Need battery comparison help

[E-HP]

I wondered that too. The way I understand it is, instead of each cell group charging to full capacity, the entire battery pack is charge to full capacity. Without balance wires, some cell groups may not get full charge. Leaving the other groups to become overcharged. The BMS won’t be able to regulate voltage to the individual cell groups of the pack. The BMS would still prevent over and under voltage, but it would only measure the entire battery pack, not the individual cell groups.

Please correct me, if I’m wrong.

I'm sure there are some experts that can confirm, but my understanding is that the other difference between a BMS with or without balancing is the additional chips and resistors needed to perform the balancing function (e.g. FETs for active balancing and resistors for non-active), but sense wires are used and the serial group level to stop charging. I'm using that assumption with respect to my pack, that likely doesn't have a balancing BMS, but charges fine to full capacity on the rare occasion that I fully charge the pack.

 

[tomjasz]

their 52v batteries are more than 100 bucks more expensive than UPP. I dont get it.

Down Tube Polly Shark Battery 36v 48v 52v Lithium Battery For Electric Bike - Buy 48v Lithium Ion Battery,Electric Bike Battery 48v 20ah,36v 12ah Lithium Battery Product on Alibaba.com

Down Tube Polly Shark Battery 36v 48v 52v Lithium Battery For Electric Bike - Buy 48v Lithium Ion Battery,Electric Bike Battery 48v 20ah,36v 12ah Lithium Battery Product on Alibaba.com

www.alibaba.com

You don't know that except to look at an internet price. Email and ask for what you want and a price. That's the only way to have an accurate comparison.

I have UPP packs built to my specifications and they delivered the grade-A batteries I paid for.

I sold 100's of batteries from 4 different vendors. UPP doesn't lie. but they're not particularly forthcoming.

Please correct me, if I’m wrong.

Building a very good battery won't be cheaper than a good factory build There are lots of pitfalls and a lot of expenses. Some like the labor and the least expensive solution. ME? I want to ride with a safe reliable and well-made battery. STOP comparing just pricing. Consider the cells, BMS features, solder, welding, and more associated pieces and parts.

Been there done that. Me? I'll part worth $500 hard-earned dollars for a reliable battery I can hammer for a few years with that great motor you chose.

 

[Eastwood]

BTW, They ARE both from the UPP official store

+8619129984285
That’s sunnys WhatsApp number from UPP. You can also order directly from the website, but if you have questions she can help you.

 

[docw009]

$441 for the battery using 18650 cells? The ad says 3500 mah Samsung, so it uses a 14S-4P, which is 56 cells, 4 cells per parallel group. WIth a 30A BMS, each cell has to support 7-8A,

$349 for the battery using 21700 cells. They're telling you it's 14S-3P Samsung 50E's, which means 3 cells per parallel group. It's a 40A BMS, That means 13A per cell. That might be too high for a 50E, which according to datasheets I see is rated for 10A,.

Pricing for cells can be strange. You would think 21700's, being larger would cost proportionally more, but the prices (retail) seem to be about the same, That would explain the 18650 costing more.

I'm hard pressed to say which I like. I'd be happy with either if I were using a 20A controller, in which case, I;d look at the 21700. If I really had a 40A controller, I wouldn't use either. I'd want a 20AH 21700 or 18650.

 

[gobi]

1st ebike build, BBSHD on the way. I was trying to figure out why one of these batteries is almost 100 bucks more. Comparing the
52V15Ah 40A Samsung

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804588637123.html

To the
52V14Ah Samsung

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805050042888.html

It appears the cheaper one uses 21700 BATs, but I was told 21700's are actually more expensive. So why is this one almost 100 bucks cheaper? thanks.

OP,
if you are going to buy from Aliexpress/alibaba
please remember, both stores have 1 honest seller and 40 thieves.

pick a manufacturer or major store like this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1100552573

I bought many items from them, including LFE 100ah cells to make a 12v batt for my boats trolling motor. I can give them 3 stars.

Pick a ebike batts that has 21700s

AVOID, I repeat avoid, new/small sellers.

As others have mentioned, good batt builders/sellers details exactly how a batt is made and what cells are inside it.

Once you buy one and get a batt, I would open it up CAREFULLY and inspect and confirm the cells and construction.
Buy shrinkwrap to rewrap it and/or tape it up and seal it.

Lastly, pay with a CC.

 

[RoninX]

It's cheaper to assemble a battery without wiring all the balance leads. Less labor. If you like stupid shit, like a BMS with cell balancing, then you will have to pay more for that. Truth is that some vendors will lie about their cells. Example

You missed my point, Slappy Slapnuts. You shouldnt have to request something that should be done by default. and if you were fooled by that stoopid AD, you deserve to be.

 

[RoninX]

I've purchased two UPP hard cased triangle packs. 20Ah 30A and 28Ah 40A. The first pack had generic cells but it never lost capacity that I could detect during the year and a half I used it, it had decent performance but had a decent amount of voltage sag under load. It's now used for power backup. I replaced it to get higher dispatch current with less sag.

I ordered the specific cells (Samsung) from an ebay ad that had a few options to choose from for cells and the BMS. After ordering, I got a call from China the following day, confirming the cells and BMS, asking about the system it was intended for to make sure the battery and bms were adequate. I've been using the Samsung pack for 1 1/2 years now and it still performs great after a few hundred light charge cycles. Although I don't fully charge and discharge less than half the pack before charging, I don't baby it when riding. I've been using the Samsung pack for 1 1/2 years now and it still performs great after a few hundred light charge cycles. At some point I'll open up the pack to check out the construction, but haven't felt the need to since it's been performing well without issues.

Well that's good to know.. Unless you're a UPP shill.

 

[RoninX]

$441 for the battery using 18650 cells? The ad says 3500 mah Samsung, so it uses a 14S-4P, which is 56 cells, 4 cells per parallel group. WIth a 30A BMS, each cell has to support 7-8A,

$349 for the battery using 21700 cells. They're telling you it's 14S-3P Samsung 50E's, which means 3 cells per parallel group. It's a 40A BMS, That means 13A per cell. That might be too high for a 50E, which according to datasheets I see is rated for 10A,.

Pricing for cells can be strange. You would think 21700's, being larger would cost proportionally more, but the prices (retail) seem to be about the same, That would explain the 18650 costing more.

I'm hard pressed to say which I like. I'd be happy with either if I were using a 20A controller, in which case, I;d look at the 21700. If I really had a 40A controller, I wouldn't use either. I'd want a 20AH 21700 or 18650.

Why would they do that if the bats are rated for 10 amps? well I guess i'll get the 21700's then. And I dont care if I burn out the bbshd controller.. it's getting replaced with a bac850 in the future anyway.

 

[RoninX]

OP,
if you are going to buy from Aliexpress/alibaba
please remember, both stores have 1 honest seller and 40 thieves.

pick a manufacturer or major store like this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1100552573

I bought many items from them, including LFE 100ah cells to make a 12v batt for my boats trolling motor. I can give them 3 stars.

Pick a ebike batts that has 21700s

AVOID, I repeat avoid, new/small sellers.

As others have mentioned, good batt builders/sellers details exactly how a batt is made and what cells are inside it.

Once you buy one and get a batt, I would open it up CAREFULLY and inspect and confirm the cells and construction.
Buy shrinkwrap to rewrap it and/or tape it up and seal it.

Lastly, pay with a CC.

UPP is not a small seller. You can give 5 stars on a purchase, not 3. I shouldnt have to open up a fukin battery. DO NOT EVER pay with a credit card. WTF kind of backwards advice is that? Use paypal or privacy.com. I never heard of that company in all my research.. nice try, Chinese guy.

 

[RoninX]

You don't know that except to look at an internet price. Email and ask for what you want and a price. That's the only way to have an accurate comparison.

I have UPP packs built to my specifications and they delivered the grade-A batteries I paid for.

I sold 100's of batteries from 4 different vendors. UPP doesn't lie. but they're not particularly forthcoming.


Building a very good battery won't be cheaper than a good factory build There are lots of pitfalls and a lot of expenses. Some like the labor and the least expensive solution. ME? I want to ride with a safe reliable and well-made battery. STOP comparing just pricing. Consider the cells, BMS features, solder, welding, and more associated pieces and parts.

Been there done that. Me? I'll part worth $500 hard-earnedView attachment 331768View attachment 331769 dollars for a reliable battery I can hammer for a few years with that great motor you chose.

I know all of that from the bare bones neccesarry research I have done to build an E-Bike. But I have no desire or intention of goin any further than that right now, nor should I have to. I'm certainly have zero desire in emailing some chinese slave wagie hoping he doesnt lie, nor do I feel like becoming a fukin battery scientist just to enjoy some speed during the summer of 2023.

 

[E-HP]

Well that's good to know.. Unless you're a UPP shill.

Just get this pack and stop with the nickel and diming.

Luna Wolf V2 52v Battery Pack

Distributors and builders of life changing electric bikes.

lunacycle.com

 

[RoninX]

You don't know that except to look at an internet price. Email and ask for what you want and a price. That's the only way to have an accurate comparison.

I have UPP packs built to my specifications and they delivered the grade-A batteries I paid for.

I sold 100's of batteries from 4 different vendors. UPP doesn't lie. but they're not particularly forthcoming.


Building a very good battery won't be cheaper than a good factory build There are lots of pitfalls and a lot of expenses. Some like the labor and the least expensive solution. ME? I want to ride with a safe reliable and well-made battery. STOP comparing just pricing. Consider the cells, BMS features, solder, welding, and more associated pieces and parts.

Been there done that. Me? I'll part worth $500 hard-earnedView attachment 331768View attachment 331769 dollars for a reliable battery I can hammer for a few years with that great motor you chose.

Can you sell me a solid 52v battery from 10-13mah for under 400?

 

[RoninX]

Just get this pack and stop with the nickel and diming.

Luna Wolf V2 52v Battery Pack

Distributors and builders of life changing electric bikes.

lunacycle.com

100$ difference is "nickel and diming"? LOL, ok, Luna dweeb. Luna is a bunch of "I'm a radical, e-biker, dude!" clowns who over hype shit and smear their logo feces on everything while over charging you to forcefully advertise for them. hard pass. Keep thinking your cool, and don't forget to wash the Cheetos grease of your Luna t-shirt so it looks good in public.

 

[E-HP]

100$ difference is "nickel and diming"? LOL, ok, Luna dweeb. Luna is a bunch of "I'm a radical, e-biker, dude!" clowns who over hype shit and smear their logo feces on everything while over charging you to forcefully advertise for them. hard pass. Keep thinking your cool, and don't forget to wash the Cheetos grease of your Luna t-shirt so it looks good in public.

It's all coming out now, isn't it?

 

[RoninX]

+8619129984285
That’s sunnys WhatsApp number from UPP. You can also order directly from the website, but if you have questions she can help you.

Thanks, but I'll pass on asking Sum Dum Chick who is trying to make a sale. I'll stick to honest customers on forums.

 

[RoninX]

It's all coming out now, isn't it?

Yea, you got EXPOSED.

 

[E-HP]

Yea, you got EXPOSED.

I'm sure you know your symptoms can be treated successfully.

 

[slaphappygamer]

You missed my point, Slappy Slapnuts. You shouldnt have to request something that should be done by default. and if you were fooled by that stoopid AD, you deserve to be.

Name calling is a child’s game. Good luck on your project.

 

[tomjasz]

Can you sell me a solid 52v battery from 10-13mah for under 400?

Ha! Good luck. Not to be rude but you get what you pay for.

 

[tomjasz]

Plonk

 

[gobi]

UPP is not a small seller. You can give 5 stars on a purchase, not 3. I shouldnt have to open up a fukin battery. DO NOT EVER pay with a credit card. WTF kind of backwards advice is that? Use paypal or privacy.com. I never heard of that company in all my research.. nice try, Chinese guy.

UPP = I have no experience
I don't trust anyone when it comes to batts, I open them up, you do what you want.
My amex has ALWAYS taken are of me, you won't find me getting on my knees for paypal.

More name calling, wow, come one guys, please keep it civil, we are all sharing our experience, it is worth what you paid for it.

This thread needs some Mod love.