eLation 200watt kit (Australia)

Hi,

I'm trying to install one of these kits and want to be sure of some steps. When attaching the motor to the frame, it says to put the gear changing cable above the metal mounting plate of the motor. Does that mean in the gap of the mounting plate, or on the other side of the mounting plate above the gap? It isn't so clear. A video demo would be good, or a few more picture angles overall. I think you can unscrew the gear changing cable and change which side it goes later if it is wrong.

Also, I think as long as the motor is aligned correctly and fixed tight to the frame, the installation should be fine. Is that correct?

(I haven't read all 14 other pages to see if this has been answered.)

Thanks for any assistance.
 
Cyclone supply both CW and CCW, the only difference is the freewheel and some resistors internally. I believe that the CCW orientation was used due to better motor efficiency (through timing), but its not entirely suitable for all applications.

Overvolting is risky, with this setup you want more torque rather than RPM. They are very easy to mod for more power ~ 400W is easily done, without heating issues - uphill I have drawn 600W continuous from these motors (you want a decent battery for this).

If your rear derailer cable gets in the way - change it for a sheathed cable - DO NOT use a brake cable, but use a proper non-stretch housing and cable. Running the cable over the mount is a half-assed way of doing the job.

These things really need a good ammeter like a watts-up or cycle analyst, its easy to kill a battery if you are riding by the LED's on the throttle. If you have a big enough battery you wont get yellow or red LED's if you stall it up, I never could.

I aways found the efficiency of the cyclone way down as compared to a hub motor with the same speed/distance. Not sure why.
 
Nite check.
If you get a new battery, think about a 20 ah, possibly from ping batteries.
If you get hold of a 300w motor you will definitley need 20ah.

200w motor will peak at around 400w, 300w around 500w peak.

The higher the gears you use the more amps you will pull, without some serious pedalling.

I have a CA fitted, good for w/hrs klm, amp hrs used, cycles done etc, however it's easier to watch yellow led on throttle than watching voltage/amps/watts on ca.


To Dman,

Gear cables go between motor mount and motor, sliding along mount when changing gears, use a little dry lube on them.
Mine has been going like this for over 2 yrs, no sign of wear, later on you can think about some sort of sheathing if you are worried about it.

When installing kit follow the supplied instructions to the letter, also same with operating instructions.

What part of melb are you in ?

Cheers.
 
Thanks for the replies. Sounds like you are getting good use out of your kit. Hopefully it keeps going and going for years.

I'm in the Eastern suburbs.
 
True on the CA small screen - its too bloody hard to read - The clone I made uses a large screen (like the EV version of the CA) - my eyes are too poor to read the numbers on the smaller version when moving!
 
lesspedal said:
Good to see you'r still going strong.
Best of luck in Europe 8) .
What was the magic solution to the stripped thread ?
Click to expand...

The solution was Alan sent me a free replacement :D :D :D

My bike arrived today so quickly I reassembled the pedal successfully. I went for a quick ride to a town near Lausanne after work. What a beautiful place.

The swiss are real gentlemen on the road. They will wait for you patiently. I try to keep reminding myself to ride on the right hand side :lol:. The odometer is showing 2790km.

Roads are *very* steep. on the "less steep" innercity slopes I did 45kph with no pedalling and no motor. On these slopes going uphill with the motor is very pleasant. Minimal pedalling. But on the country side its *ridiculously* steep that I wouldn't want to come down without brakes keeping the speed at 15kph-ish. Anything above this I wouldn't be able to stop in emergency.

Now, some pics:

Elation and Aussie promotion! A guy came and talk to me in broken english... can I see your bike? He was quite amused. There's a bit more eBikes around compared to Melbourne. Also the culture of cycling is different. The Swiss are much more relaxed compared to the speed pursuit of Melbourne lycra crowd.

IMGP3671.jpg



See the hill there?

IMGP3679.jpg



Vines, old houses (18th centuries some of them)... beautiful.

IMGP3703.jpg



In Swiss, even windows are ridiculously beautiful :eek:

IMGP3687.jpg
 
I took the Elation for the most torturous test to date :D. Starting from Lausanne then going around the lake Leman (lake Geneva) to Montreux, Vevey, Villenueve then crossing to France - Evian, Thonon and various small towns along the way back to Switzerland in Geneva.

Total distance was 136km and took 11hrs to complete (relaxed riding and enjoying schenery). Hence I took the frugal approach with the battery, basically to use it only on ascending part. And there were *a lot* of it. I saw the first yellow indicator light at 120km past France and approaching Geneva. Then the next 15km saw the first red light. Not bad at all for a tiny battery package!

Route map (google)

Depart 9:30 at the picturesque Ouchy area of Lausanne.

IMGP3730.jpg



The road between Lausanne and Montreux. Perfect weather!

IMGP3749.jpg



Off the beaten track nearing French Border. The border itself was like a toll booth and the person just simply waved me on, not interested in any passport.

IMGP3783.jpg



Endless French villages like this at Yvoire. If I had to stop and take pictures everytime I saw something interesting I would never got to my destination!

IMGP3836.jpg



Everytime I park the bike people would glance at the motor/battery. Why eBike is not yet a primary transport in such beautiful and hilly countries actually begs belief.
 
Fully installed and operational!

The whole setup was a bit fiddly and delayed due to various issues.

I had to fix the motor-mounting flexi-clamps to fit around my larger bike tube. It turns out these are
standard 06B (3/8) chain links used in industry. To add a chain link, grind off link end, then punch out link.
Either add a connector + 1/2 link + connector, or full link + connector.

In my search for chain links, I went to a few motor scooter places and ended up at an industrial products company ("G & R Industrial Products P/L" near my work) who had the links and the guy was very helpful and helped me complete the task.
This is the company if anyone is interested: http://www.yellowpages.com.au/vic/collingwood/g-r-industrial-products-p-l-12117233-listing.html

To complete the job I had to get 20mm heatshrink tubing from Dick Smith (can be sourced from many place) to have as-good-as-new flexi-clamps.

Review:
The motor adds considerable power and gives an impressive push up the hill from behind. 200w feels like a lot. (It was freezing in the Melbourne cold last night, and even colder when you don't pedal - you feel cold and lazy.) You do notice the noise, it sounds like a hatchback in reverse, but I can live with that. One funny thing is when you are trying to roll the bike backwards (not sitting on it) as you do from time-to-time, it kind of drives the motor and is very stiff to move. The freewheel is only for going forwards.

I have a few outstanding issues:
- I can't get onto the largest (3rd) sprocket on the replaced Elation crank/sprocket set. I'll have to play around with the derailer.

- I lost access to the mounts on both frame tubes to put my drink bottle holders & pump. I have access to one mount point on the seat post tube. I suppose I can screw the holder into one mount point and get some kind of tape or adhesive to secure the rest of the holder. That is a bit annoying, but I suppose it is the sacrife you make to live in the future. Maybe you don't sweat if you don't pedal or you hold and sip on the ride?

I'll need to add a speedometer to see how fast I really go. I only weigh 50kg's. (Maybe the hub motors may have pushed me just as well.)

Happy riding :D
 
Dman,
You will need to adjust your front derailer like this, http://bicycletutor.com/adjust-front-derailer/

You can always test a 200w hub bike here, don't mention you already have an e bike until after the test ride, make sure to try it on a decent hill.
http://www.electricbicycle.com.au/contact.html :)
 
Thanks, I'll give that a try.

Some other good tutorials on that website about using gears.

How have people gone with the battery? Is it easy to get a bigger battery using the same mounting or even add another battery in parellel to the system? When this battery dies is it as simple as replacing the cells inside, or do you need to buy a full battery again.
 
Best and easiest way to get another battery is from http://www.pingbattery.com, get 20 ah, could get you around 40 or 50 klms full throttle.
Another place to test 200w hub, http://www.evehicles.com.au/index.shtml?openmenu=5 knoxfield.
Try one out, I would love to hear how it compares to elation system.
 
I have just turned 3000km on my elation with about 120 recharges with the battery. So far so good , yesterday I did a 65km trip and the battery was close to empty but after a charge I measured it at 29.1v. No point getting a bigger battery unless you need the extra range and can justify carrying the extra weight . I could use a 15ah battery to give me some extra km. I wonder if you could instal a ping battery into our battery case otherwise it creates an issue on where to mount it- i like the set up now as its neat and out of the way. Anyone know where the batteries that come with the kit come from?
 
I doubt you could fit any more ah in the existing batt. case.

Alan at Elation would be the only one who knows what brand of batteries he uses,I know they are pouch type. They must be pretty good though to get 65klms from a charge, considering these 200w motors can pull close to 20 amps, 2c,continuous.

Batteries such as ping etc, have to be mounted on rear rack or back pack.
 
i'm glad your experience with alan at elation worked out for you, however i should warn other users about dealing with elation bikes here is the link to the forum where others (and myself) have posted their issues with the hardware and the proprietor...

it's up on the aeva forum site, link below
http://www.aeva.asn.au/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=1387&PID=26686#26686

elation bikes wasted pretty much 4 months of my time with no result, thank goodness i didn't end up losing any money (only my precious time and patience), others don's seem to be as fortunate and forked out dosh for faulty equipment and tardy responses

there are many other very similar systems out there with excellent support
 
naughtee said:
i'm glad your experience with alan at elation worked out for you, however i should warn other users about dealing with elation bikes here is the link to the forum where others (and myself) have posted their issues with the hardware and the proprietor...

there are many other very similar systems out there with excellent support
Click to expand...

Wow - that's a bugger!

I bought my kit a few months ago (paid in advance for a much reduced price) and recieved it without any problems. Had the LBS (also an agent for Elation) fit the kit as I'm not mechanically minded.

Had a few problems with the bike (should have paid more and got a better one), but no problems at all with the Elation side of things.

Just love it. I'm not saying there are no problems (how would I know), but thought I'd mention my positive experience. I phoned Alan when deciding to purchase and he seemed nice enough, if perhaps a bit arrogent. I've emailed Alan over minor support questions (the best way to operate etc) and received prompt efficient replies.

naughtee - just for future reference what 'very similar system with excellent support' would you recommend that someone can purchase from one source and have the LBS fit with no drama?
 
a mate of mine has recently decided he is going to buy a conversion kit, he has kept me in the loop while he's been "researching", he is far more thoughrough than myself.

for me, after the elation debarkel, i simply sent $500 off to china and got a front wheel 500w hub with 3 sealed gel 12v 10ah batteries (connected in series), it arrived fine, was very easy to install and worked immediately on my existing bike (and tag-along for my child), lately i upgraded the battery to a 36v p04 thingy from www.solarbike.com.au which reduced the weight by 2/3rds, the initial battery did not work smoothly with my hub motor, and the proprietor of solarbike was fantastic, assisted me with all questions and eventually sent me a completely new battery with a controller that fixed the issue and my bike works like a dream (however i'm getting a little jealous with the system my friend is planning), he is dealing directly with www.cyclone-usa.com and has sent through the responses to questions etc these guys also appear to be fantastic (the electronics are a tad over my head, but there are loads of sites out there offering various systems and parts, batteries etc)

i have another set of buddies that bought a system (again from usa, not sure through who though), they had just returned from europe and were inspired to get one of those large bikes with a huge storage area at the back two large pannier thingies with room for their two kids to sit on aswell, (the rear wheel and tyre is rated at over 200kg!), their bike is a custom built jobbie and has a an electric motor running the crank (if you wish i can find out who they used for that but i think the whole bike cost a bucket load)
 
naughtee said:
a mate of mine has recently decided he is going to buy a conversion kit, he has kept me in the loop while he's been "researching", he is far more thoughrough than myself.

for me, after the elation debarkel, i simply sent $500 off to china and got a front wheel 500w hub with 3 sealed gel 12v 10ah batteries (connected in series), it arrived fine, was very easy to install and worked immediately on my existing bike (and tag-along for my child), lately i upgraded the battery to a 36v p04 thingy from http://www.solarbike.com.au which reduced the weight by 2/3rds, the initial battery did not work smoothly with my hub motor, and the proprietor of solarbike was fantastic, assisted me with all questions and eventually sent me a completely new battery with a controller that fixed the issue and my bike works like a dream (however i'm getting a little jealous with the system my friend is planning), he is dealing directly with http://www.cyclone-usa.com and has sent through the responses to questions etc these guys also appear to be fantastic (the electronics are a tad over my head, but there are loads of sites out there offering various systems and parts, batteries etc)

i have another set of buddies that bought a system (again from usa, not sure through who though), they had just returned from europe and were inspired to get one of those large bikes with a huge storage area at the back two large pannier thingies with room for their two kids to sit on aswell, (the rear wheel and tyre is rated at over 200kg!), their bike is a custom built jobbie and has a an electric motor running the crank (if you wish i can find out who they used for that but i think the whole bike cost a bucket load)
Click to expand...

naughtee - Both the 500w hub motor and the systems from cyclone-usa.com are over the Australian 200W limit. This may not be an issue for lots of people, but some people like to stay within the law. Also you outlined your battery issues and said you had to do a bit of 'fiddling' - not all of us are up to 'fiddling'.

It's also a little unfair to compare the Elation system to the cyclone. As far as I can see the cyclone only has one gear at the front - that would be a massive step backwards for my usage. Probably not a problem with 350 or 500w, but it would be with only 200w.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to knock other solutions. I'm just interested if there is another 'kit' that can do what the Elation does (for me at least). I have no doubt there are plenty of custom solutions as good or better than the Elation (even at 200w), but I'm interested in a single kit that my LBS can install.
 
I was planning to go for a decent ride but decided to look at how my cranks spin.

The new crank with sprocket doesn't spin straight on the bottom bracket spindle axle. It starts straight but seems to move left and then back straight - is this a problem? It seems to be put on the square bottom bracket spindle axle correctly, and securely tightened with a wrench. Either the bottom bracket spindle axle is worn or the new crankset with sprocket isn't straight. To my untrained eye they all look OK.

The bike is approx. 8 years old and the crank sets or bottom bracket had never been replaced (or taken off / looked at) until now.

The misalignment is really noticable if I hand spin the pedals backwards (on a wind trainer).

I want to see, based on experience, where the problem may be. I can always take the crankset to a bike shop if that is the problem. This problem is hard to articulate. Any advice?
 
hozozco said:
naughtee said:
a mate of mine has recently decided he is going to buy a conversion kit, he has kept me in the loop while he's been "researching", he is far more thoughrough than myself.

for me, after the elation debarkel, i simply sent $500 off to china and got a front wheel 500w hub with 3 sealed gel 12v 10ah batteries (connected in series), it arrived fine, was very easy to install and worked immediately on my existing bike (and tag-along for my child), lately i upgraded the battery to a 36v p04 thingy from http://www.solarbike.com.au which reduced the weight by 2/3rds, the initial battery did not work smoothly with my hub motor, and the proprietor of solarbike was fantastic, assisted me with all questions and eventually sent me a completely new battery with a controller that fixed the issue and my bike works like a dream (however i'm getting a little jealous with the system my friend is planning), he is dealing directly with http://www.cyclone-usa.com and has sent through the responses to questions etc these guys also appear to be fantastic (the electronics are a tad over my head, but there are loads of sites out there offering various systems and parts, batteries etc)

i have another set of buddies that bought a system (again from usa, not sure through who though), they had just returned from europe and were inspired to get one of those large bikes with a huge storage area at the back two large pannier thingies with room for their two kids to sit on aswell, (the rear wheel and tyre is rated at over 200kg!), their bike is a custom built jobbie and has a an electric motor running the crank (if you wish i can find out who they used for that but i think the whole bike cost a bucket load)
Click to expand...

naughtee - Both the 500w hub motor and the systems from cyclone-usa.com are over the Australian 200W limit. This may not be an issue for lots of people, but some people like to stay within the law. Also you outlined your battery issues and said you had to do a bit of 'fiddling' - not all of us are up to 'fiddling'.

It's also a little unfair to compare the Elation system to the cyclone. As far as I can see the cyclone only has one gear at the front - that would be a massive step backwards for my usage. Probably not a problem with 350 or 500w, but it would be with only 200w.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to knock other solutions. I'm just interested if there is another 'kit' that can do what the Elation does (for me at least). I have no doubt there are plenty of custom solutions as good or better than the Elation (even at 200w), but I'm interested in a single kit that my LBS can install.
Click to expand...

no problems, although the only fiddling was working out what was wrong with the battery that i purchased (i don't think we found that out in the end, it was simply worked around with a new controller and battery), i'd get out there with some more searches, as mentioned my "handy-man" skills are somewhat lacking, however with good support you should be able to put all sorts of devices on your bike :)

and no, as far as i can tell the cyclone uses all the gears available on the bike... i would contact them and ask (i didn't realise they were in australia, so give them a call)

good luck
 
If you do a search on here, lots of threads about cyclone.

Cyclone uses same motor as elation, cyclone has a single crank version with motor under frame, between rear wheel and bb.
The two crank version has motor on tube, same as elation, they have no three crank version.

From what I have read on here, the cyclone crank freewheel lasts about a month.
 
I took the Elation to another long ride, this time up the mountain of Morzine-Avoriaz to see Tour de France.

The climb was 500m to 1700m in 45km. Again I try to conserve the battery by pedalling but it's just simply a big climb. Battery was ok up to Morzine (45km) but on the way down I was tempted to race a few bikes downhill and flatten the battery at km 60 :lol:. But from there it's all downhill, I did 50kph with no motor and no pedalling. So the total trip was 90km with battery available to 60km.

IMGP3926-1.jpg


IMGP3967-1.jpg
 
Regarding the following volt meters, that are cheaper than the Cycle Analyst:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_listCategoriesAndProducts.asp?idCategory=237

Do they help at all? You really need proper predictive instrumentation.

How do they connect to the elation system if we are interested?

These guys also look to have a nice guage display on some of their bikes: http://www.electricbicycle.com.au/newsletters/TEBCO_10_July.pdf

The other day for my test I managed to get the red light on the controller, then very soon after the system
shutdown. I would have travelled about 25km's with almost no pedalling (and a very frozen face :) ).

I assume I should just stay in a much lower gear - I was at the upper end of my gear range - but
didn't realise until it was too late. I wasn't far from home, so it was a good test.

Edit: Also, the guide that comes with the kit recommends keeping the throttle at 20-30% for most of the ride. I have found that the motor hardly moves up until the throttle is at 80 - 100%. If I'm not sitting on the bike and testing it, the motor starts to move at about 20-30% throttle.
 
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