On the bomber I didn't notice it as far as acceleration. I did notice it slightly in turning. The Bike wheels turned faster. The moto rims / tires made a much more comfortable, stable ride. if you go moto make sure to put in rim locks. I run 8psi regularly w/o tubeless. I use a HD tube on the back and w the bicycle rim I use a standard moto tube on the front. The grip the bicycle tires do not come close to the traction and grip from the moto rims. If you ride off-road there is no reason not to.
E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners
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Rix
100 TW
1abv said:
John of JRH hobbies, had custom 13g spokes with 5mm nipples that were laced up front. I wish he was still building MC rim to bike hub conversions.
Rix
100 TW
1abv said:
The only thing I noticed was running the MC wheel tire combo used just a little bit more current. I couldn't tell anything performance related. I imagine with a big enough rim wheel tire combo, there would be perceivable parasitic loss.
Yesterday, I added the new Vee e-huntsman tires to my wife’s Ariel rider x52. The tires are maybe twice as heavy as the stock tires (2lbs to 4kbs) and her bike lost about 5mph top speed and a whole lot of acceleration. Making me rethink this whole moto wheel thing. I’d be pretty bummed out if my f37 lost 5mph and acceleration. Maybe I will build a Qulbix 76 after all. Or save up for a long time to get a new b52 
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
Cozen89 said:Yesterday, I added the new Vee e-huntsman tires to my wife’s Ariel rider x52. The tires are maybe twice as heavy as the stock tires (2lbs to 4kbs) and her bike lost about 5mph top speed and a whole lot of acceleration. Making me rethink this whole moto wheel thing. I’d be pretty bummed out if my f37 lost 5mph and acceleration. Maybe I will build a Qulbix 76 after all. Or save up for a long time to get a new b52
That's odd that heavier tires would effect top speed. Rotating mass effects accelleration a lot, but doesn't usually change your top speed. Smaller diameter might lower top speed though.
Well there are a few things.
The Ariel (correct me if im wrong) is 2000w peak where the fighter is 3700w
stock sur ron wheel is 1.4
Talaria is 1.6
When people mod them they go to 1.85. I don't really know why stealth recommends a wheel that wide. I would do a 1.4
found this old post I did about wheel weight differences.
The holmes hobbies 19" x 1.6" wheel : 3lbs
The stock 24" wheel: 1.8 lbs
The stock Duro, MC HD tube, and MR. tuffy strip: 6.6 lbs
Vee Rubber VRM021, IRC regular tube, Rim strip 7.6 lbs
Totals:
Stock w MC tube etc: 8.4 lbs
MC 19": 10.6 lbs
Diff 2.2 LBS
Technically it's probably a touch less because I didn't weigh the rim strip of the stock and also I know some people run slime in their MC tubes as well.
Never having to change your tire ever ever ever.... priceless...
The Ariel (correct me if im wrong) is 2000w peak where the fighter is 3700w
stock sur ron wheel is 1.4
Talaria is 1.6
When people mod them they go to 1.85. I don't really know why stealth recommends a wheel that wide. I would do a 1.4
found this old post I did about wheel weight differences.
The holmes hobbies 19" x 1.6" wheel : 3lbs
The stock 24" wheel: 1.8 lbs
The stock Duro, MC HD tube, and MR. tuffy strip: 6.6 lbs
Vee Rubber VRM021, IRC regular tube, Rim strip 7.6 lbs
Totals:
Stock w MC tube etc: 8.4 lbs
MC 19": 10.6 lbs
Diff 2.2 LBS
Technically it's probably a touch less because I didn't weigh the rim strip of the stock and also I know some people run slime in their MC tubes as well.
Never having to change your tire ever ever ever.... priceless...
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
Is that LA 1abv?
Thanks for this info. Yeah it doesn’t seem to be that large of a weight difference. The new tires on my wife’s bike wasn’t that much either tho. Decision, decisions. Btw, what gauge spokes did you all use on your moto wheels? Think I can get away with 12 gauge in the rear for the f37 or is 10 gauge the way to go?
1abv said:Well there are a few things.
The Ariel (correct me if im wrong) is 2000w peak where the fighter is 3700w
stock sur ron wheel is 1.4
Talaria is 1.6
When people mod them they go to 1.85. I don't really know why stealth recommends a wheel that wide. I would do a 1.4
found this old post I did about wheel weight differences.
The holmes hobbies 19" x 1.6" wheel : 3lbs
The stock 24" wheel: 1.8 lbs
The stock Duro, MC HD tube, and MR. tuffy strip: 6.6 lbs
Vee Rubber VRM021, IRC regular tube, Rim strip 7.6 lbs
Totals:
Stock w MC tube etc: 8.4 lbs
MC 19": 10.6 lbs
Diff 2.2 LBS
Technically it's probably a touch less because I didn't weigh the rim strip of the stock and also I know some people run slime in their MC tubes as well.
Never having to change your tire ever ever ever.... priceless...
yup thats LA as you can see, First Interstate Bank World Center which got blown up in war of 1996 by the Aliens with the city destroyer..... independence day?? anyone??? Anyone?? Will smith??? Anyone Anyone?? "Welcome to earth" ... "That's what I call a close encounter" anyone????
I think im using 10/11 spokes. they taper.
I think im using 10/11 spokes. they taper.
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
1abv said:
How far is that? Looks like about 20 miles
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
1abv said:
I'm about 17 miles from downtown Dallas, and there's only about 75 foot difference in the elevation between here and there, and I'm not even sure it's that much.
You make a good point Abv about not having to worry about changing tires etc. My rear Duro looks to be close to the end of the line. Luckily I bought a few 5 months ago when I heard they were being discontinued.
Since I’m concerned about losing acceleration by swapping out to moto rims, maybe going 18” rear will help reduce the loss of torque. I can’t seem to find any 18x1.4 or 18x1.6 rims tho.
Since I’m concerned about losing acceleration by swapping out to moto rims, maybe going 18” rear will help reduce the loss of torque. I can’t seem to find any 18x1.4 or 18x1.6 rims tho.
litespeed
100 kW
If your worried about loosing acceleration just get a more powerful controller.
When you get over 12kw nothing weight wise matters! I’m at 17kw now and can’t keep the front end down!
Get the moto rims and live!
Tom
When you get over 12kw nothing weight wise matters! I’m at 17kw now and can’t keep the front end down!
Get the moto rims and live!
Tom
Sound good to me, but I’m a complete novice when it comes to this sort of thing. Is it as simple as just changing the controller? I thought if you do that and want to increase power you have to change the battery to a higher voltage as well. Which I’m also open to doing, but the f37 doesn’t hold that many cells so wouldn’t going up to a 60v or 72v battery destroy your range? If I’m completely off base on this, let me know. I could use, and would appreciate some guidance on the subject.
litespeed said:
litespeed
100 kW
Cozen,
What your asking is correct. You will need a bigger/more powerful pack with a more powerful controller to push more power. You don’t necessarily have to go higher voltage though…..when you have feild weakening. I had forgotten that you had the F37….I’m not sure what amount of batteries you can stuff into that frame. What Calab said is correct also. Watts is watts, it’s how you use them.
Tom
What your asking is correct. You will need a bigger/more powerful pack with a more powerful controller to push more power. You don’t necessarily have to go higher voltage though…..when you have feild weakening. I had forgotten that you had the F37….I’m not sure what amount of batteries you can stuff into that frame. What Calab said is correct also. Watts is watts, it’s how you use them.
Tom
Yeah that’s what I thought. Would need to build a new battery. Unfortunately space is limited on the f37. It’s tough trying to balance keeping the bike light and smaller yet still pumping out a decent amount of power and battery capacity. Kind of why I’ve been looking at the qulbix 76 frame.
litespeed said:
It can be done:Cozen89 said:
Look back to around the end of 2017 in this thread for details. Was a 14S14P pack, so 49AH or ~2.5Kwh. Good for around 200km range when taking it easy. Could also pump out well over 100A without breaking a sweat.
Cheers
Cozen89 said:
So yes there is a trade off for all this power. There is no plug and play kit for any of this. The entire system has to work together.
Throttle/controller/battery/motor/cooling/ and lets not forget wiring etc. And who will be responsible for all of this working??? That would be you...
When was bone stock my phase wiring to the motor was falling to pieces, literally the sheathing was cracking and falling apart. So I upgraded the phase wires to 10 gauge. (that required removing the sheathing and using shrink wrap to get it through the axle)
While I was in there I installed a temp sensor. Come to find out there was already one in there but the wiring was folded back and not used. I installed a new one anyway because I was there and why not.
I had to drill a hole in the CAV and solder to the board and programming the thermal rollback myself.
That also lead to replacing all of the connectors from the motor to the chassis because well they sucked and were a pain to connect. Soldering that together was really annoying with the waterproof connectors.
I broke a throttle so I bought one from a company that said it was compatible with the controller... uh no it wasn't. It had a terrible lag and felt like it lost power. So I had to get one that would work. I wound up buying an exact duplicate of what came w the bike.
Then added in cooling to the motor which actually worked perfectly.
Then I rebuilt the rear wheel with a moto rim. Thanks to the forum for connecting me with the company to get all the spokes and rim from. I still have spokes break from time to time. maybe once ever other year.
Then as you know the controller crapped out because of vibration so I re-capped it. turd still doesn't work no idea why. Thankfully Rix the man hooked me up with a spare which I prepped w specific electronic grade rtv.
So then I bought a kelly controller because the nuke was backordered (still on the waitlist for that). That thankfully came w a throttle but after I bought it I realized that the wiring was not as simple as the stealth. I've started and stopped connecting this thing about 3 times because, well Ide rather ride than dick around with physical wiring. And the breaker/fuse situation.. good god......
Then comes the programming which I haven't even touched yet..
Im not even going to get into what I had to do to get the brakes and suspension to work decently.
I say this beacuse the second you start to modify the stealth there is no "upgrade" kit and you have to be responsible for all of this. I knew nothing about electronics, electric motors, DC electric circuts and I am still no master of any of this crap.. When I bought the controller I didn't understand what it would take to get it to work and I still dont fully get it...
BTW the kelly wont accept the temp sensor I have in the motor so I would need to install a different type... FAKKKKKKK
Honestly if there was someone I could just dump off my bike and some cash and say make it fast I would do it in a second. Ide rather be riding than tinkering but if your up for it its a great learning experience and you will be an expert. Im sure there are people on this forum who this type of stuff comes easy to them but isnt me. I learnt through mine and other peoples failures and successes.
Not trying to dissuade you from upgrading but its also good to get a reality check on what it takes and the details.
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
1abv said:So yes there is a trade off for all this power. There is no plug and play kit for any of this. The entire system has to work together.
Throttle/controller/battery/motor/cooling/ and lets not forget wiring etc. And who will be responsible for all of this working??? That would be you...
Not trying to dissuade you from upgrading but its also good to get a reality check on what it takes and the details.
This is so true. It's always been this way too, even with gas bikes. You upgrade one area, and the next weakest part breaks until you've upgraded everything in the drive train. I had a lot of experience with this over the years. Even factory's have trouble getting this right. Sometimes it takes a few tries, and sometimes they never get it right. That's one of the main reasons I've had so much respect for the complete development of Bombers from the Stealth factory. For street riding my bike is actually overbuilt which I attribute it's extreme dependability, and longivity too.
Theodore Voltaire
1 GW
And while I'm on this subject, I believe Onyx come from the factory with their 80 amp controllers set for 55 amps. I think this is because the QS 205 3000w motors can easilly handle the heat at that level of power, but not much more. Of course most of my riding buddies can't resist setting the power level higher, and that makes their bikes accelerate a lot faster, but typically it causes overheating problems. I know a lot of people don't have a problem with that, but imo that's a developmental deficiency. Stealth avoided this problem by only giving my bike a controller the motor can handle. If I was building my bike from scratch I might build it like Onyx, but if I'm planning to sell a lot of them, I'd build it the way Stealth has.
Good feedback and info here. Thanks for sharing. I agree, once you step in to the rabbit hole of mods, you might find yourself way too deep at some point haha. I’m not electrically inclined myself, and yes, if I could pay someone who knew what they were doing, I would. My stealth runs pretty much perfectly as is, so maybe it’s best I just leave it alone and ride it. “If it ain’t broke why fix it?” Right?
Guess I’ll save up and start a new project on the side if I feel the urge for something new. Thanks for being the voice of reason guys haha. Sometimes I need to hear it!
Guess I’ll save up and start a new project on the side if I feel the urge for something new. Thanks for being the voice of reason guys haha. Sometimes I need to hear it!
Cozen I still say go for it just be aware of what yer getting into.... TV totally agree for the street the bomber is the shit and a bad ass unit that a surron/talaria etc cant touch. well built cool looks and unique..
Heres some more Dirt action I wish I could illustrate the amount of ass pucker that was involved w this ride.. cliff edge super steep insanity..
Heres some more Dirt action I wish I could illustrate the amount of ass pucker that was involved w this ride.. cliff edge super steep insanity..
Rix
100 TW
1abv said:Cozen I still say go for it just be aware of what yer getting into.... TV totally agree for the street the bomber is the shit and a bad ass unit that a surron/talaria etc cant touch. well built cool looks and unique..
Heres some more Dirt action I wish I could illustrate the amount of ass pucker that was involved w this ride.. cliff edge super steep insanity..
Yah, nice little boulder cliff drop action going on. Remember, its not the fall that gets you, its the sudden de-acceleration that hurts.
