Wheel only runs with lerning cable
- Thread starter hesterbest
- Start date
eee291
100 kW
How is the throttle connected? the picture does not help really.
It looks like you may have parts from different "sets" being assembled together. That doesn't always work.
If you can draw out your complete wiring diagram of how you *actually* have it wired, *and* whatever diagrams you are following to get there, it may help us help you wire it correctly.
If you are replacing parts in a system, then listing everything you originally had and how it was connected, wire by wire, and then everything you now have, and how you are actually connecting it now, wire by wire, may also help us help you.
Links to each specific part's sales page can also help, as well as all available info on the original system / bike (to see what the parts on it are that you have not changed out).
If you can draw out your complete wiring diagram of how you *actually* have it wired, *and* whatever diagrams you are following to get there, it may help us help you wire it correctly.
If you are replacing parts in a system, then listing everything you originally had and how it was connected, wire by wire, and then everything you now have, and how you are actually connecting it now, wire by wire, may also help us help you.
Links to each specific part's sales page can also help, as well as all available info on the original system / bike (to see what the parts on it are that you have not changed out).
orcasprout
1 W
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2022
- Messages
- 51
Did you figure this out? I'm in the same boat.
I'm working with a replacement (AliExpress controller and EN06 display UART#2) trying to repair a Swagtron EB7+. The display was soaked through with water. I decided to replace both controller and display.
I get an Error code 07 (motor fault).
Basically the motor only runs when the self-study/learning cable is connected. Disconnect it, no power. If I then turn the throttle, nothing happens.
Starting over (battery off then reconnected) and the motor is running (with the self-learn plug connected) if I turn the throttle all the way, it changes the motor direction. The throttle does not effect the speed of the motor spinning, it only reverses the direction when at full twist.
Ebrakes, PAS, and lights are not connected yet.
Interestingly, (with the learn line connected) the motor speed is variable by changing the PAS settings on the display. The error code goes away when I change the PAS settings but when I disconnect the learn line, no power and no throttle.
What am I missing?
Thanks!
Supplier's procedure:
I'm working with a replacement (AliExpress controller and EN06 display UART#2) trying to repair a Swagtron EB7+. The display was soaked through with water. I decided to replace both controller and display.
I get an Error code 07 (motor fault).
Basically the motor only runs when the self-study/learning cable is connected. Disconnect it, no power. If I then turn the throttle, nothing happens.
Starting over (battery off then reconnected) and the motor is running (with the self-learn plug connected) if I turn the throttle all the way, it changes the motor direction. The throttle does not effect the speed of the motor spinning, it only reverses the direction when at full twist.
Ebrakes, PAS, and lights are not connected yet.
Interestingly, (with the learn line connected) the motor speed is variable by changing the PAS settings on the display. The error code goes away when I change the PAS settings but when I disconnect the learn line, no power and no throttle.
What am I missing?
Thanks!
Supplier's procedure:
Connect the self-study cable first, then..
Connect these in order: the controller to battery, then hall & phase wires, then the throttle & LCD display. (Why does this order matter?)
After these connections are made:Turn on Display.
Check LCD display P03 voltage is right (it is)
The motor then runs. which means the controller and LCD display test is ok
The self-study is disconnected and turn the throttle to run the motor.
Next you can connect another function (Brake ,PAS .....)
Does it matter what assist mode you choose for whether the throttle works?
Does the throttle work if you are pedalling (triggering the PAS)? (some controllers only allow throttle use while pedalling to conform to some localities' legal codes).
Is the PAS sensor you are using compatible with that controller?
Are the controller and display designed specifically to work with each other / known for sure to be compatible? If they're not a "set", they may not be compatible, and if the controller *requires* the display to operate (they dont' usually) then it wouldn't work until it gets the right data from the display. Or the display might be sending the wrong data to the ocntroller and preventing it from operating. (there are different kinds; I see that both ads say they are "UART #2" version, but I have seen systems that use the same brand controller / display set (which *should* be compatible, and *can* talk to each other normally) where the controler from one set and the display from the other function, but not the same way, and with different reactions and limitations to input depending on how they are paired up).
FWIW, the self-study/learn isn't normally dependent on the display, but is a direct MCU function of the controller, so it shoudl work even if the display isnt' connected.
Also, the self-study usually works even if the ebrake signal is engaged (on some controllers that's with wires open, on most it's with wires shorted).
Does the throttle work if you are pedalling (triggering the PAS)? (some controllers only allow throttle use while pedalling to conform to some localities' legal codes).
Is the PAS sensor you are using compatible with that controller?
Are the controller and display designed specifically to work with each other / known for sure to be compatible? If they're not a "set", they may not be compatible, and if the controller *requires* the display to operate (they dont' usually) then it wouldn't work until it gets the right data from the display. Or the display might be sending the wrong data to the ocntroller and preventing it from operating. (there are different kinds; I see that both ads say they are "UART #2" version, but I have seen systems that use the same brand controller / display set (which *should* be compatible, and *can* talk to each other normally) where the controler from one set and the display from the other function, but not the same way, and with different reactions and limitations to input depending on how they are paired up).
FWIW, the self-study/learn isn't normally dependent on the display, but is a direct MCU function of the controller, so it shoudl work even if the display isnt' connected.
Also, the self-study usually works even if the ebrake signal is engaged (on some controllers that's with wires open, on most it's with wires shorted).
orcasprout
1 W
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2022
- Messages
- 51
Thank you Amberwolf, you're a lighthouse in a stormy sea of BS non-compatibility "looseness". I'm super grateful for all your work, I've been "sponging" your knowledge for a while. I sent you some $, rock on please.
I initially ordered just the display (EN06) thinking it'd communicate with the existing controller, but I got the E10 error code ("communications receiving failure" because of wrong COM). I emailed vendor and then purchased a recommended controller from them. I assume they are compatible...
Now with the (presumed) correct "set" I get the Error code 07 (motor fault) as described above.
PAS is not initially connected (as per instructions). After not working, I did connect PAS and tried pedaling but still no motor engagement. I tried pedaling AND throttle also to no effect.
I've no idea if the PAS is compatible but since it does not work with throttle I'm inclined to believe that my problem is upstream from this potential issue.
I was thinking that somehow the ebrake was preventing throttle so I connected the brakes but still no motor run. On the display I can see the ebrake symbol come on when I squeeze the lever.
Argh, what a confusing scenario!
Thank you for any further lines of inquiry.
I initially ordered just the display (EN06) thinking it'd communicate with the existing controller, but I got the E10 error code ("communications receiving failure" because of wrong COM). I emailed vendor and then purchased a recommended controller from them. I assume they are compatible...
Now with the (presumed) correct "set" I get the Error code 07 (motor fault) as described above.
PAS is not initially connected (as per instructions). After not working, I did connect PAS and tried pedaling but still no motor engagement. I tried pedaling AND throttle also to no effect.
I've no idea if the PAS is compatible but since it does not work with throttle I'm inclined to believe that my problem is upstream from this potential issue.
I was thinking that somehow the ebrake was preventing throttle so I connected the brakes but still no motor run. On the display I can see the ebrake symbol come on when I squeeze the lever.
Argh, what a confusing scenario!
Thank you for any further lines of inquiry.
You're welcome, and thank you, too.
Given those, it's probable that they are at least communications compatible, and likely that they are matched.
It is still possible that they have different sets of menus and values that are within those settings, or other differences that could prevent stuff from working the way you expect it to based on the settings you see in the menus, but it probably wouldn't cause a fault / error code, just unexpected results while operating.
Such as....say it has four presets for wheel size, 20, 24, 26, 29, but the controller's five presets are 16, 20, 24, 26, and it just uses a code 0, 1, 2, 3 for the dipslay to tell the controller which one to use for speed/distance measuring--none of the display's choices would match with any of the controller's actual numbers...but you have no way of knowing that, until you see a wrong speed in the display while riding, or a wrong distance measurement. AFAICT with most or all of these systems, the display does not read what actual choices the controller has, they just share a I don't think this specific thing is actually done that way, I think the display does all this internally, but it's just an example.
Another example would be that the controller supports user choice of current limits, and defaults to say, half of it's full capability. But the display version firmware doesnt' happen to have a menu for choosing current limit, so you can't change the option in the controller (you don't even know it is there!), and thus never get full power.
Or the display menu settings, when sent to the controller, use "address 0123" for "speed limit" but the controller firmware uses "address 0123" for "throttle disable", so some value of speed limit ends up enabling throttle, and other values disable throttle, and it doesnt' make any sense to the user why this happens.
While I don't know how any of the firmwares in any of these are actually written, these are the kinds of behavior I have seen with the Lishui controllers I have from different systems, vs the Kingmeter displays from each of the systems--the hardware looks the same on all of them, but the firmware is almost certainly different, as they don't behave the same when mixed as they do when matched. I expect this is similar for other systems given the results posted by various members over the years when troubleshooting mismatched stuff.
Given these other test results, it pretty much eliminates all the other common things I could think of.
To be certain, does the motor still work normally using the original controller? If it doesn't operate because the display is not working, you can bypass the display to let the controller work in default mode (whatever that happens to be) by connecting the pins on the controller side of the controller/display connector for Battery + and KSI (also called lock, doorlock, ignition, keyswitch, etc). There's usually five wires, B+, KSI, data TX & RX, ground, but there's more than one possible wire order in a connector (and wire colors don't necessarily express anything other than their color).
You can also do this test with the new controller. If it works without the display, it means the display is telling the controller something that is interfering with normal operation.
Check the pcb for extra solder that shouldnt be there, look around and under, and over everything.
You can allso take a can of computer pc air to the controller pcb. Give it a good blow dry, make sure there is zero debris, sure nothing could come in, but maybe something broke inside like a piece of solder broke off on a jump you did the other day.
You might want to go as far as getting some paint brushes from the dollar store and some 95% isopropyl alcohol and cleaning the controllers pcb, getting under the components. I'd go so far as to get a magnify glass and see every component, along with an overall view for any obvious visual damage, like puffed capacitors. I'd go so far as to look for cracks on the solder if its such a mystery to solve. I'd focus on the area around where the Learn Wires are attached to the pcb. Another thing to look for is any through hole components (like through hole resistors, even through hole logic chips) that may have too long extra wire hanging off the back side where the solder is applied, those can get bent and cause circruitry to not function properly. Could also be a loose solder joint, cold solder joint, old, crusty solder joint so if worse comes to worse you can reflow or resolder everything. Through hole being the easiest to do, surface mount parts is the tricky hard part for the home gamer. While your at it you might as well replace all the wires you require on the controller, just to be sure. Some would go so far as to even start replacing parts. I have replaced capacitors, & played with lvc circuit.
Hope you got lots of time on your hands for trouble shooting. Controllers can be cheap.
You can allso take a can of computer pc air to the controller pcb. Give it a good blow dry, make sure there is zero debris, sure nothing could come in, but maybe something broke inside like a piece of solder broke off on a jump you did the other day.
You might want to go as far as getting some paint brushes from the dollar store and some 95% isopropyl alcohol and cleaning the controllers pcb, getting under the components. I'd go so far as to get a magnify glass and see every component, along with an overall view for any obvious visual damage, like puffed capacitors. I'd go so far as to look for cracks on the solder if its such a mystery to solve. I'd focus on the area around where the Learn Wires are attached to the pcb. Another thing to look for is any through hole components (like through hole resistors, even through hole logic chips) that may have too long extra wire hanging off the back side where the solder is applied, those can get bent and cause circruitry to not function properly. Could also be a loose solder joint, cold solder joint, old, crusty solder joint so if worse comes to worse you can reflow or resolder everything. Through hole being the easiest to do, surface mount parts is the tricky hard part for the home gamer. While your at it you might as well replace all the wires you require on the controller, just to be sure. Some would go so far as to even start replacing parts. I have replaced capacitors, & played with lvc circuit.
Hope you got lots of time on your hands for trouble shooting. Controllers can be cheap.
Last edited:
I'm not sure if your reply made it to the right thread?
Since no opening of controllers or even use in riding of the new parts (that they have not gotten working yet) has been reported in this thread so far, I dont' see how they could have debris/etc on any parts of it's interior.
No jumps have been reported either, or other riding, that could cause such problems, as neither the OP nor the new poster have ridden their bikes with the new systems as they have yet to get them wired up in a way that works.
Some of the other things could certainly happen in manufacturing and cause problems even with new unused parts, and could be worth checking if other simpler tests don't find a solution.
Since no opening of controllers or even use in riding of the new parts (that they have not gotten working yet) has been reported in this thread so far, I dont' see how they could have debris/etc on any parts of it's interior.
No jumps have been reported either, or other riding, that could cause such problems, as neither the OP nor the new poster have ridden their bikes with the new systems as they have yet to get them wired up in a way that works.
Some of the other things could certainly happen in manufacturing and cause problems even with new unused parts, and could be worth checking if other simpler tests don't find a solution.
malikjordan27
1 µW
So you pretty much saying if the self wires go bad and messes up your whole bike and you have to buy a new controller
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