48v grampa trike build

[oobagooba]

How wide is that white saddle and where did you get it?

Saddle is 17" wide i think it is original

 

[oobagooba]

So the spokes came, took a pic, half built, inners done. Hi-tech wood block + spare tire build jig works pretty good with big hub motorView attachment 1


all trued up
gorilla tape makes a decent rim strip

I used this spoke calc
http://www.bikeschool.com/tools/spoke-length-calculator
I have used it a few times simple but accurate

Notes
2 cross + big motor w/small rim makes high spoke angle. I got Holmes 13/14ss, buck apiece w/nips, seems worth it, nice spokes.
Probably should have ordered nipple washers, I keep forgetting until after the other parts arrive, then I want to get it together quick so i can ride

 

[dogman dan]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Black-Tricycle-Saddle-Seat-with-Support-for-Sun-Trike-3-Wheeler-Bicycle-/111782189531?hash=item1a06bcd9db

Similar saddle here Wes.

 

[oobagooba]

Got it going, gets up the hills fine. Good power and pretty smooth without the halls, even from a dead stop.


Last issue i'm having, need bigger rear tires, yard is pretty rough. Back rims are the old fractional type, a limited selection of ancient skinny road tires.
Today's decimal tires 24x3.0 etc don't fit the old rims. I'd like to lace new rims on the hubs but they are 28 hole.

Anybody know where I can find some 24" 28h rims?

 

[wesnewell]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Rims-/177821/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=24%22%2028h%20rim&rt=nc&LH_PrefLoc=1

 

[amberwolf]

You can lace 36 hole rims to 28 hole hubs. This page is the opposite, but could be adapted to what you want to do
http://sheldonbrown.com/mismatch/index.htm

And this one is about 32 hole rim to 28 hole hub:
http://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-mechanics/429395-building-wheels.html#post6880505

 

[slowhands]

Keep the weight on the rear axles down, as they will snap in time if heavily loaded. Your wood box, and some heavy contents, could easily bend or break the standard axles. Just keep it light and it will last much longer. Here is a video of a fellow who had a trike axle snap on his electric tricycle similar to yours:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_IOnRkwa38

These inexpensive tricycles use only one rear wheel for power and braking. If you think you want to drive both, people make go cart differentials that are pretty strong. These have 25mm axle, instead of 15mm.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_35768_35768


Of course some people like to put the cart before the horse (No differential needed)

 

[DrkAngel]

24" x 1.75" 28H chrome steel rims @ $6.78 each
WheelMaster is a reputable brand ...
No mater what ... can't go too far wrong at that price! err ... shipping is more than wheels!

Large selection and USA free shipping on $150 purchase (NY based, so no eBike parts)

Same size Rim replacement
1. Lock spokes in present position.
I used to use scotch tape at spoke crossings
Progressed to a cheapo spool of twist ties, it has an effective cutter attached
2. Remove all nipples
3. wiggle rim off
4. wiggle new rim on, being careful to position tube stem hole in wide open area between spokes
5. replace all nipples, screwing them all on to the same depth
(slot bit on cordless VSR drill is handy)
6. tighten all nipples ±1 turn at a time (white dot on drill chuck simplifies turn count)
7. true wheel after spokes get reasonably tight

 

[oobagooba]

So i figured out the iso rim sizing. I need a 507mm rim for my new back tires. Trike has iso 540 fits the old skinny fractional tires, the old rims are 33mm too big for the newer fat decimal size. Problem is i can't find iso 507 28h aluminum.

24" x 1.75" 28H chrome steel rims @ $6.78 each
WheelMaster is a reputable brand ... No mater what ... can't go too far wrong at that price!

I will probably go with that, also they have good deal on spokes. I never had much luck searching that site, thanks for the link

 

[oobagooba]

Sticking with the cheapest route i ordered a bag of spokes along with the back rims from Niagara for the same shipping rate. Spokes are stainless 14g for 20 bucks a bag of 50. I need 56 for both back wheels. I could have got another 6 spokes for 6 bucks or so.

Instead i took a look in my wheel box. I had some old mtb spokes that were 10mm longer than what i need, also 14g stainless. Dug out a spoke threading tool i got 15 years ago at a gear swap and never really used.
It worked pretty well, i'm still figuring out the roller tightness.

After threading i removed the extra 10mm with a dremel cutoff. Then beveled the edge with a die grinder. Before cutting i screwed the nipple all the way down for a final thread chaser coming off.

I used a couple wood blocks to hold the spoke in the vise. Here it is before final thread cleanup

Took me around a half hour to shorten 6 spokes. I probably saved around 6 bucks, basically i paid myself 12 bucks an hour. Having more time than money and using up some old stuff made it worthwhile.

I increased the front tire to a 2.4, a big difference over the 1.95. Unfortunately the spokes are creaking, next i will try adding some washers while waiting for the new back rims to arrive

 

[oobagooba]

So the box came from Niagara with the back rims, spokes, etc. All this for $40! (plus $20 shipping)
It took 2 weeks to get here. The bmsb motor for the trike got here in one week, half the time. so i can't knock bmsb.

Laid out to build
I got some spoke washers from ebay for the old hubs. You can get them cheaper from Niagara but have to buy 1,000.
Rim holes are pretty big so i'm using nipple washers from the same source. called velofuze http://www.ebay.com/itm/281679322394?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

I used nipple washers on the front wheel and it stopped the spokes from creaking. 192mm spokes on 2x make a steep angle. When i pulled the nipples they had dug grooves into the alloy rim. So far the washers have fixed the noise.

 

[DrkAngel]

Rims look nice and wide.
Would you rate the steel rims as light, medium or heavy duty?
Poor, fair, good, very good, excellent quality?

I am considering the 26" version for Schwinn Meredian upgrade with 2.125 nice flat tread cruiser tires.

Not great for off road or Winter, but (10/23/2015) $16.19 /free shipping with $35 order

 

[oobagooba]

I would say they are good medium duty/quality. They are single wall but feel pretty sturdy. I am lacing 3x for strength. Haven't finished but they look pretty straight and should true up fine.

They are wider than my old fractional rims but narrower than my new front rim mounted with a 2.4. So I ordered up some 24x2.3 for them. I mounted a 1.95 that is almost too narrow for these. So 2.125 should do fine.

Another nice feature is the holes are offset to make a straighter run to the hub flanges. Of course i didn't see that and have to relace, did the first one backwards...

 

[DrkAngel]

Thanks, Schwinn Meridians have crappy rims ... reputedly.
Received a MY1016z3 (24V 350w) gear reduction motor, waiting on 31T spoke mount sprocket.
Will place spoke mount on non-drive rear wheel and anticipate a safe 10 mph top speed.
13.875mph when pushed to 33.3V (485w output)
15mph when pushed to 36V (525w output)
Got a few cheap 24-50V capable controllers (50V cap limit, might upgrade 1 for tests)
Larger sprockets and freewheels available for higher speeds ... if advisable?

Want a quick build-test before snow sets in.
Will upgrade build over the Winter as "mobility device" ... unless NY State finally legalizes to Federal standard as " ... bicycle, not a motor vehicle."

$52 Motor
$17 spoke sprocket
$13 controller
$8 chain
$90 + ~$10 for mounting hardware $100 build
(batteries not included)

Better wheels, Kevlar(ed) bigger tires, tubes etc. about another $100 for deluxe version (road worthy IMO)

Batteries?
Have many 12V 35Ah BatteryMinder rejuvenated(?) to various degrees of usability Would hang below axle to help avoid tipping.
or
Am sorting through ~1000 2.160Ah recycled laptop lipo cells, in 3s2p packs. 22.2V, 33.3V packs.
Can Turbo 22.2V to 44.4V for "tripping" @ 20mph?

 

[oobagooba]

Did you see the federal A.D.A. Other Personal Mobility Device clause? http://www.ada.gov/opdmd.htm

If the person presents a valid, State-issued disability parking placard or card or a State-issued proof of disability, that must be accepted as credible assurance on its face. If the person does not have this documentation, but states verbally that the OPDMD is being used because of a mobility disability, that also must be accepted as credible assurance..

If i start riding the trike around town i'll probably carry a blue hang tag and a copy of the federal law but bikes are basically ignored where i live.

I often get the trike up to full throttle speed, around 15mph, on my dead end street. It feels fine, also on the steep sidehills in the yard, it doesn't get tippy but i am careful.

 

[DrkAngel]

1st timers on trikes don't realize they have to lean their bodies.
I've ridden bicycles for 50 years and ran off the path when trying my 1st adult trike!
15mph at moderate turn in path.

Dedicated mobility trike could lower seat and install a floor pan over pedals ... maybe add boggies (anti-tip training wheels at front of floor pan)?

 

[oobagooba]

My first trike, it takes some getting used to, after a while it is fun on 2 wheels. Although it turns tighter if i lean in & keep it on 3. I'm hoping the new fat back tires will make for softer landings, save the axles.

Got the new wheel mounted
The 1.95 barely fills out the rim, there is room for more.
Another nice thing about a trike it's easy to get the back end off the ground for service.
This is the first "ebike" wheel i've been able to use my tension meter on. Probably b/c there's no motor, i have enough room to get the gauge in there. Also my other motor spokes are 12/13g and the meter only reads down to 14.

 

[oobagooba]

As the wheel turns...

While the right wheel came off easy, the left wheel is froze on at the hub. I broke out the puller, then the torch. Got half the hub glowing red, sweated in a bunch of liquid wrench, all it did was bend the flange. And steam up a wet rag beside the bearing. Hope i didn't cook out what's left of the grease.

So I engaged Plan B... lace the rim on the trike. Went easier than i expected

I've built different wheels, bicycle, motorcycle, disc, drum, whatever. These trike wheels made me feel like a beginner all over again. I couldn't figure out the pattern so just copied the wheel on the other side. But I can't think backwards so ended up pulling the other wheel to compare. And still had to take things back apart 3 times. I don't know if it's "right" for a trike, i just copied what Sears or whoever built 40 years ago. Still, even with loose, mild steel spokes they held up with 220lbs of ass over each wheel, leaned way over. Oddly enough the spokes all came apart easy, while one hub is completely rusted on. Some old bike grease just turns into jb weld if left long enough. I put the good hub back on with marine grease to use up some old stuff and see what happens over time

 

[columbiajack]

Here is my Columbia trike I built 3 years ago. 36v 500watt. The back tires are 20x4 1/4. The axels on these are pretty stout. they were used on garden tractors way back.The reason I know this is, I had to replace two axel bushings in the diffrential and thats how I found them

 

[oobagooba]

Here is my Columbia trike I built 3 years ago. 36v 500watt. The back tires are 20x4 1/4. The axels on these are pretty stout. they were used on garden tractors way back.The reason I know this is, I had to replace two axel bushings in the diffrential and thats how I found them

What year is your columbia? Do you have a build thread or before pics. Looks like you put some miles on the back tires. Did it come with a tractor axle? I think i saw someone with a jacobsen axle on here. Funny i used to have an old ford rider made by jacobsen but the rear end was more like a truck diff made by peerless. Is the suitcase full of batteries?

Mine is done for now. nothing like the columbia but for me it goes fine around the yard. 2.3 Kenda tires on the back with thick sidewall for 2 wheelin. Front is 2.4 "cheng chin" fat with good tread but paper thin sidewalls... probably fine for a trike front. at 20psi gives a lot of cushion around the yard makes all the wheelbuilding worth itcan click on the pick and zoom in.

Next step more battery!

 

[amberwolf]

Front is 2.4 "cheng chin" fat with good tread but paper thin sidewalls... probably fine for a trike front. at 20psi gives a lot of cushion around the yard makes all the wheelbuilding worth

The thin sidewalls will let it flex more and probably soak up bumps better, even at higher pressures than you're running. But I've found ~20PSI on my CST "city" front on SB Cruiser has been about perfect for most bumps and for braking traction in most conditions here on the road...no motor up there yet (mine are in the back two wheels so the weight on there gives me traction for startups).

 

[columbiajack]

Here is my Columbia trike I built 3 years ago. 36v 500watt. The back tires are 20x4 1/4. The axels on these are pretty stout. they were used on garden tractors way back.The reason I know this is, I had to replace two axel bushings in the diffrential and thats how I found them

What year is your columbia? Do you have a build thread or before pics. Looks like you put some miles on the back tires. Did it come with a tractor axle? I think i saw someone with a jacobsen axle on here. Funny i used to have an old ford rider made by jacobsen but the rear end was more like a truck diff made by peerless. Is the suitcase full of batteries?

Mine is done for now. nothing like the columbia but for me it goes fine around the yard. 2.3 Kenda tires on the back with thick sidewall for 2 wheelin. Front is 2.4 "cheng chin" fat with good tread but paper thin sidewalls... probably fine for a trike front. at 20psi gives a lot of cushion around the yard makes all the wheelbuilding worth itView attachment 1can click on the pick and zoom in.

Next step more battery!

This columbia is a late 1970's. I had a 76 columbia I did, and gave it to my son. I like the columbia because it has a wider stance in the back, compared to anything made today and the two down tubes in the front of the frame.. Before pic below, and is the second later of the two trikes I bought. The Ad was a joke to say the least the guy thought this was a jewel, even though the back rim was twisted but to me it was worth it for what I wanted it for the frame and differential. Columbia's are hard to come by these days. Yes it came with the tractor 3/4 axel. I updated the junk ball bearings to sealed units.The columbia's came with a 3 spd hub for pedaling,. they used a sturmey archer and another make I don't remember. I swapped out the 3 spd for a 5 spd sturmey archer hub. I just installed a double crank sprocket so pedaling is effort less. The box houses a 36v 20 ah battery. If their were a way to put some suspension on this bike it would be a good improvement. But I think this grandpa is done,

 

[DrkAngel]

Front is 2.4 "cheng chin" fat with good tread but paper thin sidewalls... probably fine for a trike front. at 20psi gives a lot of cushion around the yard makes all the wheelbuilding worth

The thin sidewalls will let it flex more and probably soak up bumps better, even at higher pressures than you're running. But I've found ~20PSI on my CST "city" front on SB Cruiser has been about perfect for most bumps and for braking traction in most conditions here on the road...no motor up there yet (mine are in the back two wheels so the weight on there gives me traction for startups).

If you run round tread tires (designed for a bicycle leaning in cornering) low pressure is desirable on trikes.
At "normal" pressure only the small center of the tread will ever contact ... and wear quickly.

I prefer a flatter tread (as pictured earlier) for nearly full width contact during straight running and slight additional outer contact during hard turns (at normal pressure).
Pressure can be lowered for more comfortable ride or better traction, and pumped up when better range-speed is necessary.
Ideal tire might be a very large tire with a wide (.5"?) solid center rib and a progressive tread pattern becoming more aggressive towards outer area.
This would allow a wide variance of range to traction needs, easily changed. Carrying an electric pump on an electric trike seems a feasible-reasonable option.

 

[oobagooba]

The thin sidewalls will let it flex more and probably soak up bumps better, even at higher pressures than you're running.

yep more flex better traction up the dirt hills.. + the flexy frame is decent on bumps

This columbia is a late 1970's. I had a 76 columbia I did, and gave it to my son. The Ad was a joke to say the least the guy thought this was a jewel, even though the back rim was twisted but to me it was worth it for what I wanted it for the frame and differential. Columbia's are hard to come by these days. Yes it came with the tractor 3/4 axel. I updated the junk ball bearings to sealed units.

You did good at $100, they would ask 250-up where i live. I paid almost that much for mine and had to replace almost everything... still looks rough. Mine has a 3/4 axle and sealed bearings too, so far they are holding up

I prefer a flatter tread (as pictured earlier) for nearly full width contact during straight running and slight additional outer contact during hard turns (at normal pressure).

Have a big square tire on my 26" cruiser, plush & handles good. And a flat slik on my 20" stingray handles good for what it is, those tires last a long time but i don't ride the miles you guys do. The 24x1.75 trike rims tire choices limited, what i got works for me & cheap.. leaves more dough for a new battery..