Halloween race in Tucscon !

[amberwolf]

Reminds me of a modified TourEasy (or clone), with some aero stuff added (and the engine). His is probably significantly lighter than mine, and I would bet it handles better, plus he's probably a better rider than I am. :lol:

I like fast, but fast doesn't like me, except in straight lines. Still, I'm willing to try if I can get the thing to go fast enough to stay out of everyone's way. I fully expect a fit person with a pedal-only bike could lap me though.

 

[dogman dan]

It's possible to run two classes in one race, provided they all fit in the starting grid. But it does complicate things, and requires more guys doing the scoring.

You could have next springs DR have three classes, with each heat being the class championship. Then put the winners of each class in the DR. It could still be laid back too, just suggest each heat be a type of motor. Some will want to run a heat, but no intention of running the DR. So let guys run unofficial if there is room in the last part of the grid. Class trophys could be pic of the guy on the podium sent later. And still allow some slower guys in if there is track room. If you must, make the last few spaces in the DR avaliable by drawing straws for the few that really want to run but were too slow in the class race. Keep it simple and fun for at least another year.

So maybe a two stroke class, a 4 stroke class, and an unlimited class. If you run an E class, it will be small for awhile, so we'd run simultaneous with whichever class is smallest. The whole trouble with much rules is enforcing them. Whatever you decide on has to be easy to spot, like no pit bike motors with gearbox. Letting one run the track but not trophy is a great idea though. But bump a guy like that if the crowd gets too big. Eventually maybe have an outlaw class that is the few guys with huge morinis that get 4 laps to duke it out. No trophy, just a few minuites track time and bragging rights.

At some point, you'll run into a track time crunch, but shortening the heats much more is not the answer. Eventually, there will have to be some kind of qualifying day or something. If nothing else, a one lap proof of your speed?

 

[dogman dan]

Looks like I'll be bringing my little honda 800w generator for sure. A test of my two 150 watt chargers running on just a deep cycle battery failed. So I'll need a dumb charger juicing up the lead battery to run my fast chargers. I'll only run it for about 45 min, so the gennie will be avaliable most of the day.

 

[Evoforce]

Dogman, So you are saying we can share the gen with you? That would be great if so. How many chargers do you think it can handle run off a power strip?

 

[dogman dan]

Probobally one. It's just a little 800 watt thing. I don't thik I'll have space in the car for my bigger one. But FR 31 will likely set us up something. He has a generator that could run several chargers. There is power there too, it just was locked up in the garage area last spring. No plugs on the outside of the garage bldgs. So maybe they will just run some cords out the door for us. If nothing else, there is still a plug out by the front of the place, that I used last year.

I'm getting really excited to race again. That track is so fun. completely free of those pesky cars.

 

[Evoforce]

So you really believe that I can rest easy and not spend anymore time locating one?

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah. Looking at it again, I can squeeze my 3500 watt generator into the car if we need it. That could supply power for 2-3 chargers at once. But I think FR31 will set us up something. He has a generator, so likely he'll bring it, or enough cord to give us power from the garage. Despite the EV crowds typical disgust with gas stuff, they are making us very much welcome at the track. The track owner has an electric motorcycle btw. The day may come when electric racing there is a monthly or even weekly thing. The track is still not fully developed, so the pits are not complete at this time. No doubt some nice plugs are in the plans.

 

[Fr31]

Well my small generator was not getting any fuel so I pulled the carb off and when I went to to pull the bowl off the carb fell apart now there is no way to put the bowl back on (cheap Chinese junk as usual). I would have to replace the carb and thats just not gonna happen.

And my big generator runs but puts out nothing. Not sure why something must be burned up somewhere. I will still try to get it working but I think we will just have to make plans to get power from the track.

 

[dogman dan]

I'll bring my 3000 watt generator then. And some long cord in case something goes wrong with that. Should be strong enough to run 6-8 chargers.

 

[Evoforce]

Ok, I just read a post on the motorized bike forum and they said the track opens up at 10:00 to practice. The riders meeting is at 1:00.

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah I might have to get up a bit earlier. Not that sleep will happen that night. I was planning on shaving a motel night off the trip and drive in on Sat. I'll try for an 11:00 arrival. With more time before the heats start, I could run my 20s pack in practice more. I'd love to do 8 laps at full speed instead of being limited to 27 mph on the other bike.

 

[dogman dan]

The last batch of lipo just arrived. So I'm all set. See ya there!

 

[Evoforce]

Well bonzo and Hector wimped out on going. I was getting that feeling. At least I was told a week ahead of time. So, we have a couple of empty seats headed south to Tucson on race day. Anyone need a ride from Phoenix metro to race. We have a truck and enclosed race trailer hauling our bikes. Give me a PM if interested.

 

[dogman dan]

If they have kids, it could be a day they need to do other things. Too bad, they don't realize what they will be missing. Even for a real E kook like me, just seeing the gas bikes is amazing. Some really nice fabrication on display last spring for sure. Well worth attending the event even if you never throw a leg over the bike.

As for me, one lap on that track was all it took. I love pulling g's in the corners. But out on the street you have traffic, debris in every corner, parked cars, curbs to hit. That squeaky clean track with no curbs to hit if you go wide is heaven to me. Even if you don't actually race, the practice session before is very fun. Plus the yak session with all the guys.

 

[amberwolf]

Well, it loks like I didn't blow anything up after all, so my motors and my controllers are working, plus I fixed two more controllers.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=325680#p325680
I'm gonna figure out a lacing pattern for some longish (but shortest I have) spokes on the 9C/GM1000W combo into a 24" crappy Huffy steel rim (only kind I have), and see if I can not break the wheel testing it out with a Methods 18FET just fixed tonite.

Then gotta figure out what batteries to use at what voltage, vs current draws and such. Maybe I can end up racing something after all.

 

[Evoforce]

Cool, I'm glad it all worked out. I just don't know how I am going to have the time to get my race bike done. I am still stuck/nested on the jobsite. RATS...

 

[amberwolf]

Well, you could stop sleeping. It's such a waste of time, anyway.

 

[John in CR]

...I love pulling g's in the corners...

It's great seeing you transform from a pedalist ebiker, who thought ebikes have no business going 30mph or more, to an ebiker racer craving more and stockpiling the batteries. Just wait till you do a high power 2wd or big power and high voltage with the X5 you have so you have strong acceleration at 30mph. There's something about strong near silent acceleration that is a unique feeling that's addictive.

Something I've noticed since my last controller upgrade to the Lyen 24fet is that I actually ride slower than I used to ride 6 months ago. I'm not after all out speed, and that's why I've yet to top DocBass's speed number, even though I easily could with about 2 hours of prep time for a battery mod and controller swap to my high voltage controllers that are yet unused. It's the g-force that I love, so I cruise around slower to give me more opportunities to show off acceleration leaving cars and motos eating my dust. Actually it's not dust or smoke or sound, so I guess the only thing they get to eat is my 10-20% waste heat.

Just yesterday I was at a moto shop picking up a tire for the new monster hubbie I got in, and as always the workers were gawking my daily rider which even after 2 years is just a quite useful but ugly test. A moto rider stopped in to pick up a part and starts talking up how fast my ebike is. Now he's on a dirt bike I know I don't have a chance against, and I don't recognize the guy, so he must be one of those guys I caught by surprise and had to lay on the throttle pretty hard just to catch up before I turned. I just smiled in the knowledge that very soon I won't have to surprise any of them and can successfully challenge all but the serious cars or gasser motos.

Welcome to the high power crowd Dogman...You're just getting to the edge of the good stuff, so there's lots more fun to follow.

John

 

[John in CR]

Well, you could stop sleeping. It's such a waste of time, anyway.

I figured that one out years ago. Now I can go directly to REM sleep as needed and 4-5hrs per day or night is sufficient.

 

[dogman dan]

I still think much more than 30 mph out in the streets in much of the USA is pretty much asking to get whacked by a car. They just don't realize you are going that fast and pull out or turn into your path constantly. After I slowed my commuter bike back down to 20 mph max the ride got a lot more pleasant, and the daily brush with death stopped happening so much.

Different where you live John, as is clearly evident in your videos. You can just see that all drivers are paying attention there, unlike the typical US driver that is texting, fiddling with his gps or just zoned out. There are others who posted vids of fast bikes in US traffic that make me think, " well, one day there will suddenly be no more posts from this guy, till he gets out of the hospital, if ever."

But it all depends on how visible you are, how alert the other drivers are, how crowded it is, etc. The New York messenger guys ride traffic like the devil, and some have done it for years. Others last a week and get thiers. So rider skill is a huge factor. So is distance traveled. I just wasn't comfy with 2 hours a day of being that wary. Slowing back down made the ride pleasant again for me, as well as for the others sharing the trail on that part of my ride.

I swore I wouldn't ride the race bike out in the streets, but that went out the window pretty fast. :lol: :lol: But I can ride it on weekday afternoons when a car goes down the street I live on once an hour. Once on the streets where the houses aren't built yet, I can let er rip on a test. But really, it just isn't practical to ride that bike much on the street. No springs, 46 mph, it didn't take long to bust the first spoke on the back wheel. A suspension bike though, could tempt me to ride for fun in less crowded places. Most of the parts for that are here in the garage now, so it's coming for spring.

Dirt bikes, ridden off road, can never have too much power really. But a fast motor with not enough power can lead to the kind of funny vid I posted the other day. I needed to keep the speed up, since the motor was not so strong and wound fast. But with no rear brake I had a problem every time I found myself going too fast. The Ideal combo for dirt might be 3000 watts, but a 25 mph top speed.

Lastly, I still say that perhaps as much as 80% of bikes do get pretty sketchy above 30 mph, motor or no motor. Pretty much all the wallmart bikes, many of the cheaper schwinns, etc have very flexy aluminum frames or steel frames with obviously weak welds. So those frames are a bit hazardous to ride fast. My current race bike has an exceptionally strong frame, and stil feels great at 46 mph. So the bike you start with has a huge impact, as well as how you carry the battery and motor weight.

 

[John in CR]

I'm not talking about high power on a normal short wheelbase high CG upright bike. Regarding speed on the road, you need enough to pace traffic to feel safe and then your chances of getting whacked drop dramatically. They must because you cross paths with less cars and those you do is for a far shorter time. Cars pulling out or turning in front of you will always be an issue, but being able to own a full lane gives you flexibility in position that reduces exposure time to fractions of a second and more room for evasive maneuvers. Riding at the side of the road is more dangerous in many ways, from visibility to obstacles to sheer space to cars passing constantly any of which could drift out of their lane at any time. Plus you have to trust every passing car not to run over you from behind, and I simply don't trust any of them. Out in front of me at least I have a fighting chance to avoid their errors, just like I've been doing for decades in cars and on motos.

Motorcycles are less likely to get whacked because of all this. Your problem is that you'll have to go considerably faster than I do to achieve it, so it may not be realistic. It goes without saying that you need a vehicle that is safe at those speeds, and your risk in the event of an accident goes up with speed. I can't wait until batteries become cheap enough with higher energy density, so we can buy very light electric motorcycles very cheap, something with much better performance than the moped that was trying to get you killed due in large part to its limited speed.

I tried that 30mph and below riding with my first 2 ebikes, and thanks but no thanks. They were kinda fun when there wasn't any traffic, but traffic was terrifying. Now I actually enjoy riding in traffic. Once every couple of months I may get bent out of shape over a driver mistake, but that puts me in the proper mood to catch them and give them the riot act on behalf of all cyclists.

My point before though was about you loving the G's in the curves, and acceleration G's are even more addictive, even if you'll only be able to use them on the track for now.

 

[dogman dan]

Oh yeah, always been an acceleration g addict. That's why I parked the big motorcycle for good after the day I tried to kill myself three times in 15 min on it. Didn't ride anything two wheeled except the occasional blast on a borrowed dirt bike for 20 years. Bad bad right hand!

So I went skiing for 20 years and got my g's cranking turns on double black runs. Adrenaline is a food group. Even better than g's is hang time, hucking the cliffs, but the g's landing are part of why my back is shot. :lol: Too many overshot jumps landing on the flats.

I do agree, if you don't have a nice big bike lane or path to ride in like I do, then keeping up with traffic is crucial. Every town is different. I'm lucky to have places safe to ride slower. But the big problem that won't go away in the US is looking like a bike, going as fast as a motorcycle. They look at you, see you, think, " bike= 10 mph, and out they come from the parking lot. In this case, it might be better to be on one of the scooter look ebikes, than a mountain bike equipped stealth.

Speaking of safety, the flea market was good to me today. After looking for months, today it coughed up the riding jacket I needed for the race. A very nice technical garmet with shoulder, elbow and forarm hard armor, and two layers of soft pad on the back. $50. Whoo Hoo! It even matches the armored pants I have, so I will look bright, but not clashing colors. So I'm all set for rolling around on the track, should that happen.

 

[John in CR]

Nice score on the armored jacket. I guess I should stop egging you on if you have an undisciplined right hand. There's something different about electrics though, because at least for me, less performance than a gasser is more fun.

 

[Tiberius]

I still think much more than 30 mph out in the streets in much of the USA is pretty much asking .......
... Slowing back down made the ride pleasant again for me, as well as for the others sharing the trail on that part of my ride. ...

Hi dogman,

I agree with John that you are now sounding like a racer, but for me its this post that does it.

Here you are arguing for going slower on the streets and drawing a clear distinction between the street and the track.

Good luck in Tucson, keep us posted.

Nick

 

[dogman dan]

Thanks for the support, all of you. It really has motivated me to build a good bike, spend the money on batteries and controllers etc. Last spring you all pitched in and bought me the first 72v controller when I was still pretty tight for money. I haven't forgotten that. Nor the patient help with lipo decisions last spring.

So now I really have reasons to try my best to make a good showing in Tucscon, and bring in data that helps others build a competitive bike for future competitions. I still don't know if I'm a real "racer". Not so willing to do anything to win. But I do love the hell out of scaring the shit out of myself and the Musselman track is a good place to do that. You want to really get scared though, try having the burner go out on a hot air balloon, or have the wind pick up while aloft. But flying has such serious consequences and costs so much. Racing an ebike is way cheap and safe compared to owning aircraft.

I had a good one riding yesterday though, I overcooked a corner and with the curb coming at me fast I found out two things. One, I can do a stoppie on my race bike ( first one ever on anything) , and two you can really steer a bike sharply once slowed down when in unicycle mode . Looks like my tires are adequate though, since I kept it up doing all that.

Way back in the 80's when I parked my KZ 750 I realized that my bad right hand wasn't growing up. The stuff I was doing out in the street was going to get me killed, and worse maybe somebody else. So I made that distinction then that at some point, the fun was going to have to go to the track or out in the dirt. Having no health insurance for most of my life played a role in the decision too. Some guys I knew did die, and I wasn't ready to die yet at 25.

So now, I'm finding the motorized bike racing perfect for me. I've always been comfy on two wheels up to about 50 mph. So far the tight corners on the track keep speeds below that so it's perfect for my comfort level while still being plenty exciting. My bad right hand is still happy with the throttle on the stop of a slower bike than a KZ 750.