Russell
1 MW
Jupiter for the big one, Saturn for the smaller.
-R
-R
Naming Convention for NC and other Hub Motors
- Thread starter justin_le
- Start date
Russell said:
Damn, that's a pretty good one! and meshes with the seemingly geographic implications of "Nine Continent" too, as well as the spacey/planetary look of their logo:
NC also sells a smaller 154mm diameter motor, so we could throw a Neptune in the mix too. And if there is ever a Tongxin-sized geared hubs then we have our mercury or pluto. It's like there's an endless number of sphere's we can use!
I really like that idea.
liveforphysics
100 TW
From looking at the 9C page, it looks like the classic well built motor we commonly use from 9C is claimed to be 250-350w... We hit those with 90-100v and 50-80amps, and they do great if you are careful not to let them overheat.
They appear to make a hubmotor with built-in rim that they rate as 1500w. It would be fun to get one of those and see if it can also handle 20 times the power that they rate it to handle. Would something like that be possible to order through you?
They appear to make a hubmotor with built-in rim that they rate as 1500w. It would be fun to get one of those and see if it can also handle 20 times the power that they rate it to handle. Would something like that be possible to order through you?
Zoot Katz
100 kW
My 9C is clearly etched with "36V 500W" as part of its serial number.liveforphysics said:
I know that has nothing to do with the windings or possibilities but is a nice safe number to put on a motor.
Many jurisdictions use "Watts" in their ebike regulations.
Just a thought.
liveforphysics
100 TW
Zoot Katz said:
I think mine is etched "36v 500w" as well. You're right, it's likely entirely for legality reasons. Same reasons I made the stickers for each 7kw motor on my bike that say "325w". Makes more sense now, I should have thought about the legality aspect.
Doctorbass
100 GW
Here is Canada, you can play with the law about ebike motors... it have a grey zone! 
The law specify that the motor must not exceed 500W..
I other words, that mean that the MOTOR must be built for 500W... or miust be rated for no more than 500W...
BUT... that law dont specify HOW MUCH POWER or HOW MANY WATT YOU CAN PUT IN THAT MOTOR !!
It's a controller and battery limitation that is not specified..
In other words, overpowering motor could be allowed.. because eventhough you put 7000Watts in that motor, it is still legal if it is built and rated for 500W...
Anyway.. wich cops can measure that!
... Here they have SPL meter for testing car sound system to ensure they are not too loud for the neiborhood.. and windows Tint level meter for ensuring dark ting ( limo style tint ) car windows are legal...
But i just can't imagine they could cary a portable bicycle dyno... :lol:
Justin, The cycle Analyst next version MUST have an emergency 500W limit control boton for us to hide the large power we use in case of injury... and our inssurances....Doc
The law specify that the motor must not exceed 500W..
I other words, that mean that the MOTOR must be built for 500W... or miust be rated for no more than 500W...
BUT... that law dont specify HOW MUCH POWER or HOW MANY WATT YOU CAN PUT IN THAT MOTOR !!
It's a controller and battery limitation that is not specified..
In other words, overpowering motor could be allowed.. because eventhough you put 7000Watts in that motor, it is still legal if it is built and rated for 500W...
Anyway.. wich cops can measure that!
... Here they have SPL meter for testing car sound system to ensure they are not too loud for the neiborhood.. and windows Tint level meter for ensuring dark ting ( limo style tint ) car windows are legal...But i just can't imagine they could cary a portable bicycle dyno... :lol:
Justin, The cycle Analyst next version MUST have an emergency 500W limit control boton for us to hide the large power we use in case of injury... and our inssurances....Doc
Zoot Katz
100 kW
Precisely my point.Doctorbass said:Here is Canada, you can play with the law about ebike motors... it have a grey zone!
The law specify that the motor must not exceed 500W..
I other words, that mean that the MOTOR must be built for 500W... or miust be rated for no more than 500W...
BUT... that law dont specify HOW MUCH POWER or HOW MANY WATT YOU CAN PUT IN THAT MOTOR !!
It's a controller and battery limitation that is not specified..
In other words, overpowering motor could be allowed.. because eventhough you put 7000Watts in that motor, it is still legal if it is built and rated for 500W...
Anyway.. wich cops can measure that!
But i just can't imagine they could cary a portable bicycle dyno... :lol:
Justin, The cycle Analyst next version MUST have an emergency 500W limit control boton for us to hide the large power we use in case of ingury... and our inssurances....Doc
A CA data terminator and "restore default setting" would have to be activated by a deceleration switch.
There's no time to hit a button while you're airborne.
EDIT:Scratch that brain-fart.
An auto erase function is a double edged sword if the saved data supports your claim in a court.
floatingdog
100 W
As a newbie here, I have to go along with Russell, focus on the RPM/V (RV). E.g., 9CnnnRV or just 9Cnnn. As a first time builder, I first wanted to know which motor could give me a given speed for a particular battery voltage. I think speed is what most look at first when picking a motor.
I know torque and watt handling are very important, but are too complicated to put into the name along with RPM/V in IMHO. For me, digging into the specs and reading ES were the best way to learn about torque and watt handling respectively. Non ES types will probably be guided by seller's product descriptions rather than technical nitty gritty.
Manufactures seem to pick the watts rating based on legal posturing rather than fact. As a newbie, ES word of mouth quickly taught me which motors were prone to burning up or melting gears if pushed too hard with overvolting or amps. E.g., little Bafang, good motor, but take it easy; 9C, BMC, 53xx, push them hard.
If RPM/V is universally spec'd, wheel diameter * RPM = MPH tables would become common and ES readers would quickly be able to pick motors with a given target speed. Specs and ES would then need to be consulted for torque and practical voltage/amp limits.
I know torque and watt handling are very important, but are too complicated to put into the name along with RPM/V in IMHO. For me, digging into the specs and reading ES were the best way to learn about torque and watt handling respectively. Non ES types will probably be guided by seller's product descriptions rather than technical nitty gritty.
Manufactures seem to pick the watts rating based on legal posturing rather than fact. As a newbie, ES word of mouth quickly taught me which motors were prone to burning up or melting gears if pushed too hard with overvolting or amps. E.g., little Bafang, good motor, but take it easy; 9C, BMC, 53xx, push them hard.
If RPM/V is universally spec'd, wheel diameter * RPM = MPH tables would become common and ES readers would quickly be able to pick motors with a given target speed. Specs and ES would then need to be consulted for torque and practical voltage/amp limits.
johnrobholmes
10 MW
I still want to see the motor specs. Maybe just use those for part numbers and not the motor name? 9c-203-27-9.8
liveforphysics
100 TW
Zoot Katz said:
I auto racing, we very often tweak gages to best suit our needs. For example, if you're cheating with a hidden nitrous setup, tweak your tach to read 2,000rpm higher than reality, and make lots of in-car racing vids on youtube. Watch your opponents turn there engines into scrap metal trying to match you, while suspecting the performance advantage comes from the additional RPM.
I have a digital PLC for nitrous bottle heater pressure control. I scaled the display values so when it reads 14.2v, it means I reached the proper set point pressure of 1150psi in the bottles.
For a CA, calibrate the shunt value to be 10x higher than reality, so 10amps reads as 1amp, 1000w reads as 100w, etc. Same for speed if you like, run a half multiplier. Plugging along at 40mph pumping 2000w when you wreck? Your data would show 20mph and 200w.
dogman dan
1 PW
Alls fair in love, war, and racing. 
Back to the names, I like that Jupiter - Saturn idea because the name needs to be descriptive, in this case large vs small. Of course a few idiots won't know that Jupiter is big and saturn big, but smaller than jupiter. Continents come to mind, Asia for the big one, and maybe Europe for the smaller one.
For god's sake don't call anything small. The mercury astronauts needed different sizes for thier piss tubes while in orbit. Of course nobody could hack being small! So they had to call the sizes large, extra large, and huge. The dinks could stand it if they used a large.
Since 9c is a torquey motor anyway maybe you could call them high tourqe and extra high tourqe.( I'm assuming the bigger rotor one will have more) Or just describe the rotor size, as large and extra large. This would avoid trying to sell anything "small"
Or you could name em after ES atavars. The really fast and high powered one would of course be the Doctor Bass. The extreme toruqe one named for whoever has the highest tourqe set up, such as Drunkskunks 20" bmx bike. The lowest powered lamest model the Dogman. Just joking here, nobody but us would know what the heck the names mean.
Put only the number you need after the name, to differentiate. It could be the kv, or winding count, or even just an arbitrary number if you think it would sell better that way. Just something to tell each type of motor within the same class of magnet width and rotor diameter apart. Once you can tell em apart easy, then you look to a data chart for the rest of the specs.
Back to the names, I like that Jupiter - Saturn idea because the name needs to be descriptive, in this case large vs small. Of course a few idiots won't know that Jupiter is big and saturn big, but smaller than jupiter. Continents come to mind, Asia for the big one, and maybe Europe for the smaller one.
For god's sake don't call anything small. The mercury astronauts needed different sizes for thier piss tubes while in orbit. Of course nobody could hack being small! So they had to call the sizes large, extra large, and huge. The dinks could stand it if they used a large.
Since 9c is a torquey motor anyway maybe you could call them high tourqe and extra high tourqe.( I'm assuming the bigger rotor one will have more) Or just describe the rotor size, as large and extra large. This would avoid trying to sell anything "small"
Or you could name em after ES atavars. The really fast and high powered one would of course be the Doctor Bass. The extreme toruqe one named for whoever has the highest tourqe set up, such as Drunkskunks 20" bmx bike. The lowest powered lamest model the Dogman. Just joking here, nobody but us would know what the heck the names mean.
Put only the number you need after the name, to differentiate. It could be the kv, or winding count, or even just an arbitrary number if you think it would sell better that way. Just something to tell each type of motor within the same class of magnet width and rotor diameter apart. Once you can tell em apart easy, then you look to a data chart for the rest of the specs.
GGoodrum
1 MW
I kinda like the planet idea as well, although isn't Pluto now just classified as a big rock? I also still really like the idea of kVx10 being the only numeric modifier/suffix.
I have 4-series and 5-series Clytes, and a few NCs, so I can look at them and tell roughly how they rank, power-wise. I've never seen a Golden Motor, however, so I don't have any idea where it would "fit". Your mention that the "Magic Pie" (what a truly horrible name, BTW... ) has a diameter of 237mm, vs 205mm for the NCs gives me a clue that it probably has more torque, etc., but without the stator width, I don't know how it might compare to a 53xx. For that matter, what are the dimensions for the x5s?
Anyway, I agree that if we only have one number in the name, it should be kV. Maybe we could at least have a sticky thread here that lists all the relevant specs for these various motors?
-- Gary
I have 4-series and 5-series Clytes, and a few NCs, so I can look at them and tell roughly how they rank, power-wise. I've never seen a Golden Motor, however, so I don't have any idea where it would "fit". Your mention that the "Magic Pie" (what a truly horrible name, BTW...
) has a diameter of 237mm, vs 205mm for the NCs gives me a clue that it probably has more torque, etc., but without the stator width, I don't know how it might compare to a 53xx. For that matter, what are the dimensions for the x5s?Anyway, I agree that if we only have one number in the name, it should be kV. Maybe we could at least have a sticky thread here that lists all the relevant specs for these various motors?
-- Gary
I vote for adding the kV to the name, thats what I most want to know when looking at various motors. Plus a link to an engineering write-up where you can find the magnet strength, magnet size, pole count, wire diameter and # of turns, Ohms resistance, etc...it would be nuts to include a bunch of that info in the names. Customer eyes would glaze over...
As far as other naming conventions go? Name the various motors after women, because...
We may not NEED one, but we WANT one. You can find them in various sizes and colors, and some are more expensive than others. The first month you have one, you smile a LOT. They don't always perform as they were advertised when we were shopping. Once we get one, we end up spending MORE money on them than we planned on. After the committing to it, we often find an unexpected problem. Some are noisy, but can work hard (Cyclone/Elation) Some are big, fairly quiet, and don't get very hot (Crystalyte 530X),...anything I missed?
As far as other naming conventions go? Name the various motors after women, because...
We may not NEED one, but we WANT one. You can find them in various sizes and colors, and some are more expensive than others. The first month you have one, you smile a LOT. They don't always perform as they were advertised when we were shopping. Once we get one, we end up spending MORE money on them than we planned on. After the committing to it, we often find an unexpected problem. Some are noisy, but can work hard (Cyclone/Elation) Some are big, fairly quiet, and don't get very hot (Crystalyte 530X),...anything I missed?
grindz145
1 MW
planets....and kV...
dogman dan
1 PW
Heyyyyy, don't mess with Pluto. I grew up living next door to Clyde Tombaugh, who discovered Pluto. It's a planet here still for sure. Astronomy 101 with that dude was awesome. We'd go by his backyard observatory when we were kids and he'd spend hours showing us stuff.
GGoodrum
1 MW
It figures, I guess, that "dogman" would be a Pluto fan...
dogman dan
1 PW
Resemble Goofy more, actually. But yeah, the disney pluto is a bloodhoud for those that don't know. All of us in Las Cruces thought it sucked that they took pluto off the list of planets. The only living discoverer of a planet lived here and taught at NMSU for about 40 years. Now we just have to settle for the best green chile in the world till the first commercial spaceport on earth opens next year.
grindz145
1 MW
On top of kV the other rating I would like to see is some kind of current rating. I know this is kind of hard to quantify considering that there is a time-based derating curve but that would make alot of sense if the stndard was kV and then some kind of standard current rating.
-Troy
-Troy
Mark_A_W
100 kW
CTJ said:
My one.
Goes good at 60v and 30amps.
https://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1533
I don't know why Justin doesn't carry it, it has lots of torque for it's size (will spin front wheel in the wet...bit scary). The bigger 9C motors are too big and heavy for front wheel drive.
It's well made and has oil seals on the axle. Mine has done over 12,000k's with no problems (but I broke 2 rims). Hell, everything else on the bike has broken (including 2 frames) but not the motor.
I'm building my new bike with a rear geared hub, but my front 9C is a very good motor.
Hyena
10 GW
I guess the star trek geeks on the board missed this one :lol:Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh said:
I just dug up this thread while trying clarify the winding and naming convention so a better system is certainly a good idea.
It's been 6 months now, what naming system did you end up going with Justin ?
I like the planet naming idea.
You could have a little "200w" one for Australia and call it the moon
Then when the cops pull us over doing 50km/hr and we say it's moon motor they'll say "that's no moon!"
star wars and star trek jokes in the same post. PAH!
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