replace. I’m guessing the bearings are just cheap quality.

And to your point about the vent, not being necessary, it certainly is in this case because I’m constantly riding through mud and water on Enduro trails so I have to do something to prevent moisture from building up in the motor. In fact, there was already slight rust inside this motor and I haven’t even used it but maybe 20 rides.

 

[Eastwood]

Why is there no pressure venting on the stock? Or is there? I only see the drain hose on the drive side. Curious why you’re installing a vent

Yeah, that would be nice if there were pressure vents installed from the factory but companies just don’t take the time or spend the money to do this. I did recently see a speed controller that comes with a vent. Can’t remember the brand.

Installing the vent ultimately will help prevent rust. When the motor heats up, it creates pressure inside the motor. Once the motor begins to cool down that pressure lessons and somewhat creates a vacuum affect pulling air inside the motor. if there’s moisture in the air you now have water trapped inside the motor. Then this builds up through time creating more and more rust. So basically, installing the vent has more to do with preventing rust.

 

[MDG]

I’ve been doing this with all my 138’s but I’m assuming you drain the original gear oil and refill? Are you filling it like a differential to where it starts to seep from the fill plug? Also what viscosity are you using?

 

[Eastwood]

I’ve been doing this with all my 138’s but I’m assuming you drain the original gear oil and refill? Are you filling it like a differential to where it starts to seep from the fill plug? Also what viscosity are you using?

Actually, I only pulled the side cover on the phase wire/hall sensor side. I haven’t messed with the gear oil yet, but I need to look into this as well. You could ask the QSmotor member that’s on ES, he has an open thread for questions. I would also like to know what’s the recommended gear oil and how much.

QSMOTOR,0.5-12kW Electric Hub Motor & Mid Drive Motor Manufacture China

Are there any plans to build the 20kw motor also in a 13" 3,5 or 4" rim? How do the ventilation openings affect the driving in the rain or in winter when the roads are sprincelt with salt?

endless-sphere.com

 

[MDG]

Rad, I asked QS before and he told me 85W-140 but didn’t specify the amount.

 

[Eastwood]

Picked up this ip67 120mm fan for the controller. Went with the 2000rpm model because it really quiet 29,7 dB(A) compared to the 3000 or 4000 RPM fans.
It has rubber boots on the comers to help with vibration, which is a nice touch.



As you can see in this picture, I’ve use some tape to help direct the airflow through heat sink fins. I first tried using the fan, pulling the air away from the heat sink, but it was bogging down the fan. I then switched blowing air into the heat sink and it flows much better that way. I can feel the airflow shooting out both ends of the controller, through the heat sink canals.


Will use this thermostat to control the fan. The display will be Hidden out of sight. Set it and forget it



I did have to lower the controller 3/4 of an inch so the fan would fit under the gas tank lid.

Got the BMS display installed.


Then this will be my temperature display for the motor and controller temp, as this display has 2 temperature sensors. Red will be the motor temp and blue will be the controller temp.


I took Amberwolf suggestion and put this RFI Shielding Wire Mesh over the hall sensors wires. And then put marine grade heat shrink over the copper mesh so mud can’t get trapped in between the metal fibers.


Will drill a separate hole in the motor for these hall sensor wires to exit.

 

[speedy1984]

You can set the fan to come on in the vesc app to switch on at a given temp or like me was after 10seconds or after throttle is applied.Also used the same display and sensors in my first ever build and was about as waterproof as a toilet roll unfortunately.As the motor and controller both as you know have temp information already from factory i would be more concerned about battery temps data on a ride.The ant bms has x4 sensors you should bury deep in the pack but display is bulky and ugly.Be nice if someone wrote some code and added battery temps in the vesc app.Just use an old phone bar mounted that's has everything under one roof in terms of rtd.

 

[harrisonpatm]

Will use this thermostat to control the fan. The display will be Hidden out of sight. Set it and forget it

Devil's advocate. Why are you using a thermostat at all? Why not just wire it directly to your 12v output, which would turn it on as soon as you start up your bike, and run all the time? My 3 reasons for this thought: First, it's not like it's a huge parasitic draw that will eat up your battery power. I found one review online saying this model fan only consumes 0.6W, which is practically nothing compared to a single throttle twist. Secondly, if it starts running as soon as you turn the bike on, it's pre-cooling the controller's heatsink before you even get going, which will temper upcoming heat increases. Whereas if you use a thermostat, the thermostat waits until the controller heats up first, before it turns on the fan to cool it off. Thirdly, in my opinion, the thermostat is just one more component, one more addition to your wiring harness, one more component that potentially can break and need to be replaced later. I personally like to have all of my projects with as few components as possible.

This is of course all my personal opinion. You obviously have your reasons for wanting it thermostat-controlled, just wanted to bring up a different method for others who are reading this.

I first tried using the fan, pulling the air away from the heat sink, but it was bogging down the fan. I then switched blowing air into the heat sink and it flows much better that way. I can feel the airflow shooting out both ends of the controller, through the heat sink canals.

Definitely the way to go, this is how 3d printers do it. One time I was replacing my printer's fan, and I installed it backwards and didn't notice. The heatsink then had no cooling whatsoever and I had to clean out a massive filament jam.

Another thought. You obviously got a really great $25 fan for its IP67 waterproof rating, but I can't picture where the fan is in relation to the rest of the build. Is it going to encounter mud, dirt, dust, rocks, other debris? Especially with your style of trail riding. I'm wondering whether it's going to be physically damaged by something other than just water, like a rock/pebble hitting it and snapping off a blade.

If that's the case, perhaps you can go with super cheap PC fans of the same size. They're practically disposable, I've got a box of 40-50, all from leftover projects or scrap processing. Ride it for a few trails until it breaks, swap it out. Just a thought.

 

[Eastwood]

You can set the fan to come on in the vesc app to switch on at a given temp or like me was after 10seconds or after throttle is applied.Also used the same display and sensors in my first ever build and was about as waterproof as a toilet roll unfortunately.

Yeah I wouldn’t expect those temperature displays to be waterproof. I made them waterproof by adding silicone. They’re basically potted now. Did the same with my other builds never had an issue.

As the motor and controller both as you know have temp information already from factory i would be more concerned about battery temps data on a ride.

I’m concerned with all three but the battery is the least of my concern because it’s over built. Will be using less than 50% of the discharge rate most of the time. So heat should not be an issue with the battery. My bus bars are 4.5 pounds of copper plus about another 3-ish pounds of discharge wires. Do you really think battery temp is a concern with this build? The motor is the weak link and that’s why I need to watch the temperatures. The battery temperature will be displayed on the BMS display. So all three components I will be able to see temps conveniently located in one spot.

but display is bulky and ugly.

Lol Definitely comes down to opinion. The BMS displays will mainly be used as my voltage display and battery temp.

Just use an old phone bar mounted that's has everything under one roof in terms of rtd.

So the displays is bulky and ugly, but you think an old phone displayed on the handlebars is not? I don’t like stuff on my handlebars, I like to keep it nice and clean. That’s why the BMS display is installed flush and out-of-the-way on the gas tank. Much cleaner than having some old cell phone strapped to your handlebars

 

[speedy1984]

Yeah I think it's just down to taste and I can help you there

 

[Eastwood]

Devil's advocate. Why are you using a thermostat at all? Why not just wire it directly to your 12v output, which would turn it on as soon as you start up your bike, and run all the time?

Because I simply don’t want to hear the fan running all the time. It’s not needed, the controller should not have temperature issues either but it’s just for those really hot months in the summer when I’m really pushing the bike I will then need the fan. In the winner, the fan may not even turn on because I will be using less than half the rated discharge rate of the controller most of the time.

My 3 reasons for this thought: First, it's not like it's a huge parasitic draw that will eat up your battery power. I found one review online saying this model fan only consumes 0.6W, which is practically nothing compared to a single throttle twist.

Yeah the power draw is the least of my concerns. The fan pulls 1.1watts which is nothing.

Secondly, if it starts running as soon as you turn the bike on, it's pre-cooling the controller's heatsink before you even get going, which will temper upcoming heat increases. Whereas if you use a thermostat, the thermostat waits until the controller heats up first, before it turns on the fan to cool it off. Thirdly, in my opinion, the thermostat is just one more component, one more addition to your wiring harness, one more component that potentially can break and need to be replaced later. I personally like to have all of my projects with as few components as possible.

Yeah, there’s no simplicity about this build lol

This is of course all my personal opinion. You obviously have your reasons for wanting it thermostat-controlled, just wanted to bring up a different method for others who are reading this.
Definitely the way to go, this is how 3d printers do it. One time I was replacing my printer's fan, and I installed it backwards and didn't notice. The heatsink then had no cooling whatsoever and I had to clean out a massive filament jam.

Another thought. You obviously got a really great $25 fan for its IP67 waterproof rating, but I can't picture where the fan is in relation to the rest of the build. Is it going to encounter mud, dirt, dust, rocks, other debris?

No, there will be an enclosure around all of the electrical components. None of it will come in contact with mud or water. The airflow coming off, the controller will be directed out the enclosure.

Especially with your style of trail riding. I'm wondering whether it's going to be physically damaged by something other than just water, like a rock/pebble hitting it and snapping off a blade.

If that's the case, perhaps you can go with super cheap PC fans of the same size. They're practically disposable, I've got a box of 40-50, all from leftover projects or scrap processing. Ride it for a few trails until it breaks, swap it out. Just a thought.

Cheap fans are loud, that’s why I went with a nicer more quieter fan. Plus cheap fans break faster. I like the method of buying quality parts instead of buying cheap parts multiple times, plus the headache of having to change the fan.

 

[harrisonpatm]

Because I simply don’t want to hear the fan running all the time. It’s not needed, the controller should not have temperature issues either but it’s just for those really hot months in the summer when I’m really pushing the bike I will then need the fan. In the winner, the fan may not even turn on because I will be using less than half the rated discharge rate of the controller most of the time.



Yeah the power draw is the least of my concerns. The fan pulls 1.1watts which is nothing.



Yeah, there’s no simplicity about this build lol



No, there will be an enclosure around all of the electrical components. None of it will come in contact with mud or water. The airflow coming off, the controller will be directed out the enclosure.



Cheap fans are loud, that’s why I went with a nicer more quieter fan. Plus cheap fans break faster. I like the method of buying quality parts instead of buying cheap parts multiple times, plus the headache of having to change the fan.

All fair points. Just what was coming to mind if it was my build

 

[Eastwood]

All fair points. Just what was coming to mind if it was my build

Yeah I like to hear peoples input

 

[Eastwood]

And finished. Used ceramic engine paint, flat black. The goal was to simply repair and repaint the side cover to a factory looking finish.


Installed a timken bearing since I had the cover off. Sort of messed up the dust seal on the factory bearing with using a gear puller. Plus, we know those bearings that come with QS motors are not the best quality anyway. I’ll change the bearing on the other side if I have to open the motor for any reason.
The bearing for the side plate cover on the hall sensor size is., 15mm x 35mm by 1.1mm


Here’s a sneak peak of the color scheme of the graphics. Just got these in today, love the quality!



These were custom designed for this bike, there’s no brands, labels or writing on the graphics, just simple and clean looking. Mainly black and gray with just a touch of red . I didn’t want the graphics to be the focal point, but to simply blend in and complement the build.

So I changed the front fender with a 2023 fender for an Rmz. I think it looks much better than that huge front fender for the 07 model. Although I will have to do some modifications to the fender to get the headlight to fit. Although the headlight didn’t fit with 2007 fender either lol


The old fender

 

[harrisonpatm]

And finished. Used ceramic engine paint, flat black. The goal was to simply repair and repaint the side cover to a factory looking finish.

Looks great. Can you please briefly share your numbers of primer, sanding steps, rest time, final coats and rest times in between, ect?

 

[Eastwood]

Looks great. Can you please briefly share your numbers of primer, sanding steps, rest time, final coats and rest times in between, ect?

Started with 220 grit. There were a few spots that were just too deep so I filled the gouges with DP420, used it like Bondo. Think it’s the best filler for the situation because it can handle high heat. But yeah, all of this was so overkill. I just needed to repaint it and I end up spending a lot of time.

This was before I sanded the epoxy.

After

Once the gouges were gone I then used 400 grit to get rid of the sanding scratches from the 220. 400 grit is the best sandpaper right before paint in my opinion. It’s scuffs up the surface enough that the paint sticks really good but yet you can’t see sanding scratches, even through thin layers of paint.

Next Cleaned with isopropyl alcohol.

I then sprayed the paint directly to the metal, no primer. Put about 5 or 6 thin coats, then the rattle can nozzle sprayed a weird pattern and some-what created a run in the paint. lol. So then had to let it dry and sand out the run with 1200 grit. Also sanded the rest of the side cover with the 1200 grit, which made it very smooth and got rid of all the orange pill. Then put another 3 or 4 very thin layers.

I waited approximately 3 minutes between each coat.
I don’t always spray directly to metal without primer, but in this case, this engine paint will stick much better directly to metal. Then, as far as sanding between coats, you really don’t need to if you spray thin enough. A lot of people make the mistake thinking the very first layer needs to completely cover the surface in a solid color which it should not. Shouldn’t get full coverage of color until about the 2nd or third layer of paint.

 

[MDG]

I wonder if a solid 3D printed guard could be installed with the side cover bolts. Possibly would need to get slightly longer ones but could definitely help against further damage. May have to try this on my next 138 build! Looks great man, love the color combo!!

Edit: found this,

QS 138 70h V3 Electric Motor Guard | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for QS 138 70h V3 Electric Motor Guard at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

But was thinking more of something along these linesView attachment IMG_3144.webp