Y-pedal's two stage RC drive..........

Matt,

I was studying my drive design and it occurred to me that I needed
to do a two stage drive. I want a couple of those freewheel adaptors you had made up
for a fixed drive. Are they left handed threads?

I think that this cog in a 13 tooth will work for me. What do you think, are the threads the same?

This what they say about it at harris cyclery.:

Beautifully machined E.A.I. sprockets. Made in U.S.A.

Fully threaded for strength. Fits all track hubs, also fits most thread-on freewheel type hubs.

Fits all track hubs, also fits most thread-on freewheel type hubs.

Narrow 3/32" width works with all kinds of chain, narrow (derailer type) chain preferred.

Available in 13-22 tooth sizes,
3/32" and 1/8" widths.

(is direct linking of pics not allowed?)
 

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I actually have a 12T track cog on one of Matt's FW adapters:

eDrive-09.jpg


I got it here: http://www.webcyclery.com/product.php?productid=17496&cat=415&page=1

-- Gary
 
Gary, it looks like you are close to having your drive up n running, have you figured out a proper mount option? I hope you have it ready in time for the next OC ride! 8)
 
Gary- I've just got 2 requests. First, can you see if you can get any more noise into that image? The double exposure with the bike part in the image is blocking some of the nice snowstorm. :p Secondly, I don't want to jump to conclusions, but you may want to at least considder doubleing up on the zip-tie mounts :lol: :twisted: :mrgreen: :p :wink:
 
Thanks Gary....exactly what I need.

It's gotta be left handed thread then.
 
liveforphysics said:
Gary- I've just got 2 requests. First, can you see if you can get any more noise into that image? The double exposure with the bike part in the image is blocking some of the nice snowstorm. :p Secondly, I don't want to jump to conclusions, but you may want to at least considder doubleing up on the zip-tie mounts :lol: :twisted: :mrgreen: :p :wink:
Click to expand...

Yeah, the pic was taken at night, in poor light. I lightened it up a bit, and cropped the hell out of it, which led to the snowstorm, about as close as we're likely to get in Orange County... :D At least you can count the number of teeth, which is what I was going for. :roll: :lol:

As for the zip ties, I was too lazy to Photoshop them out, figuring "who'll notice...". Should've known... :mrgreen:

Actually, this is apart at the moment. I've drilled and tapped four 1/4-20 holes in the bottom of the "foot". Tomorrow I'm going to drill four slots in the bar the mount is zipped to, and hopefully get this finished up. Too many projects, too little time... :roll:

-- Gary
 
It seems to me that if you are using the shaft to drive the sprocket on the
right side, that it would require a left handed thread so that the sprocket won't unscrew itself.

But, in a case where the sprocket is on the right side and is being driven you'd want a right handed thread, so that it would keep tightening it....

vice versa on the left side.

On Y pedals drive, the adaptor looks like it is going to be used on the left,
therefore, you'd want a right handed thread that will tighten when driving the
sprocket. But, Y pedal could flip it and require a leftie?

It seems like Matt's freewheel adaptor is being used both ways...so, I'm confused???
So, I'll put my money down claiming Matt built a right hand thread adaptor, because
that's what you can buy for cogs and freewheels. It looks like the BMX world has developed
a left side drive for all those dudes freestyling on the right, which spawned leftie threads
for cogs and freewheels. So, I'll go search there.

Are some these drives going to unscrew themselves or just force you to mount it a certain direction?

For my drive, I'll definitely need a leftie, which may leave me looking for another solution.
(right side, shaft driving cog)
 
For right side drive, the shoulder of the FW adaptor gets machined off and the freewheel gets threaded on from the other side of the adaptor so the set screw shoulder goes into the freewheel first.

Kind of hard to explain. But, it works. :wink:

Matt
 
recumpence said:
For right side drive, the shoulder of the FW adaptor gets machined off and the freewheel gets threaded on from the other side of the adaptor so the set screw shoulder goes into the freewheel first.
Click to expand...

Huh?? :? :? Now I'm confused. Do I need to do this, or not? If so, can you esplain that again? :?
 
It only works with freewheels and not track cogs because track cogs thread all the way through. A freewheel has threads most of the way through, then the threads end against a flange. The FW adaptor can thread into the FW set screw should side first untill the set screws protrude out the back side. At that point, the FW threads will end and the adaptor threads will be set against the FW inner should (at the FW thread end point).

Very hard to explain. D's drive has a reversed FW adaptor with the adaptor shoulded threaded into the FW first.

Matt
 
12p3phPMDC said:
It looks like the BMX world has developed
a left side drive for all those dudes freestyling on the right, which spawned leftie threads
for cogs and freewheels. So, I'll go search there.
Click to expand...

Difficult to find, now that cassettes have taken over.....

This might be your best bet:
http://bmxmuseum.com/

Then you have to make your own adapter....

Not much torque at that point of your drive - securing a RH thread with anaerobic adhesive or a lock-ring should be sufficient...
 
Alright cool, I think I get it now! whew.... :idea:

Ok, time for some crappy text art.

---- Shaft
= Adaptor hub with set screws in it.
| Shoulder (with or with out lip)
\\\\ Right hand threads
//// left hand threads
> Right side drive
! FW face (with notches for removal)

As I understand it, your (Matt), FW adaptor
is basically like this...where the shaft goes through the adaptor,
you have two set screws in the hub portion, then you have a shoulder or lip protruding past the threads (bigger diameter lip). In addition, you machined two flat spots for a wrench (nice).

So, when you install the freewheel, the face of the unthreaded portion on the inside seats against the outer face
of the adaptor or seats against the lip (depends on which one is longer).

(when looking at it from the right side of the bike)

with lip:
---=|\\\-- > \\\\! ratchets when rotated counter clockwise (or if shaft rotates clockwise)
adaptor FW

With this setup you get a normal freewheel like a right side bmx drive....Ok, easy.
Now, if you machine the lip off, and install the freewheel starting from the hub side...

without lip:
!\\\\------=|\\\-- > now the FW ratchets when rotated clockwise (or if the shaft rotates counter clockwise)
FW adaptor

(FW is driven/engaged when rotated counter clockwise or if the shaft rotates clockwise, which is what I need).


The shoulder on the inside of the freewheel will now seat against the inside face of the threaded body that no
longer has a lip which allows the freewheel to actually be installed.

The freewheel in this config will engage when the shaft is driving the cog rather than ratchet.....
And the shoulder will hold the FW inplace preventing it from unthreading....!!!! alright !!!!!

Very Clever Matt.....

man my brain hurts, I need electronics...

But first, Now, I gotta find a 12 tooth freewheel or add a lip to a fixed cog and do that same trick....
I hope my attempt at explaining doesn't add to the confusion.

Thanks Matt..
 
Recumpence, Y-Pedal, Et Al,

I'd like to offer my services as a CAD modeler for your designs. I've been following the links on this forum for over a year now and am impressed with the dedication and enthusiasm of its members. While I have a background in mechanical engineering, 3D CAD and manufacturing I am pretty much a novice when it comes to ebikes so I haven't contributed to this forum as of yet. I'm seeking to change that now.

So, if you all need to exchange designs in an electronic fomart (i.e. CAD files) I'd like to help. For the past 9+ years I've been using a 3D program called Inventor by Autodesk. I have a high level of expertise with this application and consult with clients on its integration with engineering and manufacturing processes. So, I know my stuff.

That said, I want to contribute here. I can model your designs and provide you with an electronic version (CAD files) for redistribution to the community. I, of course, will respect all original "art" and consider your designs as your designs.

So, let me know where I can help you.

Cheers.
 
Miles said:
Welcome, Orrin.

Good to have you on-board.

You probably noticed that we have a thread ready to be filled with models and drawings :) :
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=7832

It would be great to have some of the bike parts that we commonly use, on there. I've been meaning to make a start on that.
Click to expand...

Hi,
Yes, I did see that thread. I will be glad to do this except I have limited parts on hand - a C-Lyte controller, hub motor, SLA battery and twist throttle etc. I admit that I'm hesitant to go purchase parts just to model them so, if you all have 2D drawings that need to be converted to 3D or have links to 2D data for "common" parts then please send it/them my way and I will model them. Please feel free to make a laundry list of parts that we all need (sprokets, shafting, timing pulleys etc) AND links to where I can find CAD/darwing data and I will see what I can do. Until then I will post models of parts that I have on hand.

Cheers.
 
Mclovin, great name, hilarious! So let me understand, if we want something like a custom rear hub to be machined, you can get it all sorted in Inventor, then we can send that CAD drawing to a machine shop with the proper mill to have it built?

If so that is good news. Glad to have you here, lots of custom parts needed around here until we get a platform universal so that if we are not always spending much of our effort in new territory.
 
I find when designing it's best to minimise the machining as much as posible if you can. My current project is still in design stage but I have been able to use all off the shelf products and only need to machine a new motor shaft and a motor adapet plate for the gearbox. I whent through all sorts of couplings and drive systems while solid modeling then and after tearing the HXT motor down and seeing the simple shaft, decided that was the easiest option. I use Inventor as well and will post my parts after I have finalised the design.

I have used a Staton gearbox which is built like a truck but it will give good service life and it's relativly simple to get weight out of it with some simple machining. I currently use this gearbox with a Honda ICE linked to a NuVincci and it has done thousands of kM's without trouble so I may as well start with that.

The quality of the resources on this site is the best thing and has made things very simply.

Alex
 

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etard said:
Mclovin, great name, hilarious! So let me understand, if we want something like a custom rear hub to be machined, you can get it all sorted in Inventor, then we can send that CAD drawing to a machine shop with the proper mill to have it built?

If so that is good news. Glad to have you here, lots of custom parts needed around here until we get a platform universal so that if we are not always spending much of our effort in new territory.
Click to expand...

Etard,
You have it right. I can take an existing part (if I have it on hand), reverse engineer (copy it in CAD) and then modify it as needed. I can also do some basic stress analysis (FEA), basic dynamic analysis (steady state and some transiant responses depnding on design complexity). Also, if someone has a good design concept and needs some CAD modeling done I can do that too......within reason and time permitting.

After all that I can provide the 2D drawings and CAD models (in a neutral file format) for a machine shop to build.
 
Hi, I just skimmed this thread so this may not be relevant, but I saw talk of left side drive freewheels and I wondered if you guys have seen the DK Dual Drive hub
http://www.winstanleysbmx.com/product/3992/DK_Dual_Drive_Rear_Hub
The DK Dual Drive Rear Hub has a unique design with 2 major benefits. Firstly, it accepts all sizes of both LHD and RHD freewheels....
this thing looks great but Ive only seen it on this one website. not easy to find.
 
Hi mud,

Yes, it's a pity they stopped making them.

Winstanleys have a few of the 48 hole version left.

I managed to track down a 36 hole version on BMX museum, for my collection :D

Profile still have stock of their Bi-drives but when they're gone, that's it.... The Profile hubs are for standard thread (RH/LH).
http://www.profileracing.com/profileracing/estore2/index.php5?productid=16
http://www.profileracing.com/profileracing/estore2/index.php5?productid=20

All above are 110mm O.L.D.

For 135mm O.L.D. see the Staton Inc. custom hub.

or:
http://www.grubeeinc.com/USA/HD Rear Axel kit.htm
http://cgi.ebay.com.my/FREEWHEEL-Re...sidZp1742.m153.l1262?_trksid=p1742.m153.l1262
http://cgi.ebay.com.my/YX-HD-Rear-A...e-kit-44T_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ300282965594
 
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