To come back to Merlin's request, this setting is very good for keeping a constant power except that it would be necessary to define what happens when the battery has reached the minimum voltage that we programmed. I find that the lowering of the power to never go below the programmed minimum voltage is great. In my case I programmed at 68v for my 20s pack. I managed to reach my home located 1km away, with a 20s battery at 68v. The last 50 meters the controller had reduced the battery intensity to 7A x 68v or 476w. If I had the constant power setting I would have traveled 3m and then I would have come back on foot pushing my 400kg cart for 997m. :lol:
Nucular electronics - complete kit for ev!
- Thread starter VasiliSk
- Start date
Yep... A power limit doesn't mean you get more as you setup...at this point voltage x amps doesn't hit your power limit setting you have just less power.
Of course it's pretty dumb idea to setup power limits near maximum possible.
If you want a constant power from fresh to hit the lvc its not 'useful' possible. At this point where cells sag down to lvc controller will limit output power.
There are many situations where you don't have much of this setting (small batteries +high power) etc.
But anyone can setup something like "daily" ride and Iam sure you will love it.
Of course it's pretty dumb idea to setup power limits near maximum possible.
If you want a constant power from fresh to hit the lvc its not 'useful' possible. At this point where cells sag down to lvc controller will limit output power.
There are many situations where you don't have much of this setting (small batteries +high power) etc.
But anyone can setup something like "daily" ride and Iam sure you will love it.
serious_sam
10 kW
VasiliSk said:
It's awesome.
I didn't realise it was included. Then I was trying to figure out how to mount the display, and I found the mount in with the other parts. Nice little bonus.
This controller is a gift that keeps on giving!
ElectricGod
10 MW
Merlin said:
Dumb? Maybe...depends on your use case.
If I am in a race, I want max power possible.
Daily riding around, this might not be the best setting. Something a bit more conservative might be better since i don't really need full power all the time.
I have a stand-up scooter. It tops out at 45mph on 66v and 70 battery amps on the full power setting. Acceleration is pretty strong and somewhat disconcerting. If you are not ready for it when you crank the throttle, the scooter will leave you in its dust! My medium setting gets used a lot. Acceleration is somewhat less and top speed is 30mph. It's a lot more comfortable for daily use and range is significantly improved. That full power setting does get used. I'll ride in traffic with cars and sometimes I need to pass somebody in a car. 45mph gets me there in most street traffic!
Hi All,
I'm trying to design a pre charge circuit to go along with my Nucular 24F installation and I can't seem to find any information about the capacitance of this controller.
Or are you guys just using a 'close enough' pre charge circuit to manually energize the system and then leaving the battery connected long term? I see the 300uA standby current so maybe leaving it connected and coming up with a jumper harness to manually precharge wouldn't be the end of the world with this controller.
I'm trying to design a pre charge circuit to go along with my Nucular 24F installation and I can't seem to find any information about the capacitance of this controller.
Or are you guys just using a 'close enough' pre charge circuit to manually energize the system and then leaving the battery connected long term? I see the 300uA standby current so maybe leaving it connected and coming up with a jumper harness to manually precharge wouldn't be the end of the world with this controller.
ElectricGod
10 MW
HCx said:
That's what I do. Close enough is good enough.
I use a 10 watt, 1K resistor for precharge on everything.
It takes more than a second to get the caps fully charged regardless of the controller and the capacitance.
But a second is plenty to eliminate 80-90% of the inrush spark on any 24 fet controller.
Since I have a 24 fet on my bench that is getting set up and a 1K precharge, I thought it worthwhile to make a video. It looks like there are lots of exposed bare connections on things. They have clear heat shrink on them.
https://youtu.be/uDJT4tD4pZ0
Ohbse
10 kW
ElectricGod said:
This is obviously very incorrect, phase amps x battery voltage would result in more power output than power input from the battery.
Torque is phase amps, if you want more 'kick' you need more phase amps. A 12f will not give you enough torque on a qs273.
Current drops as bemf of the motor increases until motor current reaches near zero as voltage available equals bemf. Fw extends this speed at the expense of additional current being required. This is speed range is limited by the bemf voltage exceeding the controller silicon limits.
ElectricGod
10 MW
Ohbse said:
Very incorrect? How about overly simplistic and close enough for people that don't want to read white papers or spend time understanding what's really going on.
I said phase amps increases torque. Not sure what your point is.
For people that like white papers...
Here's one about how Kv works:
http://learningrc.com/motor-kv/
A couple of basic articals on bEMF:
https://www.motioncontroltips.com/lenzs-law/
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/277602/where-does-back-emf-appear-in-motor
Ohbse
10 kW
ElectricGod said:
My point is that this:
Is not true.ElectricGod said:
sn0wchyld
100 kW
ElectricGod said:
EG mate, this is why some people get annoyed with you from time to time. On your RV motor thread you've just had it explained by several people in no uncertain terms that the calculation bV x phA is meaningless/useless/erroneous, yet here you are defending it as somehow valid or useful, if but 'oversimplified'. Its not even that... It doesn't tell you anything about the system at hand. its not 'motor watts'... motor watts is either A, = battery watts (perhaps accounting for controller output efficiency), or B, = mechanical output power, NEITHER of which is related to or determined by bV x phA. phA gives a indication of torque, subject to things like saturation. bV gives an indication of max RPM with respect to a given motor. its only with the knowledge of bA that power of either the battery output/motor input, or the motor mechanical output can be determined... and none of these values are determined (nor any other value of worth) by multiplying bV with phA. Perhaps you can explain what you are trying to get a 'feel for' with this number your calculating, some of us might be able to point you in a better direction?
You may well see this as some kind of 'personal attack' mate, but its not - its constructive criticism of the errors in your understanding and knowledge, with a clear indication as to both why its in error, and how to fix/improve it. And its stated in an effort to head off spreading of further confusion on an already complicated/complex enough system. If your looking for a 'simplified' view / understanding of the system, this is simply not the way to do it, because as mentioned several times now, it doesn't bare any relation to how the system will behave.
sn0wchyld
100 kW
hey all finally got my nuk on my surron - 2 imidiate questions though, does anyone know the thermal probe type in the motor + its pole count? and is it possible to swap the throttle and brake controls (ie so my 'brake' becomes my 'throttle' and visa versa). Am presently hunting through the wiki but not found anything yet... chrs
edit found 2/3 on the wiki, last one is the brake/throttle switch? cheers.
also, is there a way to mode switch using the screen buttons, or only an external button?
edit found 2/3 on the wiki, last one is the brake/throttle switch? cheers.
also, is there a way to mode switch using the screen buttons, or only an external button?
j bjork
1 MW
sn0wchyld said:
I don't know anything about surron. But mode switch, I guess you mean 1,2,3,R ?
You can set up the buttons on the display to do that in different ways, look up "hot keys" in the manual. Works very good, no need for an external switch.
serious_sam
10 kW
HCx said:
Quoted capacitance of 12F is 2000uf.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=75494&p=1483963#p1483989
Not sure about the 24F, but I would assume it's 4000uf. You could ask Vasiliy on the Telegram chat to confirm.
When I was doing some preliminary testing of my 12F (before I had a precharge circuit up and running), I was just plugging my 20S test pack into the controller, and I wasn't seeing any sparks. I would probably feel fine without any precharge. YMMV.
However, I am running a precharge/kill switch for my 12F. The circuit activates a mosfet that precharges the controller through a 100R 10W resistor whilst sensing the capacitor charge voltage, and turns on the main power mosfets when the capacitor charge reaches ~95% (which takes about 0.5 seconds). It is activated by a switch on the handlebars, so it also doubles as a kill switch, cutting all power to the controller if required. I like the idea that I can disconnect the battery with a flick of a switch on the handlebars in an emergency. Any system that can relatively easily cause fire should have some kind of redundant safety, IMO.
sn0wchyld
100 kW
j bjork said:
that got it cheers - though there doesn't appear to be a option to select mode 1? i can get 2, 3 and R but 1 doesn't appear as an option at all... still hoping theres a software way to swap throttle and brake too...
j bjork
1 MW
It goes back to 1 when you press it again. At least that is how it works with my setup. I have one button for 1/2, one for 1/3 and one for whatever/R (that one goes back to the setting it had before R)
sn0wchyld
100 kW
j bjork said:
In my case its always on 2 - or goes back to 2, with no option for 1... even having programmed 1 button to switch to mode 1... so i can only get 2, 3, R...
VasiliSk said:
fair enough, with the surron harness then - the throttle input is not connected, if I connect a throttle to that can I still use it (instead of the default input)?
serious_sam
10 kW
Hi Vasiliy,
If I have my 12F set to "speed" or "speed/torque" mode, and I am moving with 0 throttle or brake, when I start to turn the throttle, the motor has some inconsistent jerking/braking action, which feels bad.
This does not happen in "torque" mode. "Torque" mode works flawlessly.
Any ides? Thanks.
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