CYC PHOTON

[nervagon]

Can all the photon riders here confirm something for me?

Is it normal for the display to be reading almost a full volt too high. My voltage reading on the display is way off, and way too high. How accurately is your sw102 display reading your battery voltage?

 

[raylo32]

Yes, mine seems to run a little high, IIRC, but I'm not sure it is a whole V. I don't remember, exactly since it has been a while since I have ridden the bike. Winter... then I had a hip replacement on April 10. It already feels good enough to ride the bike, even a plain old pedal bike, but doc says another 6 weeks to let the bones grow into the implants. Damn it all.

Can all the photon riders here confirm something for me?

Is it normal for the display to be reading almost a full volt too high. My voltage reading on the display is way off, and way too high. How accurately is your sw102 display reading your battery voltage?

 

[pxl666]

they often show it wrong thus calculate power in wrong way . you have to calibrate them if possible

 

[Chalo]

"Don't judge." Really Chalo? Do you own one of these drives? Have you ever worked on one?

I haven't worked on a busted CYC Photon since last Saturday at the community bike shop. That guy was really happy with his, too, despite it being ten pounds of problems in a five pound bag.

He clogged up a workbench all afternoon, and went away with his mid drive still flopping around and unroadworthy.

 

[Mongo]

Can all the photon riders here confirm something for me?

Is it normal for the display to be reading almost a full volt too high. My voltage reading on the display is way off, and way too high. How accurately is your sw102 display reading your battery voltage?

@nevagon, I currently use the SW102 displays on my Photon builds, but have tried the DS103 and the (unsupported?) 500C. None seemed very accurate from what I could tell - usually roughly 1/2 to a volt low (DS103 was confirmed 1.2 volts low). But, I have not confirmed with a known accurate voltage source in every case.

 

[raylo32]

That's fair. I don't think I would have tried to use a Photon for a cargo bike, personally. I am not a small person at 200 pounds (would like to be 185!) but my Photon is on a fairly light aluminum hardtail and I mostly do fast unloaded road rides. Plus I am a strong pedaler, so usually run lower assist levels and maybe only hit troubling heat inducing power levels on longer and steeper climbs. I am not totally anal about this and as long as the bike goes, I am good. It really is a good fit for my riding abilities and terrain.

Here's something to consider.

Nervagon is running this on a cargo bike ( not known for stellar aerodynamics ), he's a large framed individual, and his riding position is fairly upright.

The bike's weight, geometry, tire choices, and riding position can vary the load at a given speed by hundreds of watts.
That in itself could create enough variance that the motor overheats versus not.

In this case, the bike is being operated right at it's supposed nominal rating. A nominal rating should be based around a 24 hour use at that wattage. If we're overheating at that wattage in the course of minutes, then the nominal rating is incorrect.

I user with a known good motor should reproduce what nervagon is doing - if they can, and the motor doesn't overheat, then we could say with pretty good certainty that nervagon's motor is faulty. Otherwise we're arguing theoreticals without proper information.

 

[Mongo]

I haven't worked on a busted CYC Photon since last Saturday at the community bike shop.

Good, there's one - out of a sample size of roughly how many?

 

[nervagon]

@nevagon, I currently use the SW102 displays on my Photon builds, but have tried the DS103 and the (unsupported?) 500C. None seemed very accurate from what I could tell - usually roughly 1/2 to a volt low (DS103 was confirmed 1.2 volts low). But, I have not confirmed with a known accurate voltage source in every case.

This is simply unacceptable. My eggrider on my BBSHD build doesn't have this problem. And over a volt off for the DS103? Garbage.

 

[raylo32]

So, you worked on it all afternoon... for what problem?... and it was still broken? Chalo the legend failed?

I haven't worked on a busted CYC Photon since last Saturday at the community bike shop. That guy was really happy with his, too, despite it being ten pounds of problems in a five pound bag.

He clogged up a workbench all afternoon, and went away with his mid drive still flopping around and unroadworthy.

 

[neptronix]

My terrain is mildly rolling (less than 500' elevation changes) stuff, with a few short duration bastard hills, on paved roads or trails.

Sounds like typical east coast terrain... we are dealing with a totally different animal west of the rockies!

 

[Chalo]

So, you worked on it all afternoon... for what problem?... and it was still broken? Chalo the legend failed?

We don't do retail service at that shop, only instruction. So whatever problem maybe I could have fixed, maybe even quickly (doubtful)... was slowly not-fixed. But it still wasted some of my time.

I'm confident that guy will get it going again soon enough, so he can break his bike with it.

 

[nervagon]

Sounds like typical east coast terrain... we are dealing with a totally different animal west of the rockies!

Here is a local ride that will melt a CYC photon:



I can't Join this group ride with the Photon. When it throttles to 350W, I'll be left in the dust.

 

[neptronix]

That's roughly as steep as many parts of the mountain ranges out here! surprised by it!

 

[nervagon]

That's roughly as steep as many parts of the mountain ranges out here! surprised by it!

I live at the base of the San Gabriel Mountain range and tons of hills.

And combine that with hot summers. This was last July:



This aint Photon country I guess.

 

[kuromaku]

Can all the photon riders here confirm something for me?

Is it normal for the display to be reading almost a full volt too high. My voltage reading on the display is way off, and way too high. How accurately is your sw102 display reading your battery voltage?

Mine reads about a volt high, and I tried discussing calibrating it with CYC, with no solution.

 

[nervagon]

Mine reads about a volt high, and I tried discussing calibrating it with CYC, with no solution.

What?!?! So this is just a thing with the Photons? This is bullshit.

So we have tesla quality engineering at Apple prices.

Thanks for confirming. No wonder I haven't heard back from electrifybike... I guess it's "within spec."

 

[moped-dan]

Can all the photon riders here confirm something for me?

Is it normal for the display to be reading almost a full volt too high. My voltage reading on the display is way off, and way too high. How accurately is your sw102 display reading your battery voltage?

Yea my display is about .5v high, tested with two different multimeters which is the best I can do.

Can’t say mine overheats but I rarely use more than 500w. Typically it’s about 115-125f unless I am really pushing it to 28mph + in a 1000w setting which I rarely do. If I sustained the high speed yeah it would overheat for sure.

 

[nervagon]

Yea my display is about .5v high, tested with two different multimeters which is the best I can do.

Can’t say mine overheats but I rarely use more than 500w. Typically it’s about 115-125f unless I am really pushing it to 28mph + in a 1000w setting which I rarely do. If I sustained the high speed yeah it would overheat for sure.

I think under .5 volt deviation is acceptable. Once we a hitting an entire volt off the mark, that sucks.

And a volt too high is just weird.

 

[Atak_Snajpera]

Do not worry guys. They will fix all issues in gen.2. Thank you for beta testing.

 

[maiz]

Do not worry guys. They will fix all issues in gen.2. Thank you for beta testing.

ES is kind of a beta tester forum

 

[neptronix]

..you saw the trail of arrows when you joined, you knew what you were getting yourself into

 

[Epithemeus]

My photon is also off by about 0.6V. This is something that should be solvable with custom firmware. The current firmware uses hard coded values for the resistors in the voltage divider. Make them variable and add a calibration screen somewhere.

I'll keep talking about custom firmware and never actually getting around to writing anything I do think this is one of the biggest strengths of the Photon though. It's the only mid drive that officially supports the ability to upload custom/third party firmware. And the source is open too.

 

[Chalo]

What?!?! So this is just a thing with the Photons? This is bullshit.

My many KT displays have read out voltage at a variance of about 1.5V across all of them, same battery same state of charge. That's only about 0.1V/cell, so not a real big deal unless you're stomping a battery 100% -> 0% regularly.

It's also one of the reasons I now prefer no display, just a controller that doesn't need one.

 

[nervagon]

So right now, I don't have any reason to believe my Photon is defective. If I swapped out for another photon, I would probably have the same experience. It's just kind of weak and hot-running by design. And it is 500W nominal at best. 700W is certainly not the peak efficiency for this drive as CYC claims.

And I guess I've been lucky with my eggrider displays because they've been pretty accurate.

 

[hindesite]

Chain Ring Pin Spanner

Trying to move the discussion along a bit...

CYC now have available a pin spanner for removing the chainring retaining ring. It is a decently finished aluminium plate with 5x threaded holes to receive the supplied steel pins. One face of the plate has a cylindrical protrusion to locate it in the BB, the other face has a raised hex drive to take a socket or spanner. I don't know how they selected the size of the hex, or why there is a M12 threaded hole through the centre and not a 1/2" socket drive. The pins also seem a bit long, the plate doesn't sit flush against the ring since the pins strike something on the inside of the chainring area. That is of some concern, hopefully it won't damage anything inside there. Also with the extra length, I would think there is more risk of the pins bending or shearing.

Anyway - has anyone here been able to remove the retaining ring. Mine wasn't installed overly tight (since I used the original useless pin spanner supplied), but it is impossible to remove. Even with long extension steel pipes on the socket on the pin spanner and on the chainwhip arm. Is there anything that can be used to soak the internal thread, and does a 1/2" drive rattlegun get this undone?

Any other methods that people have successfully used?