Mac10t verses HS3540 on 1600 watts

[dogman dan]

Yeah, I have to agree with Madrhino. What works for him on his terrain doesn't work for me. A lot of that is due to my desire not to fly over the handlebars any faster than 25 mph, and really, a lot of my trail riding is sub 15 mph. So that eliminates normal hubmotor windings that suffer sub 15 mph.

Some of the trails are crazy steep, climbing up really rocky desert mountains. Almost rock staircases, they'll bend a rim or shred a tire if ridden fast. Put it this way, the motorcycles won't touch em with a ten foot pole. They stay off, and not because of the signs. Trials bikes could tackle em of course. Lower on the mountain, motorcycles get on the bike trails and tear em up despite the signs saying don't. Down on the approach trails, you can ride anything on them. I rode em quite a bit with 350 w front hubs.

Anyway, part of my approach has been searching for an ebike motor that could take on the very hardest of those trails, and for me the very slow winding on 72v is the sweet spot.

An HS on 90v or so would be a sweet ride on many of the local dirt roads though. It's just that then if you stuff a front wheel into a hole at 40 mph, it hurts a lot more when you land. Bear in mind, it's all rocks and cactus here. I did that stuff plenty on motorcycles in my youth. Now I just want to hit the ground a bit slower. I could just ride so I never crash, but that would eliminate 90% of the nice challenging roads and trails.

 

[Tommy L]

Yep, HS 3540, HT 3525 In 26" wheels

Then I guess it will be a HS3540 for my next victim! :lol: :lol:

Are you really throwing 10kw at this motor?
Are you Cooling it?
and what is the average kw that you do continuous?

Thank you MandRhino!

Tommy L sends...., \\m// Rocking Onward every single day! \\m//

 

[veloman]

I think the Mac is the motor for the real world ebiker. The ebiker who can't afford or want to deal with tons of lipo and a huge battery. Sure, you need to throw multikilowatts at a DD to move it. The Mac will sip watts and still get you off the line and up hills.


You'll find that the DD guys who have good performance, they are in the 30+wh/mile range. The guys riding a Mac/BMC at respectable speeds can get in the 18-25wh/mile range easily.

I ride my 8t mac 26" wheel at 1200watts on a 16s lifepo4 9.2ah a123 cellman battery. It 'moves' IMO, is plug n play, and will last a very long time. I'm very happy with this setup.

 

[neptronix]

I think the Mac is the motor for the real world ebiker. The ebiker who can't afford or want to deal with tons of lipo and a huge battery. Sure, you need to throw multikilowatts at a DD to move it. The Mac will sip watts and still get you off the line and up hills.

It is actually, on the flats, a little less efficient than most DDs.
It is notably more efficient when hill climbing than a DD of equivalent power - however a larger DD would be more efficient.

You don't need multiple kilowatts to 'just move' a DD.

That being said, for casual riding, my MAC bike is my daily driver.
For truly hauling ass, you need a big DD. The MAC / BMC motors can only handle so much power.

 

[MadRhino]

Then I guess it will be a HS3540 for my next victim! :lol: :lol:

Are you really throwing 10kw at this motor?
Are you Cooling it?
and what is the average kw that you do continuous?

I run it sometimes with an 18 fet 4110 that is pulling 150A batt
The motor pulls above 10Kw a few times in one lap, but half of it is DH and sure help to cool
Needless to say it is pushing the limits, but my mountain ride is short and very fast
12 Km is my longest trail and I can do it 14 minutes in the ideal conditions, consuming about 4.2 Ah out of a 24s 1p 5800mah batt
I don't cool the motor, not even cooling holes, but I don't use it when the trails are slow and would make it overheat.
I monitored temp of an HS motor for two months, and I know now exactly what I can and can't do
The H motors can't take much continuous current, cooling is a must to improve that and I plan liquid cooling , some day
I can get away with overpower, only because I do it fast and short. most of my trails are less than 9 Km

 

[Tommy L]

I run it sometimes with an 18 fet 4110 that is pulling 150A batt
The motor pulls above 10Kw a few times in one lap, but half of it is DH and sure help to cool
Needless to say it is pushing the limits, but my mountain ride is short and very fast
12 Km is my longest trail and I can do it 14 minutes in the ideal conditions, consuming about 4.2 Ah out of a 24s 1p 5800mah batt
I don't cool the motor, not even cooling holes, but I don't use it when the trails are slow and would make it overheat.
I monitored temp of an HS motor for two months, and I know now exactly what I can and can't do
The H motors can't take much continuous current, cooling is a must to improve that and I plan liquid cooling , some day
I can get away with overpower, only because I do it fast and short. most of my trails are less than 9 Km

I've read thru a few of the Liquid Cooling threads
Makes a lot of sense! Great info. Thank you kindly!

Tommy L sends.....\\m//

 

[Tommy L]

I think the Mac is the motor for the real world ebiker. The ebiker who can't afford or want to deal with tons of lipo and a huge battery. Sure, you need to throw multikilowatts at a DD to move it. The Mac will sip watts and still get you off the line and up hills.


You'll find that the DD guys who have good performance, they are in the 30+wh/mile range. The guys riding a Mac/BMC at respectable speeds can get in the 18-25wh/mile range easily.

I ride my 8t mac 26" wheel at 1200watts on a 16s lifepo4 9.2ah a123 cellman battery. It 'moves' IMO, is plug n play, and will last a very long time. I'm very happy with this setup.

This makes a lot of sense. I've purchased the DD 9C 2810 for a couple of reasons.
1. I wanted to eventually go high voltage to gain higher speeds.
2. I wanted to see where efficiency lies using a high voltage set up
3. 9C 2810 comes in at a very reasonable price.

At 36v 22-26kph was achieved at 128v 70.7kph
at 89v 20-26wh/km 45-55kph

I would say that a "No Frills" approach would be best in general. Either DD or Geared hub @ 48v nom 1200watts 50kph/30mph max.
And spend money on HYDRAULIC BRAKES. I put Juicy 3 on my front and really enjoy it 8)

I have some A123 12v 9.2a/h packs and they seem to hold 5-6C (45-54 amps) without sagging below 3v
At 80% DoD and using 20wh/km a 16s 9.2ah pack should take you 17km

I guess I will have to try a Mac or BMC one day.

Tommy L sends.... \\m//

 

[z50king]

Thank you for this thread. It has changed my mind on a future build.

 

[veloman]

I think the Mac is the motor for the real world ebiker. The ebiker who can't afford or want to deal with tons of lipo and a huge battery. Sure, you need to throw multikilowatts at a DD to move it. The Mac will sip watts and still get you off the line and up hills.


You'll find that the DD guys who have good performance, they are in the 30+wh/mile range. The guys riding a Mac/BMC at respectable speeds can get in the 18-25wh/mile range easily.

I ride my 8t mac 26" wheel at 1200watts on a 16s lifepo4 9.2ah a123 cellman battery. It 'moves' IMO, is plug n play, and will last a very long time. I'm very happy with this setup.

I wrote this 2 years ago. About a year ago I started riding a HT in a 26" wheel on 72v. I can easily get 17wh/mile on it (that bike does have a front fairing). I like both, the 8T mac and the HT. Losing interest in the 9c because the Clytes just have more torque. The slow wind 2810 9c is still okay if you don't want to go above 28mph, but they are noisier. The mac is still my favorite for city riding. Just need to cool it down for the summer. Going to try gluing heatsinks on it. I glued one with thermal adhesive on my fiance's EVT scooter hub, and it's still holding on fine. Maybe grind off the black paint where possible. I hate how hub motors are black. It's a heat sponge in the sun.