I agree this is especially important if you will do lots of KM vs someone who barely uses it.. the maintenance cost and time need to repair things gets huge fast as bike parts are not meant for the loads of a mid drive ebike... also the BBS02 seems ok for low use but those who use it a lot often say they have recurring gear failures... things simply wear out the more you use it....
Why I'm pulling my Bafang BBS02
- Thread starter peytonmusic
- Start date
I agree this is especially important if you will do lots of KM vs someone who barely uses it.. the maintenance cost and time need to repair things gets huge fast as bike parts are not meant for the loads of a mid drive ebike... also the BBS02 seems ok for low use but those who use it a lot often say they have recurring gear failures... things simply wear out the more you use it....
speedmd
10 MW
If your doing tons of road miles, get a hub motor. Mid drives, no matter who makes them are going to require much more chain /gear maintenance.
waynebergman
100 kW
In my short few years of ebiking and learning from the forum here I have come to the conclusion that hub motor verses mid drive is all about choosing the drive that will best fit your EXACT needs. "Peytonmusic" your choice to go HUB may also be a disapointment if you try and climb some big hills slowly with under 2000 watts. You are correct in that a mid drives will require more maintenance but at this point why not just get it to run smooth in one gear only if that is the best you can do, at least you will not have to do torque arms etc for the hub conversion. Also Mid drives are best with old school friction shifters in my opinion and this may help a bit with your shifting problems. ......wayne
slowhands
100 W
Commuterman88 said:
There is no reason to believe that the Bosch mid drive in the Cannondale Kinneto will be more or less reliable than a typical Bafang DIY install. They are very similar. They both have plastic reduction gears that will wear out. But you can pay someone at the dealer to fix it. With a DIY bike, it's on you. And I can understand that does not appeal to everyone. If you want someone else to do maintenance, that's fine.
speedmd
10 MW
Very few bike shops will be able to properly maintain a motor bike. Funny listening to the guys at the LBS talk about the batteries on the few production e-bikes they have on the floor. Scary. Gears wear out regardless what they are made out of. Metal gears many times will last fewer miles if not properly lubed and hardened correctly than well engineered plastic gear trains. With the bbs at least you can put the old crank set back in and ride it as it was intended to be ridden with no clue of the motoring. The cdale, you are stuck with something that is virtually of no use without the motor. Your stuck on the cdale frame / suspension setup also. Near total freedom to choose any type of bike (BB must fit) with the bbs. If you need / want the most maintenance free setup and don't need to ride slow technical steep trails, choose one with the least amount of things that can go wrong. A DD hub motor and controller is about as simple as it gets and impossible for a mid drive to compete with it in terms of longevity.
Ykick
1 GW
I remember a time when DD/geared reliability/longevity/simplicity debate was topic of many spirited discussions.
Myself pretty much against geared hubs but eventually I tried a few and I liked ‘em for several applications personally tested over a length of time under various use patterns.
When used within reasonable power specifications I haven’t destroyed a geared hub yet over 1000’s of miles.
Pretty much the same debate(s) with these BB drives. ‘Haven’t afforded the pleasure yet but I’m sure someday the right deal will come along and will enjoy the hell outta it.
There’ll always be pros & cons with different methods of driving eBikes. Clear winner can only be determined by individual tastes and preferences for their particular application. Reinforces my belief that you just can’t have too many various styles of eBikes.
Myself pretty much against geared hubs but eventually I tried a few and I liked ‘em for several applications personally tested over a length of time under various use patterns.
When used within reasonable power specifications I haven’t destroyed a geared hub yet over 1000’s of miles.
Pretty much the same debate(s) with these BB drives. ‘Haven’t afforded the pleasure yet but I’m sure someday the right deal will come along and will enjoy the hell outta it.
There’ll always be pros & cons with different methods of driving eBikes. Clear winner can only be determined by individual tastes and preferences for their particular application. Reinforces my belief that you just can’t have too many various styles of eBikes.
slowhands
100 W
speedmd said:
A lot depends on volume of sales. If a bike shop sells just a few ebikes, they are a foundling, a curiosity, a nuisance, beneath respect. Bike nerds want to deal with carbon this and titanium that, forget electrics. If the ebikes are a majority of sales, it's a different story. To survive they will have better support. The viability of ebike stores depends on sales volume, which depends on a mind shift among buyers. They have to see ebikes as a viable commute alternative. The potential market for mountain ebikes is smaller, since it's for pleasure/exercise, not commuting. In Asia, many people simply can't afford a car. They use ordinary bicycles, or now ebikes more and more. This is what would have to happen to the US market to have ebike repair business be routinely excellent.
I found Currie's line of ebikes, from urban to haibike to cargo, at my local auto parts store. They have no clue how to repair them, just sell them. That's bad news for the industry, because after market support is critical. At another local bike store, Performance Bikes Store, it is the opposite. Prices are a bit higher and support is solid. Better model.
That's how I see the future. ebikes aren't carbon titanium beauties, just tech wonders. Not what the lbs bike nerds respect. As consumers commute more and moreon ebikes, so goes the support. For now though, you had better be able to do some basic repairs yourself, because most local bike shops don't give a damn for ebikes.
geckocycles
1 W
WOW! You buy a DIY kit and then complain that you need basic bike tools and half a brain. Go to the LBS and just get an off the shelf bike and pay them to tune and maintain it.
As for no carbon and ty ebikes, LOL My first bike was a 24v EBoo Carbon and Bamboo. That got me started.
Made a different battery system to try to lower the CG.
Then after playing and testing more hub drives I decided on mid for distance and balance mostly. Big hub drives once you get going don't like to lean and turn. Maybe I could get used to it but after riding several mid drives and putting a few hundred miles on my GF's EasyMotion step thru Bosch I got the 750 BBS02 with shit mosfets, 52V 20AH and NuVinci. I had no trouble keeping the chain on with the XTR rear derailleur and shifting was no issue either on the Ty Moots Zirkel. I could see that the drivetrain was going to take a beating with this much power as the previous DH bike we built is. That bike is a 10 sp though and mine was 9. Put on the NuVinci and HD single speed chain on and love it. My main problems are fitting all the crap on the bars. Still playing with all the combos. Can't really get used to LH throttle yet. The thumb throttle was just getting used to it and then put on the twist. That is just too weird.
Most all the riding is on dirt, at night and with a HUGE grin averaging 26 to 32 miles a ride. As far as install, that was easy peasy and took no time at all. Yes it took longer than bolting on a wheel and running the wires but the advantages are HUGE and well worth the extra hour! I dare anyone to try to keep up on technical single track or even high speed flat tracking with these bikes. The balance and handling are unmatched. Can't wait to put the 1000w system on the 26" 4.5" fat bike. I think I am going to build a 29'er with 3" tires, full rigid Ty after my move.
As for no carbon and ty ebikes, LOL My first bike was a 24v EBoo Carbon and Bamboo. That got me started.
Made a different battery system to try to lower the CG.
Then after playing and testing more hub drives I decided on mid for distance and balance mostly. Big hub drives once you get going don't like to lean and turn. Maybe I could get used to it but after riding several mid drives and putting a few hundred miles on my GF's EasyMotion step thru Bosch I got the 750 BBS02 with shit mosfets, 52V 20AH and NuVinci. I had no trouble keeping the chain on with the XTR rear derailleur and shifting was no issue either on the Ty Moots Zirkel. I could see that the drivetrain was going to take a beating with this much power as the previous DH bike we built is. That bike is a 10 sp though and mine was 9. Put on the NuVinci and HD single speed chain on and love it. My main problems are fitting all the crap on the bars. Still playing with all the combos. Can't really get used to LH throttle yet. The thumb throttle was just getting used to it and then put on the twist. That is just too weird.
Most all the riding is on dirt, at night and with a HUGE grin averaging 26 to 32 miles a ride. As far as install, that was easy peasy and took no time at all. Yes it took longer than bolting on a wheel and running the wires but the advantages are HUGE and well worth the extra hour! I dare anyone to try to keep up on technical single track or even high speed flat tracking with these bikes. The balance and handling are unmatched. Can't wait to put the 1000w system on the 26" 4.5" fat bike. I think I am going to build a 29'er with 3" tires, full rigid Ty after my move.
My trial on the BBS02 is also over. So far I've tested:
• Golden Motor Magic Pie 4
• Golden Motor Smart Pie 4
• MAC 10T
• Bafang BBS02
I ride a an HPV FS26 with the battery mounted under the boom.
The BBS02 with 44T Lekkie drove a 36/11 cassette on an SRAM DD3 so I have 30 speeds. Hands down it goes further on a charge then anything else. But the weight distribution isn't optimal and the low speed operation doesn't fit my needs on the trike as well as a hub motor does. Its one of the first Paul shipped out with 3077 FETs.
I'll be posting an ad later with pictures etc. Its got 112 miles total and a handful of extras including a new HPV Boom, programming cable, chainring adapter etc. Not giving it away, its not like I need the money, just don't need it.
• Golden Motor Magic Pie 4
• Golden Motor Smart Pie 4
• MAC 10T
• Bafang BBS02
I ride a an HPV FS26 with the battery mounted under the boom.
The BBS02 with 44T Lekkie drove a 36/11 cassette on an SRAM DD3 so I have 30 speeds. Hands down it goes further on a charge then anything else. But the weight distribution isn't optimal and the low speed operation doesn't fit my needs on the trike as well as a hub motor does. Its one of the first Paul shipped out with 3077 FETs.
I'll be posting an ad later with pictures etc. Its got 112 miles total and a handful of extras including a new HPV Boom, programming cable, chainring adapter etc. Not giving it away, its not like I need the money, just don't need it.
TT, tried to sell my 750w BBS02 for $400 brand new since I had completed a hub drive that I thought would be more fun. Am I glad that nobody wanted it; what a blast. Now, I'm wondering what to do with the hub. Hope you are able to sell your kit and don't regret it later.
Chalo
100 TW
Until the chainline problem that's common to these kits is resolved, they're never going to go mainstream, nor be adopted by folks who want their bikes to work well.
Normal MTB chainline is 48mm. That is to say, the middle point of however many chainrings you have should lie 48mm to the right of the bike's center plane. The further you get from this number, the worse everything works.
I have to believe that Bafang could easily have designed their system to place the front chainring exactly 48mm from the center of the bike, but it was either a nickel more expensive to do it that way, or else they couldn't be bothered to give a sh*t. In any case, end users are stuck with design compromises that are much more difficult to fix than they would have been to avoid in the first place.
Normal MTB chainline is 48mm. That is to say, the middle point of however many chainrings you have should lie 48mm to the right of the bike's center plane. The further you get from this number, the worse everything works.
I have to believe that Bafang could easily have designed their system to place the front chainring exactly 48mm from the center of the bike, but it was either a nickel more expensive to do it that way, or else they couldn't be bothered to give a sh*t. In any case, end users are stuck with design compromises that are much more difficult to fix than they would have been to avoid in the first place.
Lurkin
100 kW
Hi Chalo,
Is there a best practise method for determining which way the chainring offset needs to go? Every time I've tried it devolves into fannying about with a ruler and not really achieving much. I was considering removing the unit, replacing the original crank and then measuring the frame to chainring, then replacing and comparing the difference?
Is there a best practise method for determining which way the chainring offset needs to go? Every time I've tried it devolves into fannying about with a ruler and not really achieving much. I was considering removing the unit, replacing the original crank and then measuring the frame to chainring, then replacing and comparing the difference?
speedmd
10 MW
It is wide for a standard road bike, but not too bad for a mtn bike. 50mm (like on the BBS02) is like many outer rings of stock triple MTB crankset setups. You need a even wider chain line to clear fat tires or to keep the big chain rings off the chain stay on some frames. Difficult problem to solve in a all in one assembly for the vast variety of bikes in use. The HD is setup more for these wider rear end bikes and should have some mass appeal IF it proves durable.
slowhands
100 W
Chalo said:
Bafang does offset the chainring in by 4mm, but it is still not optimum. The Lekke seems to solve the problem in two ways: They offset in 9mm, and use wide/narrow teeth. Both help. People who use the Lekke seem very satisfied, as in no dropped chain. Bafang could get it together and have a proper chainline, but they just don't get it. I'm not sure they worry about every bit of cost, seems more likely they just sloughed off and did not test the product enough. This audience is very demanding, perhaps the average Asian customer is perfectly happy?? It's better than the other crap??
Chalo
100 TW
speedmd said:
I think if the chainline of the BBS02 was anything remotely close to 50mm, users would not report their chains falling off nearly as often as they do.
Can anyone confirm this with a measurement?
speedmd
10 MW
I will double check mine. The print has been reliable so far.
Chalo
100 TW
That's very interesting. 50mm chainline should make it compatible with conventional 135mm rear spacing àlong with 142mm and 148mm through axle spacing. It should even be marginally OK with road bike spacing.
Maybe a front derailleur or jump stop would fix the chain jump problem that's so often mentioned. I'd certainly try it if I were have l having that issue.
Maybe a front derailleur or jump stop would fix the chain jump problem that's so often mentioned. I'd certainly try it if I were have l having that issue.
speedmd
10 MW
Mine measures 51mm and I have a thin spacer added so the case lays flat on the bb rear suspension boss. No issues with chain dropping on mine. My chain is a bit too short in the lowest gear. You could move the ring inboard another 5 mm or so and still have it clear the motor and stay with a custom ring with more offset. May be able to go down to a 40 or 41 tooth ring also if you were clever on how you mounted it to a offset spider.
Between the two BBS02 bikes I have built neither has kicked the chain one time. I did fix the front deraileur as a chain guide, though, which I think a lot of people neglect to do. The main issue is that the smallest cassette sprocket teeth shark fin all too fast! 
cell_man
100 kW
I just noticed this thread. This customer (OP) was actually provided a full refund including shipping, on his functional kit, that he decided he didn't like because the chain snapped etc. His only out of pocket expense was to ship it to a Californian address. He was nice enough to pack it badly, so the chainwheel was damaged, when it was received. He still received a 100% refund.
It was nice of him to come on here, give his excellent review, leave us out of pocket, return it partially damaged and then not even have the good manners that we had refunded him and with no lengthy discussion on the matter either. We have a few colourful expressions, where i come from, for people that conduct themselves in such a manner...
Thanks
Paul
It was nice of him to come on here, give his excellent review, leave us out of pocket, return it partially damaged and then not even have the good manners that we had refunded him and with no lengthy discussion on the matter either. We have a few colourful expressions, where i come from, for people that conduct themselves in such a manner...
Thanks
Paul
I'm glad people like Paul are providing good customer service, in spite of the frequent abuse vendors often get from customers. I could NOT deal with that.
I have read hundreds of reviews from customers who were happy with the BBS02 right out of the box, but...for the few who were using a bike with a small alignment issue, it's too bad they didn't go to the modest effort to add an affordable and simple chain-guide, which likely would have cost less than the kits return-postage, and would have likely resulted in a well-functioning ebike that provided years of happy service. A bit like quitting when they are only a foot away from the finish line...
I have read hundreds of reviews from customers who were happy with the BBS02 right out of the box, but...for the few who were using a bike with a small alignment issue, it's too bad they didn't go to the modest effort to add an affordable and simple chain-guide, which likely would have cost less than the kits return-postage, and would have likely resulted in a well-functioning ebike that provided years of happy service. A bit like quitting when they are only a foot away from the finish line...
craneplaneguy
10 kW
LyonNightroad said:In many ways I am grateful that building an ebike still requires a bit of work, a few tools, basic electrical knowledge, and some maintenance. We are the golden age of ebikes right now (in the US anyway) much like the golden age of fpv drones several years ago. Look at drones while there were barriers to entry and you had to build your own (except a few very expensive models). Back then the barriers to entry (building your own, some knowledge of electronics, telemetry, amateur radio knowledge (polarity, frequency, etc.)) kept the idiots out. Now that drones are becoming cheap and any fool who can play a video game can fly one, things are looking bad for the hobby. The FAA wants to regulate it because of dummies who fly too high, near airports, near crowded events, landmarks, etc. That is what the future of ebikes looks like once anybody can buy a cheap high-powered ebike and little knowledge is needed for maintainence. We should enjoy these days while we can (in the US)
Also, this is my lockring tool, works great:
After seeing your "special tool" (I about blew coffee out my nose, great pic) I feel better about the way I dealt with the lock ring. I realized that somewhere out there was a special tool, and probably inexpensive, that was specifically designed for torquing the lock ring down. Well, it was a weekend in Idaho, and I wanted to ride this thing TODAY so I got my special tool out, a 24" long big ass screw driver that hasn't turned a screw in 30 years, but serves very well as a pry bar or blunt cold chisel. Using it and a hammer I "torqued" down the lock ring, using common sense as to how tight it needed to be, farmer style common sense (I'm not one but I can think like one). The good thing was the lock ring didn't get damaged, and when I get the special tool it will work as designed. I spread the abuse around on several cogs, that helped. I rode it that day.
I found the kit to be easy to install, other then the need for a couple things I didn't have, not being much of a bike guy before this. But a friend quickly educated me about the need for a bottom bracket puller, and lent me his, that I couldn't fake. I eventually figured out the original bottom bracket nut on the sprocket side was left hand thread, it comes off much easy when when turned the correct direction
I especially was concerned about the wiring, but when I started plugging it all together I realized it was pretty idiot proof, plug and play. I have a 42 t Lekke up front, and my old derailleur bracket, and I also didn't use the Bafang supplied plastic thingie that goes over the chain ring, not sure what it's supposed to do, but I guess I don't need it. I changed my rear cassette over a couple days ago (another special tool that any real biker would have handy but I didn't, my big screwdriver wouldn't work either, so I ran it sown to a local bike shop and they did it for 5 bucks). I changed it from a 11-32 to a 11-34, and with a slight adjustment of the derailleur it seems to be working fine. I've had no chain issues at all, and learning the proper way to shift was pretty simple. I didn't mess with the chain length, maybe I should but it's all working too well to mess with it. I'm real happy with my BBSO2, and consider it my own fault I didn't have the one or two specific tools that would have come in handy, I certainly don't consider it Bafang's fault.
Lurkin
100 kW
Go and buy the correct tools. They are relatively inexpensive and you will use them in the future. It's worth it.
Should also at least check for chain wear as an indicator of both chain and cassette wear when you put on a new front chainring, including a lekkie ring. Old chains on new rings is not good for them if they are worn. Chains and cassettes are relatively cheap online compared to the cost of a new Lekkie. Again, if you had bought the cassette tool, this is very simple and quick task to do.
Buying a new chain, cassette and tool is cheapest online.
Should also at least check for chain wear as an indicator of both chain and cassette wear when you put on a new front chainring, including a lekkie ring. Old chains on new rings is not good for them if they are worn. Chains and cassettes are relatively cheap online compared to the cost of a new Lekkie. Again, if you had bought the cassette tool, this is very simple and quick task to do.
Buying a new chain, cassette and tool is cheapest online.
craneplaneguy
10 kW
Having the correct tools is always best, I just didn't want to wait several days so made do.
I do need a new chain though, since I do indeed have the new Lekkie up front plus the new cassette in back. But I'll give the business to the local bike shop. The tools I'll get online.
Got another nice ride in yesterday, after flying in, got the Montague out and ran some errands. Motorcycle capability almost, with bicycle freedom is how I describe it to "non-believers!" Used 3 amp hrs.
I do need a new chain though, since I do indeed have the new Lekkie up front plus the new cassette in back. But I'll give the business to the local bike shop. The tools I'll get online.
Got another nice ride in yesterday, after flying in, got the Montague out and ran some errands. Motorcycle capability almost, with bicycle freedom is how I describe it to "non-believers!" Used 3 amp hrs.
