Lithium battery fire risk and information.

Not a Tesla comment, but one of the competitors got *destroyed* by Sandy. I think it was Fiskar? new uber fast ev, sandy hit the storage yard and there was a LOT of footage of cars about window deep goint FaaaWOOOSH over and over. I am not sure it killed the company but it did scare the peasants quit a bit.
 
Not a Tesla comment, but one of the competitors got *destroyed* by Sandy. I think it was Fiskar? new uber fast ev, sandy hit the storage yard and there was a LOT of footage of cars about window deep goint FaaaWOOOSH over and over. I am not sure it killed the company but it did scare the peasants quit a bit.
An ICE car that gets window deep in floodwater is a write off too, so "fawhoosh" was just the auto destruct feature intended to prevent shady sales of flood damaged cars...;)
 
Pfft, I carried C4 wrapped around my ankle, 12 ampules of morphine in my hip pouch, and all kinds of other stupid.
All designed with weird tolerances then unleashed on the lowest bidder.

I have been working on a hunting lodge power system, we have come to the point where the best bet is solar with a good sized hydroxy genset for the interim periods (it is in Montana, that interim period is called winter) Never thought twice with the test rig and it's wee babby of a 10L storage cel. Set it up in the backyard and let the dogs run around it like idiots...

It is not *intended* to ever explode, in my world that is a total win
 
Not a Tesla comment, but one of the competitors got *destroyed* by Sandy. I think it was Fiskar? new uber fast ev, sandy hit the storage yard and there was a LOT of footage of cars about window deep goint FaaaWOOOSH over and over. I am not sure it killed the company but it did scare the peasants quit a bit.
Fisker (Karma,..was a hybrid) went down primarily because of a series of battery failures and fires during their initial production period.
that was a result of defective pouch cells supplied by A123,…who also subseqently crashed and burned as a business !
Both companies were later reborn under new ownership and management !
 
Are there any fire risk data on DIY Lithium batteries such as ones built by ES forum members? How does it compare to commercial off the shelf batteries from worst to best?
 
Are there any fire risk data on DIY Lithium batteries such as ones built by ES forum members? How does it compare to commercial off the shelf batteries from worst to best?

I don't think there's data for anything you mentioned.

Only old timers who have been here for over a decade.
 
In conversations like this on various forums, I'm often surprised how many people afraid of EVs have no problem with the idea of carrying a pressurized container of hydrogen in their car.
Senators, whether Republican or Democrats, have no complaints hauling gallons and gallons of gasoline in their foreign-made cars.
Biden would probably prefer that Air Force One was DC powered instead of using petroleum-based explosive fuels ;)
 
As someone who buys used batteries off Facebook, atomizes them, and rebuilds them, I'd say the DIY ones are usually pretty scary. People super glue the cells together and wrap them in cardboard. That's way more dangerous than using proper cell spacers. You are just a bit of friction away from rubbing through the plastic sleeves on the cells and boom, short. Only thing scarier than DIY is UPP. UPP doesn't match cells based on capacity, just considers using cells from the same manufacturing batch to be matched, and doesn't use a balancing BMS unless you specifically request it and pay more.
 
I didn't think so. Would you venture a guess?

- I've yet to hear a tale of an em3ev or ebikes.ca battery fire, only cheap ones.
- Most battery fire reports come from cheap Chinese packs with Chinese cells. UPP quality, or worse.
- DIY builder battery fires seem to be less common, even during the RC Lipo craze of the 2010's.

I agree with @lnanek That DIY seems safer on average.. at least on this forum.
 
As someone who buys used batteries off Facebook, atomizes them, and rebuilds them, I'd say the DIY ones are usually pretty scary. People super glue the cells together and wrap them in cardboard. That's way more dangerous than using proper cell spacers. You are just a bit of friction away from rubbing through the plastic sleeves on the cells and boom, short. Only thing scarier than DIY is UPP. UPP doesn't match cells based on capacity, just considers using cells from the same manufacturing batch to be matched, and doesn't use a balancing BMS unless you specifically request it and pay more.
How difficult is it to check if the cells are balanced, whether it has a BMS, in my 3 year old 48V 28 AH lithium battery?

1707070524954.png
 
The process typically involves disassembling the battery and using a multimeter to check and record the status of each group.
Quite a pain in the ass, and sometimes a little dangerous.
Which is why nobody does it.

I like em3ev batteries because they have a bluetooth BMS that can show you the battery state through your phone.
I think this should be a minimum feature for a battery.
 
Also, that bike looks like it has a honker of a battery in it, wow, how big is it?
 
How difficult is it to check if the cells are balanced, whether it has a BMS, in my 3 year old 48V 28 AH lithium battery?
if you can open the casing to see if there is a BMS, you should be able to check on the ballance wires to the BMS
if there is no BMS, then assume the worst and strip down until you can check on each cell group.
 
I like em3ev batteries because they have a bluetooth BMS that can show you the battery state through your phone.
I think this should be a minimum feature for a battery.
Me too!

I used to be against using a BMS because I saw too many 'mystery' failures ultimately caused by the BMS itself.

Since (certain), reliable bluetooth BMS have come to market, I now exclusively any only sell batteries including one. IMO there is no point having a BMS if you can't check that it's still working.

Cheers
 
Just came across a youtube video, where a guy with 425K subscribers gives the "secret" of reviving dead tool batteries. He is paralleling the B+ and B- on Dewalt packs til they start taking a charge, It's up to 926K views in the 3 weeks it's been up. Kind of sad. Perhaps a Dewalt attorney will set him straight,

I was curious if any youtubers do the same with ebike packs. I found one guy, with only 25K views, but plenty of "yeah, baby!" comments. He had a 7S battery with one cell group sitting at 0.5V and another at 1.7V. He bypassed the BMS and brought his pack up to full voltage with a lab supply, Yeah Baby. Kaboom!

I bet over half of the NYC battery fires come from owners who can't afford good batteries and who resort to unsafe tricks like these to keep their bikes/scooters running.
 
if you can open the casing to see if there is a BMS, you should be able to check on the ballance wires to the BMS
if there is no BMS, then assume the worst and strip down until you can check on each cell group.
If I feel adventurous one day, I may open it up.
I bet over half of the NYC battery fires come from owners who can't afford good batteries and who resort to unsafe tricks like these to keep their bikes/scooters running.
The Arrow 48V 28 AH battery costs between $400 to $500 from the dealers around here. At that price point, would you call that a good or bad battery? I am not aware of any cheaper options.
 
The Arrow 48V 28 AH battery costs between $400 to $500 from the dealers around here. At that price point, would you call that a good or bad battery? I am not aware of any cheaper options.
You're asking folks long distance to rate your battery's quality based on its local retail price?

IMHO, no way to really tell except for opening it up and studying the components, materials, build quality and methods, and testing the cells.
 
How difficult is it to check if the cells are balanced, whether it has a BMS, in my 3 year old 48V 28 AH lithium battery?
You own an Arrow with a tall silverfish battery. In my opinion, the silverfish case is a pretty durable, well designed case that has been around for over 10 years. Sticks around because even though it costs more than a plastic box, it works,

I've got one silverfish. Here, I've removed the ends and pushed the battery package out. It was held with adhesives, so I had to insert long blades to cut the glue.
bday-1.JPG

You could probably do this without pushing the cells out, but it does make it easier to open the shrinkwrap to access the BMS. This battery happens to be well made under the green shrink wrap, with a fiberboard covers under it, protecting a plastic frame. Some cheap designs just glue the cells together, without a frame, which is dangerous if they get loose.

fish4.jpg

Then you can access the balance connector to measure the voltages. I use pins to get inside the smale holes, where my voltmeter probes cannot go.

P8100179.JPG

As Neptronix said, it's a hazardous job if you happen to short circuit a wire and send 50 amps thru it. I wouldn't recommend it, if you're just curious.

As long as the battery gives you a good range, leave it alone. If it starts shutting off after ten miles orless, then it's unbalanced. You still gotta leave it alone. Unbalanced packs are really hard to fix and keep them fixed. If you replace the bad cells, there are others bound to do the same thing.

As for the above battery, I replaced five bad cells and felt pretty smart. Then another five cells went bad over the winter. I bought a new battery and gave the bike to my son.
 
I have sold a new battery to the lovely old marm down the row, she saw me puttering and splaned her mobility blah blah, can't drive no more, gubmint took her license so now... Scooter to the market. Amazingly i "found" a replacement in her 125$ price range.

Hey not every post is about eating a marketing team
 
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