Why I'm pulling my Bafang BBS02

[tomjasz]

Go and buy the correct tools. They are relatively inexpensive and you will use them in the future. It's worth it.

Should also at least check for chain wear as an indicator of both chain and cassette wear when you put on a new front chainring, including a lekkie ring. Old chains on new rings is not good for them if they are worn. Chains and cassettes are relatively cheap online compared to the cost of a new Lekkie. Again, if you had bought the cassette tool, this is very simple and quick task to do.

Buying a new chain, cassette and tool is cheapest online.

A bicycle ownership hallmark moment. Tools. The first step to independent. The next is to be patient and somewhat dependent. Good searching skills, polite requests, and pictures garner great help. No need to break anything and better avoided with Lurkins spot on advice.

 

[craneplaneguy]

Since my last post I got educated on how to measure chain wear, and have decided to not replace my chain at the present time as it's shows no measurable wear. It also shifts great with no other issues so I'll leave well enough alone. I fully expected to be able to detect some stretch but the tape measure says it's OK according to what I learned on the subject. Less then 1/16" measured at the longest point.

Or....should I just replace it on general principles?

 

[tomjasz]

Cheap enough. But if it isn't a problem...

 

[speedmd]

Since my last post I got educated on how to measure chain wear, and have decided to not replace my chain at the present time as it's shows no measurable wear. It also shifts great with no other issues so I'll leave well enough alone. I fully expected to be able to detect some stretch but the tape measure says it's OK according to what I learned on the subject. Less then 1/16" measured at the longest point.

Or....should I just replace it on general principles?

Tape measure is not at all suitable to gauge chain wear in any reasonable level of precision of a short section of chain. Are you measuring the entire length? It also does not measure the roller wear, which is key to understanding pressure distribution on the cog teeth.

 

[craneplaneguy]

I measured as long a straight section as I could without breaking it and taking it off, about 24" or so. I know how to read a tape and had my reading glasses on, and damn if it didn't measure out good. But that just indicates wear on the pins I guess, your comment on roller wear being a separate issue makes sense to me.

Part of my reluctance to replace it out of hand is my ignorance of what to replace it with, I need to get up to speed on the nomenclature on chain types, no doubt all I need to know is available here. I'll replace it, the cost shouldn't break me, and I'll get a chain tool also while I'm at it.

 

[WoodlandHills]

Buy a Park Tool CC-3.2 chain gage and never wonder again if the chain is any good. Get their chain breaker too while you are at it.......

 

[tomjasz]

I have a few BikeHand tools, very nice. Equal to Park. $5.99 shipped

http://www.amazon.com/BIKEHAND-Bicycle-Chain-Indicator-checker/dp/B00811WQW0

$5.00 eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/281467354992?ul_noapp=true&chn=ps&lpid=82

 

[speedmd]

If you already have one of these, no need for anything else.

 

[tomjasz]

$5 for convenience. But point well taken! Now that I invested in one I can't imagine how I lived without it!

 

[Lurkin]

Totally possible with a steel ruler (without an edge' at the start is easier) if you do not have vernier calipers. The method is to count the number of links within a set distance. See Google for the correct number of links to distance on the ruler. Having said that, vernier calipers can be had pretty cheaply. I have a $20 digital vernier caliper which has been accurate enough for most of my purposes.

And having said all of that, I am inherently lazy and chain checking is a service item I often overlook. I purchased a Park Tool CC2 for future ease of use.

I always change a chain when I change a cassette or front chain ring. Yes, you are totally correct - you can measure the wear in the chain and still be at an acceptable level (although generally chain wear is used as a proxy to know when to change the cassette and/or front chain ring, given it normally drives the process, the chain would usually be replaced), but for me, when a chain can be obtained for $20 - $30 and the other two items are definitely more expensive, always makes sense to me to just change the chain as well, regardless. I don't spend time on worrying about whether I have the last ounce of life out of the chain because it's not worth pinching pennies over the cheapest disposable item on the bike. I tend to buy a bunch when they are on sale online. Cheap as chips.

Note: chains do not stretch (ordinarily). They wear. Wear originates from the force it is exposed to, the level of movement required, the age of the material of the chain (degradation due to rust etc) and the crud that becomes stuck within it, which grinds away between the links and those wears greater gaps in it - this is wear, not stretch. I realise you are really just describing the effect, and I am probably nit picking over what words you have used. But lets use the right terminology if we can.

As above, because I am lazy and usually do not maintain chains as well as I should, its another reason I just swap it over. New chains are crud free and come with lubricant applied. Some argue that the lubricant applied to the chain at purchase is superior to that applied retrospectively to the point where they do not bother relubricating and just change chains (I do not agree with this extreme view). This is because of the relative inability to apply lubricant to the inside of the chain where it is really needed rather than just slathering more and more on the outside.

I manually took apart every link of the last 9 speed chain I removed from my partners bike (turns out the rollers are the perfect size for washers/spacers for bidon cage bolts). This was an interesting exercise because she is very careful to oil her chain (with Shimano wet lubricant no less) very frequently. Despite the outside of the chain being wet to the eye, the inner links were relatively dry, supporting the above theory that running lubricant on the outside of the chain may not get to the inner rollers.

I have no doubt someone else will pop up with a differing view and will consider this a load of rubbish - chain maintenance is actually a complex and very debated topic and there is a variety of options/techniques for cleaning and lubrication. In the future I hope to find time to be bothered having a clean, bathe and soak system to completely clean off the chain and reapply lubricate thoroughly, but I'm not quite there yet. I'm always a (probably foolishly) little amazed at how nice a bike is to ride after a chain has been cleaned and lubricated or replaced. It can really improve the experience if it's been a while. 8)

 

[tomjasz]

I have no doubt someone else will pop up with a differing view and will consider this a load of rubbish -

That's ES! :lol:

 

[craneplaneguy]

I have vague memories of soaking my mini bike chain in oil, (taking it off and immersing the entire chain,when I was about 10. Lately, when I think of it, I use the same oil I use on the airplane control surface hinges, plain old 3 in 1 type light oil I get from my HVAC wholesaler. I like it because it comes in a squeeze bottle with a long extendable spout, so you can really pin point where it goes. It's my go to oil, probably not the best for chain lube but I always have a few bottles handy so end up using it for whatever.

New cassette, new front chain ring, old chain. That does sound pretty lame, no matter how it measures out! I'll spring for a new chain, and thanks for the tool links. Damn this is an expensive hobby ha ha.

 

[Lurkin]

Nothing wrong with total immersion, frankly, I cannot see how any other application technique could better, other than moving it whilst immersed in oil. Further, some bike lubricant manufacturers, such as rock n roll oil, recommend using it as the cleaner as well as the lubricant.

My current periodic method is to run the chain thorough a park tool chain cleaner imitation with kerosene, wash the kerosene off with meths, wash the meths off with water. Dry completely, refit, oil. Its messy, a pain in the ass and not ideal, hence why it gets put off to the last minute. Whilst it gets completely clean, the reoil process is insufficient and it the whole process uses a several relatively nasty products to get get back to the reoil position. It would be neat to find lubrication products which are not as nasty to use.

I intend to make a fixed circuit for an entire chain to run though, with a variety of brushes which it will roll though and a filtered 'catch' at the bottom to allow the oil to be captured and recycled to the top of the unit to reoil the chain. Haven't worked out the finer points as it is at the bottom of a very long list of projects to get done. I use powerlink style links with my chains, so on and off the bike/ unit will be very easy.

The best applicator for oil I have come across so far is the nipple/bottle for the Shimano oil I am currently using. Its very fine so it only allows juuuuust the right amount onto the chain. Perfect. 8)

 

[speedmd]

While on chains, I always clean with two stroke mix mainly because I always have it handy and found nothing that cleans off the stubborn build ups as easy-quickly and dries off relatively quickly and completely without feeling too gritty as does straight gas. It is also cheap and easy to deal with the left over mess. I have as most tried a host of chain lubes, but one I have switched to recently I find rather excellent. Dumonde tech lite. Does not stay wet- attract grit and grime and builds up a micro thin poly film. Chain stays squeak free for weeks after a few applications. Smells like a ester.

 

[Leebolectric]

For chain and drivetrains...
I keep three chains in rotation...
...once the THREE chains wear out, I replace the 3chains, cassette and chainrings AT THE SAME TIME.

I ride each chain for around a week, then swap to the next chain,
Masterlinks are rad, I keep extras and watch for wear on them,
The mildly used chain goes into a Mason Jar of Mineral Spirits, (any hardware store)
After a day or two in the MS jar, dry it off and the chain goes into a Mason Jar of Lube http://www.jensonusa.com/Lubricants/Finish-Line-Teflon-Plus-Lube-32-Oz
That chain soaks in the lube till it's next turn, when it will be wiped clean and dry...fully penetrated.

This process gets me the longest wear possible for cassettes and chainrings.
Once all three chains are stretched to the wear point...full drivetrain replacement time (except derailleur/shifter)
Changing a cassette without changing the chainrings AT THE SAME TIME...is a recipe for disaster. (alternate wear patterns accelerate chain wear)
(when those new rings/cogs go on...i start over with three brand new chains.)

Another big point to watch...the gooey stuff on the chain when they are new, IS NOT LUBE...it's just to stop rust.
Get that stuff off with a solvent...replace it with real chain lube...so much better

 

[Leebolectric]

Exceptions to that rule....^
I expect everyone here uses STEEL cassettes and quality 7075 T6 chainrings...and they should for longest wear and reliability.

But if someone has aluminum cassette, or a cheap chainring...they might only use TWO chains...rather than three because the Alu will wear faster.

If someone is using thicker chain/ring/cogs, like 7-8speed...they might use FOUR chains per cog/ring set, because thicker rings/cogs wear slower.

If someone rides single speed/bmx...they could use 5-6 chains in rotation before replacing the drivetrain, because those wear extremely long.

All proportional to the setup...but the idea is to spread the wear and slow it's creep.

You get the idea

 

[amberwolf]

I expect everyone here uses STEEL cassettes and quality 7075 T6 chainrings...

Eh, I just use whatever used parts I have laying around that fit the present project, in whatever worn state they are in. :lol:

But I'm not your typical builder--even if I had money for all-new stuff I might well still use the recycled used bits unless I knew that would cause a problem I couldn't tolerate on my commutes.

It definitely makes a difference to smooth operation to use new parts together with new parts, vs various-states-of-worn-out parts together.

If you have an application that doesn't need to worry much about that (like a system that doesn't need to shift gears, and has lots of teeth engaged at all times), wear isn't quite as important, even different states of wear for different parts.


FWIW, I've typically used the methods over on Sheldon Brown's site for checking chains and chainrings, back when I was trying to create and improve a powerchair-motor-driven middrive, and was having trouble with chains/etc--but my problems turned out to be frame flex under torque causing derailment and it didn't really make a difference about the chain/sprocket wear. :/

 

[Lurkin]

For chain and drivetrains...
I keep three chains in rotation...
...once the THREE chains wear out, I replace the 3chains, cassette and chainrings AT THE SAME TIME.

I ride each chain for around a week, then swap to the next chain,
Masterlinks are rad, I keep extras and watch for wear on them,
The mildly used chain goes into a Mason Jar of Mineral Spirits, (any hardware store)
After a day or two in the MS jar, dry it off and the chain goes into a Mason Jar of Lube http://www.jensonusa.com/Lubricants/Finish-Line-Teflon-Plus-Lube-32-Oz
That chain soaks in the lube till it's next turn, when it will be wiped clean and dry...fully penetrated.

This process gets me the longest wear possible for cassettes and chainrings.
Once all three chains are stretched to the wear point...full drivetrain replacement time (except derailleur/shifter)
Changing a cassette without changing the chainrings AT THE SAME TIME...is a recipe for disaster. (alternate wear patterns accelerate chain wear)
(when those new rings/cogs go on...i start over with three brand new chains.)

Another big point to watch...the gooey stuff on the chain when they are new, IS NOT LUBE...it's just to stop rust.
Get that stuff off with a solvent...replace it with real chain lube...so much better

interesting, I've been trying this method out.

Degreaser: Koala Care Degreaser (because its biodegradable) and scrubbed
Lubricant: Weldtite TF2

I cleaned and parked a chain in the Weldtite for about a month... unreal its actually corroded in the Weldtite!! The degreaser was vigorously washed off with water before entering the lubricant... either there was a residue or that stuff actually allowed it to corrode! Was pretty surprised with that result!

 

[wineboyrider]

An old thread, but I am going to chime in after DIYing it for years with ebikes. I bought a BBS02 from Micah Toll when it was the new thing (not sure the date). When I got it I bought a bunch of tools to install it. It ran for about 50 miles before the hall sensors fried. I didn't ask for my money back I went to ES and hard wired my 6 fet mini monster controller and it has worked flawlessly sense. In fact, better than original! Thanks to others that helped me configure hall sensor and phase wires goes to mwkeefer, but I finally resurrected my BBS02 and forgot how nice of a setup it can be! I don't commute with my bikes as much anymore and wouldn't recommend it as a commuter setup, but if you like to tweak and maintain it's been a great setup!

 

[miro13car]

However, when I wanted to exchange a part, shipping was slow and more expensive......

what part you wanted to exchange and why? worn out part?

 

[MikeSSS]

I looked at the BBS02 and BBSHD, as well as other mid drives. Bafangs throttle problems were unacceptable, the TZ needed programming. I bought a MAC 12t rear hub motor.

It took a few days to make torque arms for both sides, this included cutting steel, drilling, filing, fitting and welding, along with trips to buy the steel, fasteners, U-bolts, etc. Point is, a hub motor installation can include tools like: hacksaws, drills, files, a welding machine, wrenches and clamps.

The more I read about mid drives like the BBSxx and TZ, the more it seemed like a hobby instead of trouble free transportation.

 

[2old]

I like the hobby, but haven't had to spend much time at it. My BBS02 has been used off road for five years without a hiccup. While I agree that hubs are superior for most commuter applications, BBS's are superb for many too.

 

[qwerkus]

I've been running a BBS02 for 2 years now without ANY troubles. Key is to stay at it designed power levels (I rarely push over 800W) and to use an IGH which basically solves all chain/gear related problems.

Only major problem I have is BB squeeching noises every now and than since there is just too much play there, and the high torque will always end up loosening it again. Found some solutions (aluminiu foil/tape) - still annoying.

That beeing said, I prefer hubs too since I dislike "sharing" my chain / gears with a motor. But that's more of a taste matter than a real issue.

 

[wineboyrider]

I've been running a BBS02 for 2 years now without ANY troubles. Key is to stay at it designed power levels (I rarely push over 800W) and to use an IGH which basically solves all chain/gear related problems.

Only major problem I have is BB squeeching noises every now and than since there is just too much play there, and the high torque will always end up loosening it again. Found some solutions (aluminiu foil/tape) - still annoying.

That beeing said, I prefer hubs too since I dislike "sharing" my chain / gears with a motor. But that's more of a taste matter than a real issue.

I would love to upgrade to IGH for simplicity and maintenance....

 

[Balmorhea]

I would love to upgrade to IGH for simplicity and maintenance....

There aren't many gearhubs that are happy to combine pedal power and mid drive power. Rohloff, NuVinci/Enviolo, and maybe the Sturmey Archer heavy duty RX 5-speed. I hear there's a heavy duty Sturmey Archer 3-speed in development, but I don't know when or even whether it will come to fruition.

I used a BBS02 in the past, but now I'm only using front hub motors, to separate the motor from the pedal drive and distribute the work more thinly across mechanical parts.