Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

[Dauntless]

Nope, wrong one.

At this point, Brown and Palmer were still planning to use coal as their fuel. But when they sent Allam's handiwork to the engineering firm Babcock & Wilcox, to see whether the system would work on an industrial scale, "they had good news and bad news," Brown says. On the downside, the Allam cycle would be tough to pull off with coal, at least initially, because the coal would first have to be converted to a synthetic gas, which adds cost. Also, sulfur and mercury in that syngas would have to be filtered out of the exhaust. But on the upside, the engineers saw no reason why the technique wouldn't work with natural gas, which is ready to burn and doesn't have the extra contaminants.

Brown and Palmer gave up on winning a clean coal grant from the government. Instead, they sought private investment for a far bigger prize:

Try this one. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/01/10/americas-first-clean-coal-plant-is-now-operational-and-another-is-on-the-way/

 

[markz]

All the granola's are going apeshitcrazy

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=2059357

 

[ZeroEm]

Kemper Project

was the clean coal project here in the US. It might not have been $2 kilowatt but it was costly. The project ended as a failure.
Maybe it was too cheap or clean!

https://mspolicy.org/two-years-since-kemper-clean-coal-project-ended/

 

[JackFlorey]

And. as for those pollutants, ( they are not “healthy emissions ?) ..there are proven ways of removing and safely disposing of them. The fact that some plants do not comply is a failure of regulation, monitoring, inspection and enforcement, by authorities responsible to ensure public safety.

I am sure you can find someone to blame for all the deaths caused by coal. Not much comfort to those families.

But fear not; those very same authorities are, in many places, considering a complete ban on coal power plants to ensure that no one else dies. That way regulation, monitoring, inspection and enforcement will become MUCH simpler - and far more effective.

 

[JackFlorey]

All the granola's are going apeshitcrazy

"SOLAR FARM APPROVED"

Sounds good to me.

 

[Hillhater]

All the granola's are going apeshitcrazy

"SOLAR FARM APPROVED"

Sounds good to me.

Well this should really make you guys cream your undies then... :wink:
10GW solar farm,..”Worlds biggest”
https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2020-10-20/newcastle-waters-station-nt-set-for-worlds-biggest-solar-farm/12785256
..Personally, i am laying in supplies of beer, popcorn, and dunny rolls,..ready for when reality hits home to these dik heads and i crap myself larfing. ! :lol:
Oh ! And i hav’nt even mentioned the other 26GW solar and wind,, “Asian Energy Hub” project in W Australia also planning to “Export” power to Singapore. That one has been in planning for over 5 years ..

 

[markz]

But that aint in a "park" - a river valley park. Not sure exactly, dont care, Edmonton is kinda to dirty Go Flames Go!
Plus there's a claim of indingenous historical value that one guy claims but the majority gave the ok.

The gist is everyone wants "Green" power until its in their back yard, yet those same people are driving i.c.e. vehicles. Reminds me of the oil pipeline protests and rail blockades a year or so ago. Those protestors were driving half ton trucks LMFAO :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[JackFlorey]

..Personally, i am laying in supplies of beer, popcorn, and dunny rolls,..ready for when reality hits home to these dik heads and i crap myself larfing.

Uh OK. Have fun . . . crapping yourself I guess.

I just added another 4kW of storage for DR personally. Made $680 so far this year from the system.

 

[ZeroEm]

Can you imagine putting in a new seal? I used to look for the best, cheap storage solution. Gravity Storage takes a lot of room, might be better to build two lakes, high and low.

 

[Hillhater]

.
....I just added another 4kW of storage for DR personally.

“DR” ?? ..Disaster Recovery ?.....You lost me there !

 

[sendler2112]

Richard Heinberg: "The world seems to be coming apart at the seams. It’s critical to understand why, so that we can avoid the worst and find the best responses so as to move toward the environmentally and socially healthy future we want.

This straightforward explanation proposes that the main force driving societal change is available energy

When humans started using fossil fuels, a couple of centuries ago, they gained access to millions of years’ worth of solar energy that nature had gathered, stored, and transformed into energy sources that were far superior, at least over the short term, to firewood.

Production became more profitable. Fossil-fuel energy inputs worked miraculously to cheapen the processes of extracting raw materials and transforming them into products.

Consumption grew more affordable.

Inequality became more tolerable

Debt became generally more repayable.

Political and economic systems grew more stable

Nature was pillaged.

Fossil fuels come with a couple of serious problems. First, of course, is the familiar one: greenhouse gas emissions from burning coal, oil, and natural gas are warming the planet, (and acidifying the oceans) resulting in record-breaking droughts, floods, and heat waves. A subtler problem is that fossil fuels are depleting, non-renewable resources that we harvest using the low-hanging fruit principle. Humans have generally extracted the highest-quality, easiest-accessed energy resources first, leaving the lower-quality and harder-to-get resources for later. After a couple of centuries of this, the best of the fossil fuels are mostly gone.

Production is becoming less profitable.

Consumption is growing less affordable.

Inequality is becoming less tolerable.

eight people now control as much wealth as the poorer half of humanity.

Debt is about to become less easily repayable.

Political and economic systems are growing less stable.

Pandemic is accelerating the process.

Environmental collapse is accelerating, and is speeding the process of societal collapse.

Because they don’t understand the underlying dynamic described above, policy makers are flailing blindly to maintain economic growth in perpetuity.

Only if everyone understands the situation are members of competing economic sectors and politically polarized social groups likely to join together.

Since the unraveling of the status quo will be driven by reductions in useful energy, it makes sense to give energy a high priority in response planning. We need non-fossil energy sources. However, since these sources will not be able to supply as much energy as fossil fuels, we must deploy them strategically

use renewable energy to supply electricity for applications that are especially important. During the last few decades we have digitized all human knowledge; if the grid goes down, we lose civilization altogether.

Food is also top priority. Provide incentives and education for city kids to move to the country and start small farms.

Ratchet down production and consumption of manufactured goods controllably.

Reducing inequality will help. If inequality remains at current levels, social cohesion will be difficult to maintain.

Focus on the local economy.

Forgive debts. Start with student loans, but don’t stop there. Defaults will occur anyway; what’s important is that there is support for people thrown out of work as a result of bankruptcies. Save bailouts for industries that are actually essential

Reduce population by incentivizing small families rather than large ones, and by fully supporting the rights of women.

Reduce harms to the environment so that it doesn’t cost as much to recover from natural disasters or to clean up pollution.

https://www.resilience.org/stories/2020-10-20/a-simple-way-to-understand-whats-happening-and-what-to-do/

 

[Cephalotus]

"Imagined" problem:

Richard Heinberg:

...Production is becoming less profitable.

....Consumption is growing less affordable.

...Inequality is becoming less tolerable.

Solution?

... Provide incentives and education for city kids to move to the country and start small farms...

Imho this is purest nonsense.

Ask the average small farmer (farm bought by credit) in this world about their wealth and production efficiency.

 

[Ianhill]

The more technological we become the more detached from the basic life we have been developing on.
There's no way around it we best learn to feed ourselfs in a technological way before our numbers become to great.

There's so much waste at supermarkets it's unreal this consumption is based upon high levels of waste that's the next area technology needs to focus on not increasing production but a more efficient way of delivering the food without throwing skips of it to the bin.

Eventually a small group of us at least will become cyborg I think if we don't end everything as we know it by disaster at that point food will be drastically different no longer a joy but basic routine as we become more computer like and less human.

 

[ZeroEm]

by sendler2112 » Oct 21 2020 6:28pm

Richard Heinberg: "The world seems to be coming apart at the seams. It’s critical to understand why, so that we can avoid the worst and find the best responses so as to move toward the environmentally and socially healthy future we want. ................

Agreed sendler2112

It comes down to using less energy per person mostly in the US. Overly larger houses, cars/trucks, over consumption of everything else. High speeds on roads is a total waste. The less you use the less you need then other sources of energy will look more doable.

 

[JackFlorey]

“DR” ?? ..Disaster Recovery ?.....You lost me there !

Demand response. OhmConnect sends me a signal, I discharge into the grid - $$$$ for me.

 

[TheBeastie]

I just noticed Victoria is now well in front of South Australia in terms of online wind-farms.

Victoria now has 2,774MW online
South Australia has 2,142MW
http://anero.id/energy/wind-energy

The "Install capacity" on EM is now total trash data deliberately setup to make wind-farms look better then they really are. ElectricityMap now lists Victoria as only having 1,270MW of wind-farms which is less than HALF of it's real total at 2,774MW, the upside is folks can look at the EM data and go "wow Victoria is constantly running their wind-farms at 80% compacity", just like LCOE this is all just manipulated misleading data.
https://www.electricitymap.org/zone/AUS-VIC?wind=false&solar=false&remote=true

The previous SA state government went to the election wanting to increase the amount of wind-farms even more with the plan to export the electricity to Victoria, the SA people finally after decades voted them out, sick of the insanely high electricity bills...

The retarded thing about that plan was Victoria has an even bigger fool of a leader who vowed to build more windfarms, if SA had done their plan they would of been stuck with wind electricity they couldn't export to Victoria because most of the time when the wind is blowing in SA it's blowing in Victoria too.

But we get to see the fruits of all the new wind-farms online with electricity prices now through the roof making news.
https://twitter.com/9NewsMelb/status/1319543492910190593?s=20

Hydrogen Fuel Cell drone technology continues to improve, while lithium batteries have barely changed at all for drones over the last 10 years, the fuel-cell drones continue to break new records in hours of continuous flying combined with huge carry weight compacity.

[youtube]NX1aiZGNpCE[/youtube]

 

[furcifer]

We need non-fossil energy sources. However, since these sources will not be able to supply as much energy as fossil fuels, we must deploy them strategically

Fermi, Oppenheimer, Einstein and Heisenberg all just rolled over in their graves.

 

[sendler2112]

We need non-fossil energy sources. However, since these sources will not be able to supply as much energy as fossil fuels, we must deploy them strategically

Fermi, Oppenheimer, Einstein and Heisenberg all just rolled over in their graves.

The scale of current energy consumption is a big blind spot. As is it's relationship to population increase and to world economy which fit almost the same curve. World primary energy is still 85% fossil Carbon and new Year on Year Carbon energy build out is still outpacing wind and solar combined.

.

.
https://ourworldindata.org/energy
.

 

[furcifer]

So why pretend nuclear can't supply "as much energy as fossil fuels".

"Fission, it's not just for blowing things up."

 

[Hillhater]

So why pretend nuclear can't supply "as much energy as fossil fuels".

"Fission, it's not just for blowing things up."

......nobody thinks Nuclear “can’t” supply enough,.. its just that choice of energy source is becoming more dictated by public opinion and Politics, than any logical, practical or scientific decisions.
If logic were used, Wind and Solar would never be considered a viable solution.

 

[sendler2112]

Same chart with the relative percentage selected. Triple the value of wind and solar if you like to make up for reporting the wasted inefficiencies of thermal energy supplies. They are still barely more than a rounding error. We are going to come up way short as we move away from fossil Carbon energy either by decision or depletion. Things will be much smaller and simpler once again in the future.
.

.

 

[furcifer]

So why pretend nuclear can't supply "as much energy as fossil fuels".

"Fission, it's not just for blowing things up."

......nobody thinks Nuclear “can’t” supply enough,.. its just that choice of energy source is becoming more dictated by public opinion and Politics, than any logical, practical or scientific decisions.
If logic were used, Wind and Solar would never be considered a viable solution.

That's literally what it said though. I"m not familiar with the author but it seems that was deliberately overlooked. Assuming so, it's a political bias which is something I abhor.

 

[sendler2112]

Nuclear is currently less than 2%. And going down. How long does it take to increase nuclear 50X?

 

[JackFlorey]

They are still barely more than a rounding error.

Agreed. But looking at that chart, oil was a rounding error in 1900. Natural gas was a rounding error in 1950. Using those facts to say, in 1950, "natural gas will never amount to anything significant" would have been a poor prediction.

 

[Dauntless]

Nuclear is currently less than 2%. And going down. How long does it take to increase nuclear 50X?

About as long as it takes to find 25X the fissle. In recent years they said there was enough to meet double the demand. I'm sure that hasn't changed.