Max charge current to have balance on?

[rg12]

His reply 8)
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I can understand some of that being locked but current calibration isn’t one of those. Every other bms lets the user have access to the current calibration, and warns them they can get there bms abnormal if they calibrate it wrong. Lol.

I also wanted to try different baud rate to see if the lag reduces.

What lag are you experiencing?
Mine suprisingly works like the old version speed wise.
I click set and it beeps immediately in the BMS

 

[BareKuda]

What lag are you experiencing?
Mine suprisingly works like the old version speed wise.
I click set and it beeps immediately in the BMS

On iOS app its smooth as silk but only allows passive monitoring because you cant set anything with it:
[youtube] https://youtu.be/dcXhJM7K4yI[/youtube]

With android mybms 1.3.0 which allows setting changed its very laggy on the STATE page when scrolling between dashboard and cells:
[youtube] https://youtu.be/Uw6kMQTdUUI[/youtube]

When using mybms 1.3.25 its almost all on one screen so no scrolling except if you have a long list of warnings, but the problem is it doesnt scale to my phone like 1.3.0 does, regardless of font or screen settings:


Some dashboard data totally of screen.

 

[BareKuda]

Also im wondering if you know what method is used in SOC Methods 1, 2 and 3? I haven’t been able to figure it out.

With LiFePO4 I clearly want AH discharge to be primary for SOC but since i can’t calibrate charge, discharge current indefinitely like other BMS i cant set it up as a coulomb counter because i need to compensate for round trip losses.

So using something that uses voltage to verify SOC might work but if i knew each method i can choose the best one,

 

[rg12]

Also im wondering if you know what method is used in SOC Methods 1, 2 and 3? I haven’t been able to figure it out.

With LiFePO4 I clearly want AH discharge to be primary for SOC but since i can’t calibrate charge, discharge current indefinitely like other BMS i cant set it up as a coulomb counter because i need to compensate for round trip losses.

So using something that uses voltage to verify SOC might work but if i knew each method i can choose the best one,

Don't know about that one.

About the lag, I don't experience it at 1.3.0 on andoid.
The old app was always pretty crappy and didn't work on half the phones and some experienced weird disconnections and numbers thrown all over the place.

The iphone version was also pretty limited, you could change settings but if you implemented a password then you don't have a way to type in a password so the best option was always to go with android.
I know people who bought an android especially for the ant bms :lol:

 

[BareKuda]

I know people who bought an android especially for the ant bms :lol:

Yes, im one of them. First I bought a $70 android and it wouldn’t install any of the newer apps with the 6 password slots. Then i went back and traded it $200 android phones just to use a $70 BMS.

If your phone scrolls the state page smoothly with no jittering then it’s probably one of the flagship phones running something from Qualcomm instead of mediatek.

My iOS app wont even read the settings but the settings gave user access to currect calibration.

I think ANT is going to lose sales to other BMS that have working apps on both platforms and let the user calibrate current like JDB bms does.

 

[rg12]

I know people who bought an android especially for the ant bms :lol:

Yes, im one of them. First I bought a $70 android and it wouldn’t install any of the newer apps with the 6 password slots. Then i went back and traded it $200 android phones just to use a $70 BMS.

If your phone scrolls the state page smoothly with no jittering then it’s probably one of the flagship phones running something from Qualcomm instead of mediatek.

My iOS app wont even read the settings but the settings gave user access to currect calibration.

I think ANT is going to lose sales to other BMS that have working apps on both platforms and let the user calibrate current like JDB bms does.

I hate a bms that doesn't have a busbar across the fets and has 3 wires coming out of each side of it.
Such cost saving and lame/lazy design.
That's why I hate JBD and love ANT with all their flaws.

 

[BareKuda]

I know people who bought an android especially for the ant bms :lol:

Yes, im one of them. First I bought a $70 android and it wouldn’t install any of the newer apps with the 6 password slots. Then i went back and traded it $200 android phones just to use a $70 BMS.

If your phone scrolls the state page smoothly with no jittering then it’s probably one of the flagship phones running something from Qualcomm instead of mediatek.

My iOS app wont even read the settings but the settings gave user access to currect calibration.

I think ANT is going to lose sales to other BMS that have working apps on both platforms and let the user calibrate current like JDB bms does.

I hate a bms that doesn't have a busbar across the fets and has 3 wires coming out of each side of it.
Such cost saving and lame/lazy design.
That's why I hate JBD and love ANT with all their flaws.

I think the ANT also uses multiple wires on their high current models. Mine is the 50A (70a peak) and only has one AWG 10 wires. Hopefully i can buy some dies for my hand crimper that will let me get a decent crimp. I dont want to buy a hydraulic crimper for 2 connectors. Lol

 

[eMark]

My question is, why is it bad to have balance on when charging at say 20A?
Why wouldn't it balance at any charge speed?

Here's the Real Deal (JMO) ...

If you've got even just one weak/poor cell in just one of your parallel groups even using a 5A active equalizer balancer board before bulk charging may take forever and still not balance the p-groups within 100mV of each other.

IMO, you're asking for trouble trying to balance charge at such a high charge rate (e.g. 20A). It's hard enuf if not next to impossible even charging at 10A if the active balancing rate is as much as 5A. Let's assume for the sake of absurdity that the active balance rate is 20A (the same as the charge rate). Now if you can't figure out why this is absurd than this post of mine is a Waste of Words.

JMO ... most likely the reason AW and LFP haven't posted is because they may be just shaking their head in disbelief at the thread title and your initial post (portion of it posted above). Please don't be offended, but IMO your quest is a good example of what i consider the herd mentality which usually can be summed up as "Haste Makes Waste" or WoW.

Then again maybe it's I that's in the dark and you're a ray of sunshine

 

[eMark]

My question is, why is it bad to have balance on when charging at say 20A?
Why wouldn't it balance at any charge speed?

Here's the Reality ...

If you've got even just one weak/poor cell in just one of your parallel groups even using a 5A active equalizer balancer board before bulk charging ... LotsOfLuck-LOL. Even after hours it still may not balance the p-groups within 100mV of each other ... before bulk charging. Using a 5A active balance board during bulk charging at 20A is :lol: (JMO). But you could use it after bulk charging. However, you're defeating the purpose of charging at 20A rate as top balancing could take at least an hour.

If the cells in your pack are in good condition you don't need to balance charge. If the cells in your pack aren't in good condition than bottom balancing is preferred if you have the time, right equipment and know-how. It takes less time to bottom balance p-groups whether within 20mV or 100mV than it does to top balance the p-groups whether within 20Mv or 100mV of each other.

IMO, you're asking for trouble trying to balance charge at such a high charge rate (e.g. 20A). It's challenging enuf charging at 10A with active balancing rate of 5A during bulk charging.

Please don't be offended, but IMO your quest is a good example of what i consider the "herd mentality" which is "faster, faster": It's everywhere, it's everywwhere until you're past 70 yrs :wink: Even at 77 yrs i find myself sometimes getting sucked in ... it's inevitable for example i wish by e-Cargo Trike top speed was 15mph instead of 12mph. One advantage of being retired i'm no longer in a hurry :thumb:

 

[rg12]

My question is, why is it bad to have balance on when charging at say 20A?
Why wouldn't it balance at any charge speed?

Here's the Reality ...

If you've got even just one weak/poor cell in just one of your parallel groups even using a 5A active equalizer balancer board before bulk charging ... LotsOfLuck-LOL. Even after hours it still may not balance the p-groups within 100mV of each other ... before bulk charging. Using a 5A active balance board during bulk charging at 20A is :lol: (JMO). But you could use it after bulk charging. However, you're defeating the purpose of charging at 20A rate as top balancing could take at least an hour.

If the cells in your pack are in good condition you don't need to balance charge. If the cells in your pack aren't in good condition than bottom balancing is preferred if you have the time, right equipment and know-how. It takes less time to bottom balance p-groups whether within 20mV or 100mV than it does to top balance the p-groups whether within 20Mv or 100mV of each other.

IMO, you're asking for trouble trying to balance charge at such a high charge rate (e.g. 20A). It's challenging enuf charging at 10A with active balancing rate of 5A during bulk charging.

Please don't be offended, but IMO your quest is a good example of what i consider the "herd mentality" which is "faster, faster": It's everywhere, it's everywwhere until you're past 70 yrs :wink: Even at 77 yrs i find myself sometimes getting sucked in ... it's inevitable for example i wish by e-Cargo Trike top speed was 15mph instead of 12mph. One advantage of being retired i'm no longer in a hurry :thumb:

Boy you run into assumptions about who I am really quick.

Anyway, two things...
1. Even if you charge at 20A say a 50Ah pack, when it gets to 4.10V per cell then the charger will probably taper down the charging speed shortly after crossing the 4.10V (top balance start voltage) and the whole charging cycle will be over shortly after that while the balace procedure will keep going.
The problem is that if you enable it to balance say at 8A of charging then it will not start the balance process if you charge at 20A.
I'm sure there is no benefit in burning some heat through resistors at 100mA when charging at 20A but the thing is that it will be just a short period of time before charging ends and then balancing will be taking place as opposed to disabling the option to balance at all.
This logic will work only with top balancing, and top balancing pretty close to the top like I mentioned at about 4.10V

2. Even though I semi understand the useless idea of balacing at 100mA while charging at 20A, wouldn't it be like charging all cell rows at 20A and having the balance make a few rows charge at 19.9A thus making the balacing during high current charge still effective?

 

[john61ct]

Getting the balancing done quickly is actually very important when top balancing since it is harmful to the cells to sit for any length of time at 100% however you define it.

Active balancers can be applied at 3.8Vpc, and at 5A are just fine if the charge current is 20A or 100A.

They will "shuttle" not resist, and say your charge termination is at 4.15Vpc by that time you very likely do not need to continue further.

And if you choose to balance at 3.3Vpc it takes no more time or trouble than at the top.

With a healthy pack maybe once every 50 cycles is enough.

If you need to do it more than every five cycles, maybe it's time to do some replacing.

The usual cheap non-adjustable BMS resistance method is just a stupid stupid design no one who cares about their packs should buy into

unless your replacement philosophy is to do so very very early in the pack's working lifespan.

If you like continuing to use it past 70-75% SoH - or recycle scrapped cells - then getting a good active balancer should be just as important as having a decent charger.

 

[BareKuda]

My question is, why is it bad to have balance on when charging at say 20A?
Why wouldn't it balance at any charge speed?

I cant charge at 20a but ill see if it allows me to set it below my 2a charger and see if that stops all balance or only “charge balance”.

My BMS allows me to set 0-50a in the “BalanceChargingCurrent” field. 50A max maybe because my BMS is 50a (70a peak).

To be honest I haven’t even played with it yet so I don’t know what it does but i know what i wish it did. Lol. Its only useful function to me is if it used the charge mosfets to actually LIMIT charge current to your preferred setting once the voltage reached yours selected charge balance voltage.

We know the ANT allows you to pick 2-200 ma bleed but thats useless if the charge current is too high. But it also depends on your specific battery pack.

A perfect battery pack would never need balancing. Nearly perfect would require only a tiny amount of balancing. Maybe 30 ma while topping off is enough. The more mismatched the bricks are the more opportunity you need to give the cells to balance.

Since I'm working with LiFePO4 cells, after matching the bricks as close as i can, and finding the curve of the batch of cells I choose (right now i have 4 samples and each has different voltage characteristics).

My planned algorithm is:
1. Charge at 3a (0.1C), which should reduce surge voltage and allow cells to come up together.
2. Set charge to 3.65v and release to about 3.40v.
3. Set balance voltage to 3.45
4. Set bleed current to 0.002C. Since my batter Will be about 37.5ah that means bleed of 0.075a.

Balancing at 1/500C means it should take 5 hours maximum to bleed down to 99% SOC. If done too fast it can bleed a cell that hasn’t reached its equilibrium yet. If done too slow you will use the battery and it will go below balance voltage, so progressively gets out of balance.

I think the settings under balance parameters as well as the cell ovp settings allow you to tune the balance for the battery type and application.

Ill test the specific charge balance current settings and see what it does.

EDIT:
I just tested it and if charge current goes above the value you set, it stops charge balancing but not balance limit.

So its not anything to do with heat but just another way you can tune the balance feature. Clearly this only works when you charge above and below the value set, either your daily charge tapers or you have a fast charger and a float charger.

I think the main thing is ensuring you don’t bleed surge voltage which makes the battery further unbalanced than before. My current mismatched test battery will surge and bleed the wrong cells while charging and then when the charge mosfet closes it drops quickly below the highest cell.

 

[john61ct]

LFP is best charge terminated at 3.45V for longevity, if it settles back to 3.33V that is 100% Full

but really there's little point to going that high.

0.4C or below in Bulk/CC stage is fine for longevity, no need to keep going after the CV setpoint is reached.

Balancing could start anywhere over 3.25V if the balance current is low,the goal should be, soon as you hit 3.45V you can stop charging and the cells are balanced.

If you do need to keep going then yes, a very low current rate would be ideal, no more than the actual BMS balance current.

Of course if you want your top balancing point to be 3.50V or 3.55V if your charger lets you switch profiles, maybe do that every 20 cycles or so, but personally I don't see any point going that high.

My BMS allows me to set 0-50a in the “BalanceChargingCurrent” field. 50A max maybe because my BMS is 50a (70a peak)

That is likely pure fiction, link to that model? Sure it's not 50mA??


> Set charge to 3.65v and release to about 3.40v

Sorry what does that last mean?


> I just tested it and if charge current goes above the value you set, it stops charge balancing but not balance limit.

Also please clarify your last meaning there?

 

[BareKuda]

LFP is best charge terminated at 3.45V for longevity, if it settles back to 3.33V that is 100% Full

You assume all LiFePO4 batteries have rhe same chemistry. They don’t. I have 4 batches that all settle out at differently voltages.

Also charging to 3.65v/cell doesn't hurt them. With a small load they will settle back down to the voltage they are happy at.

0.4C or below in Bulk/CC stage is fine for longevity, no need to keep going after the CV setpoint is reached.

Well CV set-point cant be reached before the BMS stops the charge in all cases, such as my test battery.

Balancing could start anywhere over 3.25V if the balance current is low,the goal should be, soon as you hit 3.45V you can stop charging and the cells are balanced.

Once again you assume you know the voltage of all LiFePO4 cells, you don't. 3.25v is solidly on the flat part of the curve and balancing here might put you further out of balance.

If you do need to keep going then yes, a very low current rate would be ideal, no more than the actual BMS balance current.

for this battery there will be one battery and one charger, which is my SLA charger with max output of 73.5v. The BMS will shut it down at the voltage/cell i tell it to, which will be tuned as needed to achieve balance each charge cycle.

Of course if you want your top balancing point to be 3.50V or 3.55V if your charger lets you switch profiles, maybe do that every 20 cycles or so, but personally I don't see any point going that high.

Recent studies show that batteries kept between 40-60% for a kong time can lose capacity and to regain it you drain to 2.0v and hold it for a day, charge to 3.65v and hold it for a day. And i can vouch that it did recover 10% capacity on cells I bought that were stored at 50% SOC for months,

My BMS allows me to set 0-50a in the “BalanceChargingCurrent” field. 50A max maybe because my BMS is 50a (70a peak)

That is likely pure fiction, link to that model? Sure it's not 50mA??

If you owned an ANT BMS you could pull your head out of your ass and see its not fiction. Seems you entered a thread you have no knowledge of the core topic “ANT BMS settings”.

If you read the original question, hes asking why it limits you to charging current of 20a while balancing. This means if you charge at a rate higher than 20a, it will disable charge balance. Do you really think there is a 50ma charger for these batteries that have a $70 BMS? Lol.

> Set charge to 3.65v and release to about 3.40v

Sorry what does that last mean?


> I just tested it and if charge current goes above the value you set, it stops charge balancing but not balance limit.

Also please clarify your last meaning there?

[/quote]
These are things any ANT BMS owner will understand. You dont own any recent ANT BMS which is why you are totally lost on the topic. When you get an ANT BMS come back and it will make more sense.

 

[BareKuda]

Am testing the new version of the ANT BMS.

Basically, if you aren't aware ANT has been amazing so far (to me at least) and then since the chip shortage their main chip went up x10 in price so they have changed it to a slower one and then have to redesign the whole app (which to begin with was problematic to many).

Now with the new app they have added many BS parameters that don't make sense but there is one in particular that is pretty useful.

Up until the new version it wouldn't balance if you charge at over 15A but now this setting can be tweaked (comes at 10A by default).

My question is, why is it bad to have balance on when charging at say 20A?
Why wouldn't it balance at any charge speed?

Heres some exaggerated examples of mismatched cells in all possible ways (capacity, IR and voltage curve) when charging.

Heres the cells at rest, cells #1-3 have the highest voltage:


Once the highest cell drops below release voltage and charge cycle resumes, the cells with high IR, even though higher capacity and lower nominal voltage characteristics, surge above the highest cells. This is shortly after my 2a charger kicked in.


So if allowed to continue it will over discharge the low cells and then later cells 1-3 will need to be bled even more.

So it really highlights why I’m buying sample cells and will order 125 cells from one vender to make a 120 cell battery. It gives me 5 to reject, and 120 to arrange 20s 6p until they stay in parallel as beat as possible. Then the rest i will tune the balance function to do its job without over balancing.

I’m buying cells for $2-$3 each that probably retail for $10 for real, new, matched cells. My battery in the picture above is 15s 1p which is why its so mismatched, i don’t have enough cells to make a 13s 2p and seems 25v is the minimum for this BMS, so 13s for LiFePO4.

Im sure even id i had 120 mismatch cells i can mkae a 6p battery that behaves much better just by group highs with lows until capacity, IR and voltage curve of each brick matched,

 

[john61ct]

Please link to the spec sheet for your four cell models.

Yes voltage vs SoC curve can vary between manufacturers, but should be slight if gkod qualit makers like CATL CALB GBS A123. Winston always did his own thing but he makes good stuff.

Also charging to 3.65v/cell doesn't hurt them. With a small load they will settle back down to the voltage they are happy at.

Well I include "drastically redjcing cycle lifespan" in my definition of "damage" even if only 2000cycles off the back end decades later.

If you don't care about that, fine you do you, but the fact is, absolutely no rational reason to, you are only getting insignificant capacity going over 3.5Vpc, single digits for sure.

If a BMS cannot be adjusted to accommodate your desired charge profile you need to get a different BMS.


Balancing could start anywhere over 3.25V if the > 3.25v is solidly on the flat part of the curve and balancing here might put you further out of balance

No. I did not say that should be your balance point. Although mid-point balancing is perfectly valid, let's not go there now.

I am saying, if top balancing, the START balancing voltage point should be low enough that the process is complete concurrent with reaching your desired charge termination voltage. Or say within 20-30min after if you have a lower quality pack, or only rarely balance charge.

> The BMS will shut it down at the voltage/cell i tell it to, which will be tuned as needed to achieve balance each charge cycle.

Really BMS should IMO not be involved in the routine charge regulation process. It should be set higher than your desired charge termination voltage as a redundant failsafe, only activated when the primary source circuitry fails.

So if charging to 3.45V, BMS HVC could be set to 3.55V.

Of course if you want your top balancing point to be 3.50V or 3.55V if your charger lets you switch profiles, maybe do that every 20 cycles or so, but personally I don't see any point going that high.

> If you owned an ANT BMS you could pull your head out of your ass and see its not fiction.

Wow, we're just having a discussion in an open forum, I am just trying to help, and not just you, no need to go aggro, nor to take anything personal!

I am talking general principles, not limited to the OP nor any specific hardware.

Are you saying ANTs are actually capable of balancing (resistance burning off) at a rate of 50A per cell? LOL


> Do you really think there is a 50ma charger for these batteries that have a $70 BMS?

Sure, lots of people use lab style PSUs or RC hobby chargers for doing maintenance procedures like balancing. In fact not having at least one adjustable charge source seems pretty odd to me for anyone serious about batteries.

 

[BareKuda]

Please link to the spec sheet for your four cell models.

Spec sheet? Lol. Funny. But here is where my cells all settle out at after solid balance at 3.65v/cell.

Yes voltage vs SoC curve can vary between manufacturers, but should be slight if gkod qualit makers like CATL CALB GBS A123. Winston always did his own thing but he makes good stuff.

Im not paying CATL prices. Im paying $2.60/cell for 32650 and got anything from 6200 mah to 3800 mah, but mostly 5300 +/-100 mah.

If you don't care about that, fine you do you, but the fact is, absolutely no rational reason to, you are only getting insignificant capacity going over 3.5Vpc, single digits for sure.

Dont worry, I’ll adjust everything so it works in my application for my needs, based on my cells characteristics.

If a BMS cannot be adjusted to accommodate your desired charge profile you need to get a different BMS.

You make a lot of assumptions for someone who has no idea why people are doing what they do. I choose the ANT 10s-24s li-ion, LiFePO4, LTO BMS so that i have options. I further went with screw type 32650 cells because i can easily reconfigure my future 20s6p to a 24s 5p, since my Votol controller can handle up to 72v.

Not many $72 all-kn BMS can let you set what you want with the app.

I am saying, if top balancing, the START balancing voltage point should be low enough that the process is complete concurrent with reaching your desired charge termination voltage. Or say within 20-30min after if you have a lower quality pack, or only rarely balance charge.

You need to buy an ANT BMS then you can join in a discussion about ANT BMS settings. There are too many variables for your blanket statements. In my test battery i have 15s1p. I also have a 13s li-ion charger that I'm charging with.

I set balance charge to 3.9v (to disable it) and set balance limit to 3.6445v/cell and just let it balance. It’s easy because the charger was only holding pack voltage.

Really BMS should IMO not be involved in the routine charge regulation process. It should be set higher than your desired charge termination voltage as a redundant failsafe, only activated when the primary source circuitry fails.

Unfortunately i work with what i have, and if i use a 54.7v chargers on a 52v pack, the BMS will be the one stopping it. Thats what i pay it to do,

So if charging to 3.45V, BMS HVC could be set to 3.55V.

Of course if you want your top balancing point to be 3.50V or 3.55V if your charger lets you switch profiles, maybe do that every 20 cycles or so, but personally I don't see any point going that high.

Are you saying ANTs are actually capable of balancing (resistance burning off) at a rate of 50A per cell? LOL

Go back to the original comment that started this thread. Because have no clue about the ANT BMS, it’s settings, or the name of each setting, you are drawing conclusions that are totally wrong.

BalanceChargeLimit is the maximum charge current you set (between 0-50a for my 50a BMS). If you set it for 20a and charge at >20a, it will disregard your charge balance settings, but not your balance limit settings.

Of course its not going to bleed 50a. Thats not what the settings is for.

Sure, lots of people use lab style PSUs or RC hobby chargers for doing maintenance procedures like balancing. In fact not having at least one adjustable charge source seems pretty odd to me for anyone serious about batteries.

Well ANT BMS is not installed on a tiny RC. This topic is about ANT bms, and about a specific setting that is in the software.

Im here on this thread because i do have an ANT BMS so i know what settings the thread is talking about.

 

[john61ct]

Again nothing I'm telling you relates to the ANT.

Many of your cells there are just showing excess "surface charge"

Let them rest isolated a few days, or remove just 0.001% of capacity with a teeny light bulb or dummy load

and you will see that they settle to 3.34 to MAYBE 3.36Vpc

But letting them sit at high SoC is doing damage (reducing lifespan)

Anyway, you do you man, just trying to help, I'm out diverted the thread enough

 

[afzal]

Recent studies show that batteries kept between 40-60% for a kong time can lose capacity and to regain it you drain to 2.0v and hold it for a day, charge to 3.65v and hold it for a day.

If you have any link to those studies handy, please share

 

[BareKuda]

Recent studies show that batteries kept between 40-60% for a kong time can lose capacity and to regain it you drain to 2.0v and hold it for a day, charge to 3.65v and hold it for a day.

If you have any link to those studies handy, please share

https://iopscience.iop.org/article...ficant capacity,cycles than with full cycles.

The basic concept is that throughout the jellyroll there are sections where ions have collected due to rarely being pushed fully in either direction. By staying in 30%-70% range all the time It tends to pile up in the overhang areas where there is no active anode material directly active from the cathode active material, so it just piles up there and becomes reluctant to go looking all over for a place to move to the other collector because its never fully charged or discharged.

The cure is to hold the voltage at the extremes and give plenty of time for the ions to travel where they need to.

I did try this with one of my 5500 mah cells that only tested at 5227 mah. I simply discharged it to 2.0v and held it there until it seemed no more ions were hiding out. Then retested and got 5291 mah. Then I let it sit at 2.0v for several hours and then charged it to 3.65v for several hours and got 5325 mah.

I just held it for a few hours at both ends and got a 2% capacity recovery. The study held them at the extreme for several days.

So if you buy cheap batteries like i do that were either made in 2017 and sitting half charged, or used in a battery that stays half charged like grid stabilizing, this might recover some capacity.

 

[BareKuda]

Again nothing I'm telling you relates to the ANT.

So you came to a thread asking about ANT BMS settings which you know nothing about, basic accused me of lying about the allowed setting range, all to “help” us? Lol

Many of your cells there are just showing excess "surface charge"

Let them rest isolated a few days, or remove just 0.001% of capacity with a teeny light bulb or dummy load

and you will see that they settle to 3.34 to MAYBE 3.36Vpc

Wrong. The surface charge was at 3.644v/cell when i too balanced them. After unplugged the charge the small drain depletes them down to their independent voltage curves. My blue cells (#1-#3) are highest voltage and stay highest voltage until about 20% SOC when their lower capacity causes them to drop below the others.

Here is the voltage after a day:

The drain on the pack allows each batch to settle at its natural voltage. Now its 0.06v difference among the group while each batch from different vendors are with 0.003v.

But letting them sit at high SoC is doing damage (reducing lifespan)

Dont care because I bought these to test before buying 125 more from the vendor with the best cells

Anyway, you do you man, just trying to help, I'm out diverted the thread enough

Yes, you came to a thread you know nothing about and went off topic divering it from why the ANT BMS has a setting that allowes you to stop charge balancing at any charge current you want, within the alowed range of the BMS, which in my case is 0a to 50a, not ma.

And just so you can leave knowing beyond a doubt that you have no idea about this topic:


50.0A.

 

[john61ct]

My point is that just because the user interface lets you input 50A

does not magically mean that the balancing (resistance-burning type) current rate can go that high.

I would be very surprised if the actual rate can be higher than one amp.

 

[rg12]

My point is that just because the user interface lets you input 50A

does not magically mean that the balancing (resistance-burning type) current rate can go that high.

I would be very surprised if the actual rate can be higher than one amp.

That setting doesn't mean balance speed, it means max charge current allowed while still enabling the balance.
As long as the charge speed is under the set value it will trigger the balance at the set balance voltage, if over it will not balance.

* These settings are super misleading, I don't blame you that you interpet "balance current" as actual balance current...ahem china ahem :lol:

Max balance speed for that BMS is 180mA (or 200mA?) but not more than that.

 

[john61ct]

Aha, chinglish strikes again.

Nitpick, best not to use "speed" for amps, current rate.

As to the original question, just rely on "start balance voltage" that particular setting does not really make sense

unless you had explicit control over the charge rate, so a "normal cycling charge session" keeps balancing disabled

while a "maintenance charging session" at a low rate of charge would enable balancing.

Also maybe "fast charge" off grid power, genset, alternator, no balancing

while a "low and slow" solar session would enable it.

Really just speculating, making up solutions to fit a silly problem IMO.

Do any other BMS manufacturers add this "feature"?

 

[rg12]

Aha, chinglish strikes again.

Nitpick, best not to use "speed" for amps, current rate.

As to the original question, just rely on "start balance voltage" that particular setting does not really make sense

unless you had explicit control over the charge rate, so a "normal cycling charge session" keeps balancing disabled

while a "maintenance charging session" at a low rate of charge would enable balancing.

Also maybe "fast charge" off grid power, genset, alternator, no balancing

while a "low and slow" solar session would enable it.

Really just speculating, making up solutions to fit a silly problem IMO.

Do any other BMS manufacturers add this "feature"?

Not that I'm aware off.
In the new version they have added so many useless settings, I think they have doubled the amount of settings with bs no one needs.
A setting for when it beeps on low voltage and then another setting for an even lower voltage alarm, like a level2 alarm while both have a release voltage to stop the alarm and they have applied that logic to half the settings so everything has a level 2 and a release level 2 setting.
They have LVC by cell and then also by total voltage, and then LVC by cell release and then of course an LVC total voltage release.
So much bs it's impossible.
Like they wanted to seem complex and high tech so they added nonsense settings.
Even for passwords they have 5 levels of passwords and one to go above everything, like 6 passwords!
Someone needs to shoot that dumb engineer who thought he was so brilliant by doing so.