Throttle / Controller - Trouble shooting

[Getting_Dave]

Hello there and thank you for your time.
What I have is a 48v 1000w controller and a 48v 1000w front hub motor on my bicycle. I have had an issue with the half twist throttle where it lights up, has an on/off switch but it doesn’t send signal.

I ran a test with a fully charged 18650 @ 4.2 v to check the hall sensor. It was showing full voltage across +v and -v with the signal 4.1v. This is true for the second throttle I purchased as well. The hall sensor testing at low voltage from +v to signal doesn’t change when the throttle is twisted.

From the controller I have a 51v output into these throttles. I took apart one of the throttles and found a resistor on the signal wire it seems attached to the hall sensor directly.

I can only find operating voltage of 5v. Some how I have two speed controllers that are both outputting out 52v.

So do I need a specific throttle, are the controllers bad or another test for these sensors.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Balmorhea]

Throttles require a minimum of three wires: +5V, signal, and GND. Throttles that feature a battery state of charge indicator must also have a wire with full battery voltage, and those with a controller enable switch have another wire (or two) for that.

If you have 50+ volts coming out of the controller on the throttle plug, that’s for a state of charge indicator. Under no circumstances should that voltage be connected to any part of the throttle Hall sensor; it will destroy the sensor.

My advice is to use a three-wire throttle hooked up to +5V, and break out the full battery voltage to a separate voltmeter.

 

[Getting_Dave]

Thank you for the reply. Let me start with the fix you recommend so I can see if I understand.

Fix: remove red +v (48v) from the equation. Use a remote 5v source independent of the controller.

Reason: 5v remote pack from - to + used to create the required varied voltage though the signal to the controller. Effectively re-powering 0.0v~5.0v.

I can tell you that the new throttle I hooked up today is a three wire.
Throttle: Black/red/white super easy.

Controller1: Black (neg), red (48v+), yellow/blue pair (on/off switch) green (signal).

Controller2: Black (neg), red (48v+), yellow/brown pair (on/off switch) green (led power level), white (signal).

 

[Getting_Dave]

My concern now is that the controller leads may be miss marked and killing the throttles. I am figuring through the failed tests of two throttles that the controller needs to be tested.

 

[E-HP]

Battery level voltage shouldn't go to the throttle. It would only go to the controller on/off switch. Can you post a picture of your controller, with label, and one of the wires and connectors coming out of it?

 

[Getting_Dave]

Links to items:

Controller 1/Throttle1 kit: Sandinrayli 26” Front Wheel 48V... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B078X9FS9S?ref=

Controller 1:

Controller 2: Maxmartt 36V/48V 1000W/1500W... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084H94F2P?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

Throttle 2: HIAORS Twist Throttle Grip 3 Wire... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07S8GM797?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

 

[Getting_Dave]

Controller 1: brown/yellow switch bypass and removed from connector. Green (48v+ for led battery indicator), White (signal), Black - and Red (0.9v +)

Controller 2: Red (v+) rings continuity to all other wires / continuity to battery +, black (v- , continuity to battery ground, blue / yellow (switch no voltage on either), green (signal)

 

[TommyCat]

Hi Getting_Dave,

I ran a test with a fully charged 18650 @ 4.2 v to check the hall sensor. It was showing full voltage across +v and -v with the signal 4.1v. This is true for the second throttle I purchased as well. The hall sensor testing at low voltage from +v to signal doesn’t change when the throttle is twisted.

When checking for the throttle output voltage you have you meter's Black or ground lead on V-, and your Red or positive lead on the signal wire. Retest using the correct meter lead location.

I took apart one of the throttles and found a resistor on the signal wire it seems attached to the hall sensor directly.

Some throttle manufactures may put a voltage drop resistor between 5 vdc+ and ground for the specific reason of making sure full voltage output stays below the shorted throttle controller lockout voltage.


Concentrating on controller #1 in the most recent picture, with the Red, Black, White, Green, Brown, and Yellow wires into a black connector... using these wires only. And testing at the connector exposed terminal or metal connector tab. (or directly on the brown and Yellow wires...)

With your Black meter lead on the Black wire terminal, I would expect to see these values.

To RED------- ~5+vdc.
To WHITE-----0vdc
To GREEN----- Full battery voltage.
To Brown----- Full battery voltage.
To YELLOW--- Full battery voltage.

From your previous measurements, you do not have 5vdc regulated power on the RED wire. This is a problem.
Double check to see that your controller key lock, or power on circuit is ok. (YELLOW and BROWN wiring, check voltages required above.)
And that any other component or wiring that handles the 5+vdc regulated voltage is disconnected, or not shorting out.
Examples are the PAS and motor hall sensors wiring and circuitry.



Regards,
T.C.

 

[Getting_Dave]

would expect to see these values.

To RED------- ~5+vdc.
To WHITE-----0vdc
To GREEN----- Full battery voltage.
To Brown----- Full battery voltage.
To YELLOW--- Full battery voltage.
——————————————
Results from testing are:
From black >
To red - o.9v
To white - nothing
To brown/yellow (when switched)- full battery
To green - full battery

Finding: The red is not out putting 5v.
———————————————
From your previous measurements, you do not have 5vdc regulated power on the RED wire. This is a problem.
Double check to see that your controller key lock, or power on circuit is ok. (YELLOW and BROWN wiring, check voltages required above.)
And that any other component or wiring that handles the 5+vdc regulated voltage is disconnected, or not shorting out.
———————————
This test is on the bench with nothing else plugged in.
———————————-
Examples are the PAS and motor hall sensors wiring and circuitry.

 

[Getting_Dave]

Controller 1: throttle 1 (6wire)

Controller2: throttle 2(3wire)

Does this help?

With the Controller 2/ throttle 2 (3 wire) I would:
Black (V-) to Neg > black
White (O.0v) to signal > White
Red (full battery v+) to ???
Blue (no voltage) to switch???
Yellow (no voltage) to switch???

My fear is that the red is the switch pos and the blue OR yellow is the switches leg. That would make the blue OR yellow the power (after switched closed) to make a 5v pos for the throttle.

 

[TommyCat]

For controller #1 , 6 wire throttle...

Check to see if you have 5+vdc available at the motor's hall sensor(s) connector on the Red (5+vdc) and Black (ground) wires?
If not, I'd say it would be time to open up the controller and verify at the board that the brown wire terminal has full battery voltage. Check around for any damaged components or wiring. And then to see if the 78L05 voltage regulator is damaged, or has power going to it and power out of it (5+vdc). Use these links for pin-outs...
https://components101.com/78l05-pinout-equivalent-datasheet and
https://components101.com/sites/default/files/component_datasheet/LM78L05 Datasheet.pdf

While your in there, right down the PCB's terminal designation for each wire going to the throttle.

With the Controller 2/ throttle 2 (3 wire) I would:
Black (V-) to Neg > black
White (O.0v) to signal > White
Red (full battery v+) to ???
Blue (no voltage) to switch???
Yellow (no voltage) to switch???

My fear is that the red is the switch pos and the blue OR yellow is the switches leg. That would make the blue OR yellow the power (after switched closed) to make a 5v pos for the throttle.

For a throttle connection typically full battery voltage has no business being on a RED wire...
I agree with your assessment that the typical key lock circuit/ throttle sensor wiring colors may have been changed.
A five wire connection with colors like this is often used for a panel display. (NOTE: isn't the controller throttle signal wire GREEN?)

I would also recommend opening up the controller case and tracing the colored wires back to the PCB. Then recording the stamped terminal designations on the board for each wire and sharing. Perhaps this will shed a light as to what each one is...

Just verifying... you have used both controllers with these throttle connections successfully in the past?

And have your throttles checked out correctly by bench testing?

Thank you for the diagrams and pictures! Every little bit helps. Can never get too much.

 

[Getting_Dave]

Controller 1: this is the fix.

Controller has a fried contact. This copper ribbon was burned out.

Fix: jumper across.
Result: the board was missing the 5v. This ribbon is what was stepping the voltage down.

Throttle 3: (3 wire, new in package today) pass all tests.

Controller 1 and throttle 3: work.

Thanks for the help with diagnostic side guys!

-Dave