new eZip motor

[latecurtis]

Rc motors spin to fast and need reduction or you go really low kv motor https://alienpowersystem.com/shop/ or find a low kv motor to suit your battery and speed with hobbyking sk8 or go even more backwards with a friction drive. By 3 motors you mean 2 on the bike and one on the trailer?

I thought about friction drive but is like the least efficient.

Chain will work better for a push trailer as really short chain can be used. For the bike though I got a much better idea.

I like the belt drive way better. A universal kit to convert any chain drive motor brush or brushless to belt drive. The wheel pully could bolt to the rotor of a disk brake and run a regular brake for the wheel / wheels.

I noticed with a chain drive when starting out with the throttle a clunking sound when it kicks in. I heard that belt drive is way smoother acceleration. Also no lubrication required and if the wheel and motor pulley are designed right the belt can not possibly come off like a chain will.

That is my #1 goal for future and current builds. I wish more ES members were interested. I can not afford a 3D printer large enough to make the wheel pullies but motor pullies should be easy.

If we could get enough ES members interested and say 5 or 6 members invest it could be possible to have everything 3D printed and put in a kit which could be ordered for < $100. All it would be is three pieces. The wheel pully. The motor pully and a belt. Of course different size wheel pullies will be required for different gear reduction ratios but should not be rocket science. It should be very straight forward.

Also hub motors are very high price right now. You can not get a decent 1,000 direct drive < $200. Looking at $220 for a sketchy cheap kit and might get free shipping if you are lucky. Brush motors are like $60 to $80 and brushless about $120 to $150 for 2 to 3 kilowatts. A 3 Kilowatt hub motor is like $400 to $500.

For low speed power applications < 750W and 20 mph you could take an 18" wheel and remove the spokes and bolt it to the spokes of any rear or front wheel for the pulley. However just like spoke mounted chain sprockets it will warp the wheel in 100 to 200 miles and will need to true the wheel.

For 1,000W and up better off with a pulley wheel that will bolt to a disk rotor. NOT a freewheel unless you do not want pedal. A stock Currie wheel is $120 + shipping. It has a freewheel on each side with the motor side left hand thread so they work together. It is NOT a flip flop hub. It is called a dual drive hub. A disk brake wheel is less than 1/2 the price of a dual drive hub.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[calab]

All you need is 70mm spokes https://ebikes.ca/tools/spoke-calc.html?hub=B_BPM&pair=false&rim=16CL if you lace the bafang hub motor to a 16 inch iso 305 rim which is just a kids bicycle which you can find for free. This is what I might do with my razor e200 stand up kids scooter with a bit of welding the other option is to mount the hub motor unlaced to a rim and just have a chain power the stock razor 8" wheel. I would much rather have readily available bicycle parts 16" iso 305 rim and tire that I can get at any bicycle store then a specialized 8" tube and tire I need to order online pay extra money for shipping and wait for, the same would go for your belt which no one really does and you cant print sprockets from cheap 3d printers but you can use readily available bicycle gears or mid drive gears, go kart grade parts or industrial parts that would not flex under stress because they are made out of heavy steel rather then flexible aluminum bicycle gears. Once your on slippery ground that pusher trailer will become useless more then front hub riding to use up your non hub motors your design will work most of the year place batteries over the trailers wheel to help tread bite and propel you and you can tell everyone you planned your heavy batteries for that

 

[latecurtis]

yea.

heavy duty spokes could work.

I was just looking at the belt drive kits that are actually out there.



Complete garbage. It defeats one of the main the purposes of belt drives. If alignment is not perfect the belt will just slip off.

Notice the difference in that and this.



The motor pully has to be like that as well. That is a true pully wheel. what is in that cheap kit is NOT a pulley wheel.

I am working on my LTOs right now but would love to share more ideas and will read your post again later. Tomorrow I will post again.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[kuz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLbWHTiLrZs&t=4s

And that is the video I was looking for.

That is not for cargo. He has some type of clutch or something going on.[/quote]

Indeed, this is not what I though you wanted. His trailer is not articulated AT ALL. Look closer at the start of the video - it is a small pusher with fixed trailer mounts rigged as chain stay extensions. These "extensions" are spring (pre-) loaded so they push against the road when the bike is stationary. When powered, the pusher lifts the bike's rear heel up a bit thus loading pushers wheel but not by much so you can see in the video that he is struggling to keep the trailer wheelie from spinning up. That design will go through a tire in one trip. No problem turning though.

I thought you were thinking of a really heavy trailer (possibly even with SLAs) naturally pressing trailer wheel into the road so you would have little problem with the trailer wheel grip - for propulsion that is. The trailer will need to be pivoting up/down relatively freely. Steering would be more problematic causing - as Chalo said - either bike or trailer wheel slipping. That'll put an extra wear on the tire but if it is used only for occasional heavy hauling it's not such a big deal. More tweaking is needed to make a daily rider out of this. I don't think I saw anyone trying to make such a design work but admittedly I haven't looked far.

Here is a crazy idea. If your trailer (vertical) pivot point is the bike's rear axle then hypothetically the chain from the trailer-mounted motor could go to a drive sprocket mounted on the bike's wheel. Pivoting - no matter how large - will not change the tension of the chain. At the attached sketch of a BMW drive shows, the drive sprocket (in red outline) would be on your trailer, and the wheel on the right would be the the bike. "Chainstay" of that beemer pivots exactly at the drive sprocket so it has no chain tension issues. The "push" action of the trailer is now replaced by the "pull" of the bike. The trailer still carries the weight of the batteries and the motor. Traction will be an issue for heavy cargo hauling, oh no... May as well have the motor installed on the bike's rear wheel which had been done before, nothing to see here... Never mind, just thinking aloud, back to the drawing board...

 

[Chalo]

Complete garbage. It defeats one of the main the purposes of belt drives. If alignment is not perfect the belt will just slip off.

V-belt drives that aren't correctly aligned break belts. Their purpose isn't to tolerate misalignment.

Your impressions about these things don't agree with the common practices of people who know what they're doing. Think about why that is.

 

[calab]

Not much research done in 6 years https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=62231&p=1095872&hilit=belt#p1095872

 

[latecurtis]

V-belt drives that aren't correctly aligned break belts. Their purpose isn't to tolerate misalignment.

Your impressions about these things don't agree with the common practices of people who know what they're doing. Think about why that is.

Complete garbage. It defeats one of the main the purposes of belt drives. If alignment is not perfect the belt will just slip off.

Actually I formed that opinion after reading some reviews on that product. It got bad reviews for that reason. It is why I did not order it.

Customer Reviews
Very bad design
By Jerry L. White on March 6, 2021
The engine sprocket would not fit the engine shaft and the belt will not stay on the pulley. It should be recessed with side keepers.… see more

I thought you were thinking of a really heavy trailer (possibly even with SLAs) naturally pressing trailer wheel into the road so you would have little problem with the trailer wheel grip - for propulsion that is.

Well a heavy duty trailer was an after thought. That video was my original idea way back when I was thinking about ordering that. My main purpose was gear reduction. That motor is 3,200 watts and 5,800 rpm. capable of close to 50 mph.

The only reason for a heavy duty cargo push trailer would be to go 100 miles without stopping to charge. Not really practical though as don't need that much range. May as well just take a car or my van. The more weight hauling extra batteries the less efficiency and more batteries required to make the trip. Factor in steep hills and 100 pounds of batteries becomes a huge liability.

I would be much better off for long trips with the Giant Roam and 40 pounds of LIFEPO4 plus pedal assist for long trips. 30 minutes or less to charge from 25% to 97%. Dual 500W hub motors and pedal for steep hills.



Since then I changed my mind as I ordered a 3,000W 60V brushless motor rated at 4,800 rpm. I can order a custom 90T sprocket and gearing will be around 45 mph.

Right now I am close to finishing the 20S - LTOs. The thing is I can NOT afford to make a mistake. I paid $600+ for the LTOs and may last me the rest of my life for all my 48V needs. I just hope they are good for 20 miles on a full charge. It will require something on wheels that folds up and straps to my rear rack to easily bring them inside a restaurant or Library to charge. A real hassle basically.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvl0iLbrWxg&t=5s

Once I get the stickers on the other 10S pack I will be ready for the series connections. I am doing it that way as I can not afford a mistake. It has to be right. I can hardly wait to run 20S - LTO. The first run wil be the 20" bike with the 1,800W brushless motor. Then I will put a chain drive on the front of the 26" dual suspension and run 20S - LTO to that and the rear 26" direct drive. If I ever do manage to convert chain to belt that will be my first conversion. For now though will have to live with cheap #25 chain.

I doubt I will run the SLAs in parallel with the 12S - LIFE as 60 pounds will make the Currie too top heavy and dangerous. The LTOs are < 45 pounds which is the most I want to run. If I get the 12S prismatic cells that will weigh about 20 pounds + 20 pounds of my current 12S - LIFE so 40 pounds roughly. The main reason for ordering the prismatic cells is for > 20 miles of range. Less SAG is reason #2.

Basically before I take on any new projects like belt drives or push trailers I need 36V worth of batteries for > 20 miles on a charge as well as 48V for > 20 miles. It is why I am hoping the 18 Ah - LTOs will have a lot greater range than the 19 Ah - 12S LIFE I have now. If not then the LTOs will be < 10 miles like my current 12S - LIFE is and will need to order even more prismatic cells.

Another project that must happen before belt drives and push trailers is a solar charging station in my van. the main purpose of the EV revolution is reducing the carbon footprint. Now imagine two to three trips up two or three flights of stairs hauling batteries and wires to go somewhere. Then hooking everything up. Or just one trip down the stairs. It is why I do not ride as much any more. I can just take the van and be half way there by the time my e bike is hooked up and ready.

I need e bikes with fully charged batteries on board in the van. Then I can just roll it out. Hop on it and take off. It is why I wont be giving up on a decent solar charging kit for my van. I may or may not be moving any time soon. I might have to settle with a second floor apartment. Second floor is the perfect compromise though as less stairs than third and also safer than the first floor as not as easy to break in. Unless it comes with a garage though I will need the van and the solar kit.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[DrkAngel]

I doubt I will run the SLAs in parallel with the 12S - LIFE as 60 pounds will make the Currie too top heavy and dangerous. The LTOs are < 45 pounds which is the most I want to run. If I get the 12S prismatic cells that will weigh about 20 pounds + 20 pounds of my current 12S - LIFE so 40 pounds roughly. The main reason for ordering the prismatic cells is for > 20 miles of range. Less SAG is reason #2.

Basically before I take on any new projects like belt drives or push trailers I need 36V worth of batteries for > 20 miles on a charge as well as 48V for > 20 miles. It is why I am hoping the 18 Ah - LTOs will have a lot greater range than the 19 Ah - 12S LIFE I have now. If not then the LTOs will be < 10 miles like my current 12S - LIFE is and will need to order even more prismatic cells.

Damn! ...
... I get near 30 mile range cruising at ~17mph on a 250w (enforced economy) geared hub motor, with a 36V 14Ah MJ1 battery* (~5lb).

* 10s4p MJ1 bricks, w\balance board, cost < $70 each, including tax and shipping!
MJ1 battery tested, rated and chosen as safe, durable and reliable for current and upcoming NASA missions!

 

[DAND214]

LC, what are you after, Speed or range? You won't get both the way you are going.

As I told you before, I get 2+ miles per AH. Like DA I keep the speed down under 20mph and pedal. You should see at least that. If not Motor/gearing is wrong. Wrong motor is first guess and the gearing is wrong. You talk 90mph TF? 30 mph is fast enough on a bike.

You should be looking into the setup DA is using. Cheap and simple. That would give you more time to drink your Beer!
You are putting way too much time in the battery builds. put more effort in finding a reasonable speed setup with reliability.
You want to ride than do it. Snow did slow me down, but I did get lots of rides with it. No worry down here for snow, just the heat.

Where did DA find that deal?

Dan

 

[kuz]

Edit: didn't see Dan's post in time. Left mine unchanged.

LC, it's hard to discern the end goal at first glance. Here is what I understand:

1. Build up two of battery packs, one 36V, the other 48v(for speed?) Each set good for 20+ miles and is individually portable for off-bike charging. Both MUST be brought to practical operational status in one and the only try.
2. To eliminate frequent hauling of the two above batteries up the stairs for charging, set up solar charging station on/at the van so they are charged up and ready to go when needed (first thing in the morning???)
3. Build an ebike (or maybe a push trailer if the combined heft of the batteries exceeds standalone ebike's weight carrying capacity.) Belt drive is strongly preferred but chain will have to do initially. Chain (or probably belt) drive with the already purchased single high RPM BLDC motor (not negotiable) installed on the front SUSPENSION (3kW motor??) fork. Another DD (hub?) motor in the back. The rig to be powered by the two battery packs built earlier.

The final setup will be able to travel 40+ miles from a single charge, some pedaling uphill, speed 40-ish mph or less, while carrying the rider and an unspecified amount of cargo.

Did I get the goals and the order right?

 

[latecurtis]

Did I get the goals and the order right?

Yes. That about covers it.

I currently have 36V and 48V for < 10 miles on a charge with my current set up. As many miles as I want if I re charge every 10 miles or so. I can run 12S - LIFEPO4 or 15S - LIFEPO4 and have a 10 amp 12S charger and a 15 amp 15S charger. I can go anywhere I want now if I portable charge.

I also Have two very reliable e bikes. The 26" Diamondback Outlook with dual Bafang motors and a 20" direct drive hub. BMX bike.
I can also build the Giant Roam which has the two 500W geared e bike ling motors which has all 21 pedal gears.

Basically I could just run / build those and just go buy a 4 cylinder car for > 10 miles. The thing though is that is not me. E bikes are my hobby. It is about all I do. It is my life. I like to build and experiment. I don't HAVE to. I CHOOSE to.

The 20" bike with the 1,800W brushless motor chain drive is like a big toy. It is fun. The Currie was my first e bike and just fun to experiment with. Also it rides very smooth and comfortable so a great e bike for > 10 miles. It is why I will order the Prismatic cells.

The 26" dual suspension is also very smooth riding and like a great back up bike for the Currie. However I want to run both motors at 48V so the front Bafang needs to go for a chain drive / future belt drive. The Currie will stay at 36V and the Dual suspension 48V.

For > 40 mph that is where the vintage Haro V3 with the 3 kilowatt brushless chain drive will come into play.

The other future projects are the 700c Giant Cypress hybrid. I am looking at a geared MAC and at least 2 kilowatts for a second 40 mph e bike. The 20" Blue ( my favorite color) Diamondback Viper will sport a DD 1,500W hub in the rear and chrome chopper forks in the front. I really like the performance of the 20" Turbo with the 800W DD on the back so will love a 1,500W in the rear of the 20" Viper.

I am only 5 foot 8 inches so a 20" bike rides just fine as long as the seat goes up a few inches higher than normal. Like I said I could just stop and buy a 4 cylinder car. I probably will buy a 4 banger for rain and shit weather as the van will be the charge station and do not plan on driving it much but as far as to stop building e bikes I doubt I ever will. I got the e bike bug and got it bad. I love experimenting too much.

Don't forget an e bike with two car wheels to add to that list. That might be an electric motorcycle though for the FX - 75 - 5 project. For hauling around a ton of luggage perhaps I should convert a small sedan to electric instead of a trailer.

when I do get a 4 banger to bang around with in the rain and the snow I am buying the smallest and lightest one I can find. The 1980 Plymouth Arrow had a curb weight right around 2,000 lbs. My friend had one and pulled out the 4 banger and stuck a older 10 to 1 compression 318 V8 in it with a 600 Holly 4 barrel carb. 220 HP. 260 foot pounds of torque. It went 55 mph at idle. around 2,000 rpm. He used a gallon milk jug for a gas tank and it went almost 30 miles.

The stock rear end failed at around 100 miles. Bob abandoned the project for a big nasty 440 in a Dodge Cornet RT. We went to Lebanon valley NY speedway almost every week end that summer. Good times.

Doubt I could find one in decent shape though. It was a sporty looking car also.



Something like that would make a perfect conversion. Not sure but think the FX - 75 - 5 motor could even run it at highway speeds. Not sure. Tons of DIY conversions happening every day though. I wish I lived next door to those guys. That is the kind of people I need for friends to hang out with. They probably like to drink beer and have cook outs. My biggest issue is isolation. No friends to do anything with. Everyone here on this post are hundreds or thousands of miles away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiO1HeeWETo&t=393s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ughfd5RIiGo&t=16s

Thanks.

LC. out.

1/3/22 - 5:12 PM.

Yea.

Just got back from paying the rent. Had about an hour and needed to go to 12th street NW to get half from the wife's account then downtown for my half as two different banks then 4th street SW to post office. I usually walk but walk too slow to cover that much ground in an hour. The Diamondback Outlook with the dual Bafangs did it really quickly.

The bad news is I really do not feel like spending money this month. Our bank accounts need a break at least until next month. I don't think the prismatic cells are going anywhere. I have to keep my options open as want a car by spring time. I need to take it easy this month. I got the entire month to finish the 20S - LTOs. Also look for a new apartment and move next month if I find one.

I could always install a large rear rack on the 26" dual suspension for cargo. It has a big factory wire front basket that can fit the 12S - LIFEPO4 packs that weigh 20 pounds and put 40+ pounds of LTO in the frame. I will need to keep the Bafang on the front though. Not enough room for a chain drive motor and basket. That should be good for at least 25 miles maybe 30. I can run the Bafang on the flat and got the LTOs for the rear DD hub motor.

I will be able to haul 30 to 50 pounds of cargo. :lol: Imagine that. About 65 pounds in batteries. + 50 pounds cargo + 235 pounds me. 350 pounds total weight. Should be ok as a 26" steel dual suspension Mongoose I think.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[calab]

Good luck trying to get parts for such an old vehicle if you can do a road trip with a car hauler go to texas their vehicles are rust free. The mercedes benz fortwo parts are no longer available and that was made from 1998–2007 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYh10JN_1BU but if you are smart you would go with a Pontiac Vibe dont laugh because its a crappy domestic piece of shit its in reality a toyota matrix have you looked into cheap mopeds that get 150mpg

 

[latecurtis]

Good luck trying to get parts for such an old vehicle if you can do a road trip with a car hauler go to texas their vehicles are rust free. The mercedes benz fortwo parts are no longer available and that was made from 1998–2007 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYh10JN_1BU but if you are smart you would go with a Pontiac Vibe dont laugh because its a crappy domestic piece of shit its in reality a toyota matrix have you looked into cheap mopeds that get 150mpg

That picture of the Arrow I got off of Google. I wish it was mine. I think it weighs like 2.050 pounds. It don't get much better than that for an EV conversion. I seriously doubt I will ever find one that is not a complete rust bucket. If I were a millionaire I would have one custom built with a Tesla motor. :lol:

I am just going to look for the smallest and lightest compact car I can find under $1,000. Hopefully some day I will be able to convert it. Basically I can do some things like build cheap e bikes. Hopefully pull off a few good clean builds in the future.

The bottom line though is without friends with welding skills and a higher level of mechanical and electrical skills I might never even get to build the FX - 75 - 5 project. If you look at the first video I posted on my last post there was four guys riding it and at least three working on the conversion.

It was a team thing. They were also having a lot of fun doing it. I probably will never give up on e bikes or the EV revolution but I need that team spirit. I need other people with a common interest for any big projects like the FX - 75 - 5 motor. I will probably use it for a 400c dirt bike frame and off road. An electric fork truck motor would probably work better for a large EV conversion. I will only let people ride the FX - 75 - 5 dirt bike that help me build it. Probably on off road trails. Also probably wont ride by myself in case something goes wrong someone needs to call 911. :lol:

I tried to make some friends when I first moved here but one was a hopeless alcoholic and heavy cigarette smoker and the other did that meth shit. I don't do hard drugs and hate being around people who smoke all the time around me. I guess I am just really picky and choosey but now days you have to be. People will rob you if they need to get high. It is really a shame. I have standards. I spent too many years hanging around assholes. One of the reasons I moved out of upstate NY. Most of them died and the two left were / are hopeless alcoholics with no interest in e bikes or the EV revolution.

DA. is the closest to me I think and that is a nice area but he said he don't want to help me with the FX project. I am into computers though and that is what he does. I also like solar power but my wife's son lives 23 miles away so will probably be stuck here. Not sure if any ES members near me. How would I even find them ???

Please let me know. I live in Central Ohio. Canton. Stark county. The meth capitol of the world. :lol:

calab. I added you to my friends list. I added kuz also. I see you are from Canada. Markz is from Canada too. He has not posted in awhile. I hope he is ok. I got relatives in Nova Scotia I do not even know.. My father went there every year with my half brothers and sister before he passed in 09. I was told I am related to half the island. My grand father was from there. I could not go as did not have a passport and am a felon. I think the law changed though. Not sure.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[amberwolf]

go to texas their vehicles are rust free.

Not anywhere I lived or visited, north, central, south, east, or west areas of the state.

You might find more rust free vehicles in desert states, but even those have wet areas and rain and such, and floods some places, so no guarantees on that either.

 

[kuz]

E bikes are my hobby. It is about all I do. It is my life. I like to build and experiment. I don't HAVE to. I CHOOSE to.

:thumb:

You have your own way, nothing wrong with it. You style is not easy to follow but hey, your thread keeps on going, doesn't it.

 

[DrkAngel]

If speed is that important to you, consider. Speed vs range. You can get somewhere slower, or get nowhere fast.

Same bike, motor, battery (36V 14Ah) etc:
30mph = 11 miles range
25mph = 16 miles range
20mph = 24 miles range
15mph = 37 miles range

9 miles to Walmart?
30mph = 18 minutes to Walmart + 4 minutes biking and 210 minutes pushing bike = 214 getting home (242 min round trip)
25mph = 21 minutes to Walmart + 16 minutes biking and 60 minutes pushing bike = 76 getting home (97 min round trip)
20mph = 27 minutes to Walmart + 27 minutes biking getting home (54 min round trip) w\spare 6 mile range, for beer run?
15mph = 36 minutes to Walmart + 36 minutes biking getting home (72 min round trip) + enough battery for another 18 mile round trip+

 

[calab]

Can carry 15lbs up and down 3 flights of stairs portable power battery generator what does your chargers label say if its under 5a 600w or 7a 800w continuous it should work
https://westinghouseoutdoorpower.com/collections/power-stations/products/igen600s-portable-power-station
https://www.amazon.com/Westinghouse-iGen600s-Portable-Generator-Lithium-ion/dp/B08SJ8JBBC/ref=sr_1_4_mod_primary_new?crid=2Y4N3JWLBP57D&keywords=iGen600s+Portable+Power+Station&qid=1641288889&sbo=RZvfv%2F%2FHxDF%2BO5021pAnSA%3D%3D&sprefix=igen600s+portable+power+station%2Caps%2C250&sr=8-4
600w/1200w 600wh 15lbs to carry up and down the stairs
https://www.amazon.com/Portable-TotGuard-Generator-Emergency-Adventure/dp/B0936SMJFP/ref=sr_1_3?crid=19RVV1ITUEBT&keywords=Portable+Generator+800w&qid=1641289048&sprefix=portable+generator+800w%2Caps%2C199&sr=8-3

 

[DrkAngel]

If speed is that important to you, consider. Speed vs range. You can get somewhere slower, or get nowhere fast.

Same bike, motor, battery (36V 14Ah) etc:
30mph = 11 miles range
25mph = 16 miles range
20mph = 24 miles range
15mph = 37 miles range

9 miles to Walmart?
30mph = 18 minutes to Walmart + 4 minutes biking and 210 minutes pushing bike = 214 getting home (242 min round trip)
25mph = 21 minutes to Walmart + 16 minutes biking and 60 minutes pushing bike = 76 getting home (97 min round trip)
20mph = 27 minutes to Walmart + 27 minutes biking getting home (54 min round trip) w\spare 6 mile range, for beer run?
15mph = 36 minutes to Walmart + 36 minutes biking getting home (72 min round trip) + enough battery for another 18 mile round trip+

i know, maintaining partial throttle is difficult and painful with your thumb throttle fetish! OK for wimpass motors and newbees who panic and can't release a twist throttle.
I even recommend against the full twist throttle!
The half twist seems the best functional throttle, for precision and effortless speed control.
Though I doubt anyone would dare to ride off with any of your Mad Max looking monstrosities, you can get half-twist throttles with a keylock function, or with volt (fuel) meter, or with both.

 

[Chalo]

Customer Reviews
Very bad design
By Jerry L. White on March 6, 2021
The engine sprocket would not fit the engine shaft and the belt will not stay on the pulley. It should be recessed with side keepers.… see more

A product doesn't become bad when a stupid person can't figure out how to use it.

Toothed belts stay on *because* they're aligned. If you misalign them and then hold them on with flanges, they grind themselves away and waste power as they do so.

The V shaped groove in a V-belt pulley isn't there for belt alignment; it's for grip. You can look up specifications for alignment tolerances. 0.5 degree maximum is typical for V-belts.

Since then I changed my mind as I ordered a 3,000W 60V brushless motor rated at 4,800 rpm. I can order a custom 90T sprocket and gearing will be around 45 mph.

3kW isn't enough power to carry you to 45 mph on a heavy, draggy bike on flat ground. You're going to need about 4kW at the wheel, so upwards of 5kW electrical power to the motor. Add another kW to waste in the V-belt pulleys.

 

[latecurtis]

If speed is that important to you, consider. Speed vs range. You can get somewhere slower, or get nowhere fast.

In the city average speed is probably close to 10 mph. For trips 5 miles in the country or out of town 20 mph. Right now 10 miles is about the farthest I need to go so if the LTOs can do 10 miles round trip I am good. The 12S LIFE may not make it 10 miles. I think 9 miles at 12S but should do 10 miles at 15S.

That is subject to change though when I move. Everything is close by where I am now so I might wait until next month for the prismatic cells.

9 miles to Walmart?

< 6 miles round trip where I live now.

Can carry 15lbs up and down 3 flights of stairs portable power battery generator what does your chargers label say if its under 5a 600w or 7a 800w continuous it should work

looks pricey. A cheap solar kit is < $200. It only has to charge at 1 amp or 1.5 amps. I don't need 10 amps or 15 amps for over night charging.

3kW isn't enough power to carry you to 45 mph on a heavy, draggy bike on flat ground. You're going to need about 4kW at the wheel, so upwards of 5kW electrical power to the motor. Add another kW to waste in the V-belt pulleys.

I wont be using a belt for the 3 kilowatt motor. It will be short 8mm chain. I wanted to use a belt for the 1,000W chain drive which is a different build.

I am hoping for at least 40 mph with the 3 kilowatt motor. The controller is 70 amps. If I have to I will run close to 70V if that is what it takes. 66V * 70 amps = 4.620W. Not sure if it will pull all 70 amps but using a 90 amp DC breaker.

I will get 40 mph and maybe even 45 mph. I was going to hook up those 13S power modules in series to 3 or 4S LiPo. Now that you told me that it will be 4S - LiPo so 13 * 4.15 = 53,95 or 54V + 4 * 4.15 + 16.6V so 54 + 16 = 70V. It will need to pull 60 amps to reach 4,200W.

3kW isn't enough power to carry you to 45 mph on a heavy, draggy bike on flat ground.

The vintage Haro V3 is a very light aluminum frame. Also two 13S power modules do not weigh that much in series with light 4S - LiPo. I hope for around 46 to 47 mph but can live with 45 mph. Not sure what the LVC is on the 60V controller but I have that 13S - 20 Ah factory 18650 pack out in the van which is < 150 cycles I think. If I could use that for < 30 mph and then switch over to 70V when 40+ mph is desired that would give me > 20 miles of range as well.

You were probably thinking about the Currie or 26" dual suspension with LIFE and or LTOs. Those e bikes are monstrosities. That is why they will be < 30 mph cargo haulers. My 20" bike with the 1,800W brushless motor and the 3 kilowatt brushless motor will be my 35 to 40+ mph e bikes.

A belt would be great for a front chain drive or anywhere a long chain is required. The shorter the chain in a chain drive the better. A short chain is better than a belt drive in efficiency. That changes though the longer the chain.

I am a lazy alcoholic. It was a nice day today. The sun was out most of the day and was close to 40 degrees and I slept straight thru until dark. I got the COVID blues again. I am back to wearing my electric mask and only going to the store for groceries and beer.

I need 60/40 solder , primer and paint to finish the LTOs. Hardware store will close in 15 minutes where the 60/40 solder is so guess it is not happening today. The ring terminals are crimp on but wanted to add a dot of solder if possible to make sure the wire does not pull out for any reason. I have ring terminals for the balance wires too.

I could start hooking the terminals to the wires and crimp them down ; then solder them later I guess. That way the day is not a total waste of time. I can hardly wait until the 20S - LTOs are charging / running. $600 is what they cost so about time I start running them.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[calab]

Solar needs a bright shiny day all day long with no over cast or clouds that gets you less solar energy how much solar energy would you get depends on factors. There are cheaper battery generators I thought the other one I linked to had a price to it I thought it was cheaper which is why I listed it I thought it was around 300-400$ solar is not cheap but it can be cheap and therefore less efficient requiring longer times to charge so overall its a waste of time if you ride alot. If you ride in the afternoon or evening your batteries will not be charged for that night, the next morning, no power at noon, very little in the afternoon and since its winter your frocked until more sunlight comes out. You are digging yourself a bigger hole to drown yourself in a pool of wasted money, laziness, cheap beer and even cheaper cannabis. For exercise you could get yourself a stair climbing trolley (3 rotating wheels on each side to go up and down stairs) to carry your ebike batteries up to the third level to charge from your outlet if you have room in your small cramped apartment or seriously think about moving to a main floor cheap apartment, 2nd floor or basement because you being the lazy alcoholic that you stated you are a 3rd story apartment is two flights of stairs to many when you can live on a main floor. When was the last time your main floor neighbor below you had a break in and do you have some seriously good stuff crack heads can pawn for a quick buck at the pawn shop.

Note that there is a difference between watts continuous and watts maximum and watt-hours. I like the one portable power station that is listed at 80.000mah is 80ah the watts is what your ebike battery charger can take if it says 120v 5a then 600w continuous is what you need and that can charge your battery to max in an hour or two not two days on solar :lol: max watts is for tools or appliances that take a surge upon start up like a circular saw that takes a big surge current to get going or loads up the current cutting wood.

1* pure sine wave 110V AC outlets(500w rated, 750w peak)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/353365667100?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item52463c2d1c:g:dgcAAOSw0KhhUDDm&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsSd0ReTLyM7cxPnI6zs468EI27mDm5%252FX3t1sNsVVKvUjfystnpEarSb4bXdrrCsNT29uA8nP0oOf3CyeJ45gGv4H3hdoc8yXDYu0BzAf888YsfqHZqgliHTWpbf4xBz7W%252BN37xQ%252BkwC78SGE8Zp4avydrOmmL6QdmPlv78S1fHe1pA1TPi%252BycPo7f1qHJEb96ErjkC7Eqn27AaHxLhKaaWbFU%252BJuUpixue0g2qlhUbRV%252B8xPNFJ9eQCfJWw0QwschcnNZuJCL14L9eDgVOjSUbSXRgR58m1a2FHlMEDFlhSkP9t7cooxBZUch5AQ%252BYTXU3gHHbRqc%252B5qnwo5Iq3wx9x7EJF2GSsCCpm3%252Fixg0X89HfFSbdMhhBrm3NEs%252FtTdsE28Q%252BHdfEpKnO3igxKEKDaYDTWlwxkIqcWHVgOnQJTws%252BhkimyUhUtPj8mU0JXGXwPQx6%252Bksszzarf4i3Af2J%252FAKCS%252FL6T7w8gqBhbIDQUqrI9fzIE3ZmJkeww7zCYtnImLww60zULK6oJZtZLKMvpIJvrNtRFMfjlzKKhogWn%252Fss21%252BS4Tn89F6Z6oG9SJwbBE%252FEBG1VFnYIIzAMsPKpIm681yIQGmlZetV1SL9Jq94RfG4GLkCtxn7qyOnAa%252FWhUqatSCZUeG7duo8bckFbIaVZGlImUwjYVYSVwG4SX2oqzBPztf%252B80PrafxL%252BmE%252BZhjqNAHgIPKZTtv%252BMCE9Q9JT5QOYZ4eKwVTda2nA7BRH54Ce1p9ZtUSlx3CRyJ6aDdm1JjRf1cLaEYVIp9twonwWdfbjkRNmEgIBXwgofPJd1XrVnZnPNr3hUzlEbNX2F5XF5fx5GNT4g4Ym5yFMgZw%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMqOa-_MRf
https://www.ebay.com/itm/185114281381?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item2b19abc5a5:g:WyMAAOSwEHlhbU~t&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAACoPYe5NmHp%252B2JMhMi7yxGiTJkPrKr5t53CooMSQt2orsS7UXID%252BRPOSNsnm8kYPghtPigv9nmeSYA2wrxWwSpJFxkSLtS2DO7q25FAk%252FLrgD2NsuYW0UYDDZgkMR3ELCux2PSUBbwiszG6BWkHsQXnGbx1qaPkFu6diDFfSxHfThq22KkIojouk3ySpflUgG%252F7gkJL18yASZjDL2f3pnJe%252BvkF%252FRX7yEJG0hU2zxukV2pklkU%252FzZpWstkUdz3L26%252Bsa%252F5yY6x8oe1vvOvKIwqVpPXoIOzYpp51avCrWIR3VfGCzW7HQLzct9ZXsnVRCpnAtclIhbqoQNl0p2%252BHV7KN11yIth5E%252Bga3YytPwiSkQRxmnXTqbQPLcnuClsFcVwY5pkRiWPTsYWUvR5OOUC5Mja3PRHWAixlGNrRuD3veHejOoRmfS4Nc%252F3AGrwk%252FtcOB%252F8xScrscnqsCBpehAeVyVyx8vvjcL1RPoqFXABhDEml2a%252B0E8i2T%252B8lRHJoIbjM0xoR0EAfL7FbIWYV7HWPeb4hNZTdVdDZpA8NWjEMji6JyOASwAebZuw89Acc1%252FMkRRDW1cT5sibOI2xFeAf%252BO6zQe5xskHnUVOVjMVwqHZfvHKsnm%252BFUGHJhQQCOGwq2hUoavM5AS%252FJPVE76jYRhZjwgf4Knp3%252BV%252BCI4%252B55UUbTqPs%252BpJTbCtdHc7mCPKynsE6osmXCiEO4bxz5ksZHy7DEOJ3wHjV%252FueY4ARP15sqB7wNfPcnx1%252FYpdxNIaR84aBlxRjVmRicVFnziQPl2%252BsHPB8fepv6aKCkdGXcrFqDlEKnu6P0sEznsjeHQhZhQG4I937cXOFETlptgx4mTYsl0L2w2tw3uk1y30hOlILwH%252Fh7415g3GQwgobGwcR8JKkQ%253D%253D%7Cclp%3A2334524%7Ctkp%3ABFBMqOa-_MRf
https://www.ebay.com/itm/353543553276?hash=item5250d680fc:gaQAAOSw2P5g0csd

You could make your own portable power generator with the batteries you have but my guess is you have very little wh's on all of your batteries because you complain frequently about not having enough wh to go the distances you ride. For portable battery generators 80ah is better then a 40ah portable battery generator and more wh is better then less wh, I cant figure out how many ah you would use on those using a battery charger but on a 120v 5a charger input plugged into the generator the common charger output is 36v 36-48v 10-15a from memory is common. Looking at spec sheets now the 600w non generic charger (good charger) with 7.6a 115vac charger input needs 874w due to efficiency losses in even the good chargers. 450w charger 5A/115VAC 115x5 575w and 36v 0 ~ 12.5A and 48v 0 ~ 9.5A. I doubt you can get that kind of action using solar :lol: carry around $300-400 10lbs and be ready to go in 1-2hrs to go back to walmart beer or cannabis store the
same day or spend $250 on solar and be ready to ride in 2 days. Winter has less sunlight hours.

The area of the roof on your vehicle would be 16 square feet 0.09290304 sq meters in one square foot
10.76391 square feet equals 1 square meter. Add cheap solar panels you get less efficiency.
https://www.nrel.gov/gis/solar-supply-curves.html
https://www.nrel.gov/gis/assets/images/solar-annual-ghi-2018-usa-scale-01.jpg
https://www.nrel.gov/gis/solar-resource-maps.html
https://www.nrel.gov/gis/assets/images/solar-january-ghi-2018-usa-scale-01.jpg

What would your kwh be per day in January for 1.5 square meters of cheap solar panel area thats if you park unshaded and the other thing is worrying about passerby's who see solar panels on the roof of your car you can hide the portable power station inside the vehicle.

 

[latecurtis]

yea.

You have a lot of valid points. I will need to re think the solar kit. DA. said it was a waste of money also I think.

I was just thinking about what a huge disappointment the 1,800W brushless motor has been and how to rectify it.

It is still fun to ride and has good acceleration and hill climbing ability but I got the same top speed from the 750W - 36V gear reduction motor with 12S - LiPo back in NY and a higher top speed from a 48V - 1,000W Unite chain drive.

1,800W brushless motor with 13S - Lion = 28 mph.

with 15S - LIFEPO4 = 25 mph.

36V - 750W gear reduction @ 12S - LiPo = 28 mph.

48V - 1,000W Unite motor with 12S - LiPo = 29 mph.

I forgot to check the last time I changed the tire but think it is a 60T spoke sprocket on there now.



Yea. that is a lot bigger but tried and tried and could not get lightshot to work anymore. stopped working weeks ago. Google said was onedrive so I uninstalled that but did not help. I uninstalled lightshot. and downloaded greenshot and could only figure out full screen capture. No print screen on laptop so opened in paint to do those.

Above is current gearing with a 60T spoke sprocket.

Looking at 20S LTOs and the 800W - 36V - 2,750 rpm chain on the front. Also getting rid of the rag tag spoke sprocket and ordering a 44T - 8mm freewheel sprocket for the 3,000 rpm - 1,800W brushless motor and an 8mm - 62T for the 36V motor @ 48V and 3,666 rpms. The gearing will be 1.5 mph difference approximately. That is as close as I can get with 8mm sprockets unless I go with a custom sprocket/sprockets which run up to 3 times as much $$$$$.

Since I am keeping the Bafang on the front of the 26" dual suspension cargo bike in order to keep the front basket for my 12S LIFPO4 for the extra range and 20S - LTO in the frame.

The 800W - 36V motor is available for the 20" bike with the 1,800W brushless motor for my official 35 mph e bike. The 20S - LTOs will fit on the frame. I measured it as the seat goes up high enough for clearance.

Minimum total power should be

1,500W - limited by brushless controller + 1,000W brush controller = 2,500W.

I am happy with the idea as the 20" bike even with the brushless chain drive is a lot easier to carry up the stairs than the 26" dual suspension and the Currie. The Currie is staying a 36V e bike and am keeping the Bafang on the front of the dual suspension so both are done and can stay in the van. The plan was to upgrade the Currie to the 25 Ah prismatic cells and a 40 amp 36V controller.

As soon as the LTOs are finished I will hook them up to the 1,800W brushless motor first and if I get 30 mph or more then I wont need the brush motor on the front. If still < 30 mph I will order the 8mm chain and sprockets this month. No sense in all that work for 4 or 5 mph. I probably could gear it for 40 mph or more but not sure I want to go that fast on a 20" kids bike. :lol:

On my way to the beer store.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[kuz]

LC I am a bit lost in this stream of consiousness but sure want to say that this

The vintage Haro V3 is a very light aluminum frame.

worries me if it is intended to be powered by the 3 kW motor mounted on the front fork. That is asking for trouble, torgue arm or not. Then comes braking. Rim brakes may not stop the loaded bike in an emergency. If disk brake is coerced on the front fork it may have enough stopping power but the whimpy fork may give in if you have to brake hard. It may only happen once but it'd be a memorable event if you live through it.

The other idea to put the 3kW motor on as cheap suspension fork is equally dangerous. Too late in the day for me to search front fork trouble discussions. Find the tread on early Yuba V4 front fork damage, it's one example. Must be more here.

You _really_ have to take it more seriously.

 

[latecurtis]

That looks almost exactly like mine. I took off the heavy duty steel rear rack that came stock with the Currie. It was for mounting two 10 Ah - SLAs on each side as the Currie came with that option. The rack is now on the Haro V3. If you look back to the first few pages on this post you will see it on the Currie.

The 3 kilowatt brushless motor will go on the back and mount low on the rack where the stock battery pack went. The chain will be really short and will be efficient.

I will probably run a Bafang on the front for extra range with 12S - LIFEPO4. I can run disk on the front and V brakes or U brakes in the rear. Range will be > 20 miles with the two power modules in series with 4S - LiPo for 70V to the rear and 12S - LIFEPO4 for a front Bafang.

The rear motor will be for up hills and when I want to go 45 mph. For long trips I can portable charge the 12S - LIFE and only use the rear motor sparingly. I also have the 13S - 20 Ah factory 1,200W Lion pack. I could also run that for the rear motor as a spare pack. That will extend range even more.

Thanks.

LC. out.

 

[calab]

45mph :lol: your logic for two motors is genius one motor can limit your throttle urges and the other motor to go 45mph again :lol: whats your health insurance coverage like?

The rear motor will be for up hills and when I want to go 45 mph. For long trips I can portable charge the 12S - LIFE and only use the rear motor sparingly. I also have the 13S - 20 Ah factory 1,200W Lion pack. I could also run that for the rear motor as a spare pack. That will extend range even more.

Thanks.

LC. out.