Please help, need very basic information

[klemkas]

Hi, i'm sorry, i'm a total noob in electronics. I bought goldenmotor minihub 24v 250w motor, i thought it goes with two wires, + and -, i'll connect it to two sla batteries and there i go. But when it arrived, it has three wires (three phase motor?), and 5 pin connector (oh my god). I don't know what to do with all this.

Can you please refer me to any basic information, how these three phase dc motors work, how to get them running in the simplest way, and do i need to connect anything to that 5 pin connector, or can it be loose? any links or advices on where to start looking for information would be so much help. i googled for a while, but can't seem to find any usefull starter information for noobs. i so don't want such an expensive purchase to go to waste.. i'll learn electronics if i must to launch this motor. thanks to anybody who will help, i'm at your mercy..

 

[Alan B]

Welcome to ES.

If you google search for "brushless DC motor" you can find lots of info on how they work.

You need a BLDC motor controller. It connects to the three motor phase wires, and to the five hall sensor wires. They tell the controller where the motor is, and the controller then knows how to apply the power at that moment. There are six commutation phases as the motor rotates. The controller does the motor commutation since there is no commutator in this type of motor. It is actually a much better motor than the regular DC brushed motor, but a bit more complicated to understand.

If you look at the technical section of this forum you will find articles answering your questions. I would suggest that you read for awhile and then ask more specific questions as you come up to speed.

The easiest thing is to get a plug compatible controller from the motor vendor. Otherwise you may have to sort out the nonstandard connections which adds complexity to the project. Buying compatible parts gives a much easier starting point, and the vendor will also give you some support.

 

[klemkas]

oh my god, what a moron i am, i should have looked for a brushed motor then.. if i want a controller from the vendor, i'll have to buy a throttle too for sure. and the controller costs almost as much as motor itself. (at least i could have saved on shipping if only i knew) ah.. i'll try to search the threads for helpfull info and post if any usefull questions will rise. I fear my best bet will be to sell this thing.. Thank you very much for a reply, its good to know i can get help.

 

[Alan B]

A controller for that motor should not cost as much as the motor, they generally range around $70 and up depending on the voltage and current. Throttles are about 15 bucks.

You can buy a controller from another vendor, you just have to deal with changing plugs and getting the wiring right. There are vendors here that sell controllers who might be willing to work with you. See the for sale new part of the forum for those.

Brushed motors generally still require a controller and throttle, unless you want only full speed. Brushless motors are better in so many ways.

Good luck with your project,

 

[spinningmagnets]

If you want a new inexpensive brushed controller try TNC-scooters http://tncscooters.com/partsdb.php?type=ES

If you want a used unit for half-price to experiment with, go to the "score" thread from member McDesign:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20921

 

[Jethro56]

If you want a new inexpensive brushed controller try TNC-scooters http://tncscooters.com/partsdb.php?type=ES

If you want a used unit for half-price to experiment with, go to the "score" thread from member McDesign:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20921

Wouldn't this be a brushless motor with the extra connector?

 

[neptronix]

heh, i think spinningmagnets read your posts wrong.

Anyhow you need a controller no matter what. Unless a jolt of 100% torque with an on or off switch is what you really want ( better build some real strong motor mounts )

So get a controller for that hub. eCrazyman ( Shenzen ) sells cheap controllers on eBay.

Look for a 24v ~15a controller.

BTW, that's going to be pretty slow.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Oooops! You are right, I read so fast, all I thought I saw that he had two wires and then a third wire. Yeah, McDesign has a bunch of brushed controllers cheap, this guy needs brushless...

 

[klemkas]

Well i decided to use Alan B. advice and buy a controller from goldenmotor, i see now that i have too little knowledge to experiment myself.
If i can ask for one more advice, do i need a pc interface for that "magick" controller, or will the factory settings go just fine? http://www.goldenmotor.com/frame-controllers.htm

As for the power, i just wanted the cheapest possible variant for getting help for uphill climbing. I would always pedal, and only turn on motor on hills to help me go up. Thats why i looked for the cheapest motor with freewheel and wanted to use two small sla batteries and have only on/off switch but i see now, that i overlooked many things and stepped on a rake. No way back now, have to scrap the savings and finish this purchase.

 

[theRealFury]

Well i decided to use Alan B. advice and buy a controller from goldenmotor, i see now that i have too little knowledge to experiment myself.
If i can ask for one more advice, do i need a pc interface for that "magick" controller, or will the factory settings go just fine? http://www.goldenmotor.com/frame-controllers.htm

As for the power, i just wanted the cheapest possible variant for getting help for uphill climbing. I would always pedal, and only turn on motor on hills to help me go up. Thats why i looked for the cheapest motor with freewheel and wanted to use two small sla batteries and have only on/off switch but i see now, that i overlooked many things and stepped on a rake. No way back now, have to scrap the savings and finish this purchase.

Hi, Looks to me like the 24v brushless controller they sell is a 50amp one, in that case it will push up to 1200watts through your tiny motor on the factory settings so i would say that you would need to program that controller through a PC before using it on your motor. Im sure it would work without programming but i doubt your motor would last 5 minues going up an hill with that power going through it before it got dammaged. If you are not afraid of changing connectors (or removing them and soldering wires together as i did for my throttle) then i can highly recommend E-crazyman (ebay seller of good cheap controllers) controllers as they really are good quality for the small money you pay. I think what you would need from him would be http://cgi.ebay.com/24V-250W-brushl...573?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ca7b48da5 but i believe you would need a SENSORLESS version like i did. I just emailed him through Ebay asking if he can do a sensorless version and he said he could do. This would work fine without modifying it other than the connector for the throttle will probably not match. If your 3 motor phase wires just have bullet connectors on them then they should connect straight to the controller i linked to.

as for the power... you need a throttle to go with the motor and controller simply because putting full power through a motor with just an on/off switch is too stressfull for the motor and probably for your bike frame as well, you need to roll on the throttle as this will make the motor last longer. Hopefully a controller and a throttle will cost you at most $60 delivered.

Good luck

 

[klemkas]

Hi, Looks to me like the 24v brushless controller they sell is a 50amp one, in that case it will push up to 1200watts through your tiny motor on the factory settings so i would say that you would need to program that controller through a PC before using it on your motor. Im sure it would work without programming but i doubt your motor would last 5 minues going up an hill with that power going through it before it got dammaged. If you are not afraid of changing connectors (or removing them and soldering wires together as i did for my throttle) then i can highly recommend E-crazyman (ebay seller of good cheap controllers) controllers as they really are good quality for the small money you pay. I think what you would need from him would be http://cgi.ebay.com/24V-250W-brushl...573?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ca7b48da5 but i believe you would need a SENSORLESS version like i did. I just emailed him through Ebay asking if he can do a sensorless version and he said he could do. This would work fine without modifying it other than the connector for the throttle will probably not match. If your 3 motor phase wires just have bullet connectors on them then they should connect straight to the controller i linked to.
Good luck

Well the vendor wrote that it would be "24v控制器 controller (24V/10A)", i think it means it will be configured for 10 amps, but maybe i should get that pc interface just in case, to look if it really is what they say..

wow, thats three times as cheap. i like soldering. but now i'm too afraid, if the stuff won't work, soldering skills won't help me.

Just of curiosity, why should i need a sensorless controller? the motor has 5 sensor wires.

 

[theRealFury]

Hi, Looks to me like the 24v brushless controller they sell is a 50amp one, in that case it will push up to 1200watts through your tiny motor on the factory settings so i would say that you would need to program that controller through a PC before using it on your motor. Im sure it would work without programming but i doubt your motor would last 5 minues going up an hill with that power going through it before it got dammaged. If you are not afraid of changing connectors (or removing them and soldering wires together as i did for my throttle) then i can highly recommend E-crazyman (ebay seller of good cheap controllers) controllers as they really are good quality for the small money you pay. I think what you would need from him would be http://cgi.ebay.com/24V-250W-brushl...573?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ca7b48da5 but i believe you would need a SENSORLESS version like i did. I just emailed him through Ebay asking if he can do a sensorless version and he said he could do. This would work fine without modifying it other than the connector for the throttle will probably not match. If your 3 motor phase wires just have bullet connectors on them then they should connect straight to the controller i linked to.
Good luck

Well the vendor wrote that it would be "24v控制器 controller (24V/10A)", i think it means it will be configured for 10 amps, but maybe i should get that pc interface just in case, to look if it really is what they say..

wow, thats three times as cheap. i like soldering. but now i'm too afraid, if the stuff won't work, soldering skills won't help me.

Just of curiosity, why should i need a sensorless controller? the motor has 5 sensor wires.

Ahh sorry, my mistake, i thougt you said it just had the 3 phase wires, if you have the 5 hall wires as well then you could use that exact controller, i cant be much help with hall wire matching though as i have never done it but im sure there are hundreds of posts on here explaining how to do it. soldering / connecting the throttle wires is very easy though.

If the controller is 24v/10A max you will be dissapointed, i know i was with my original 12A controller, i upgraded pretty quickly and now have a 25A controller (max i get out of it is 19 though) so be warned

 

[klemkas]

Thank you all for advices, for explaining why on/off is bad and for usefull ebay link. I ordered the original pricy goldenmotor controller with pc interface. So i definately will be back if i have problems. I see that you are very nice here even to newbies like me. I see that bicycles make people friendly, not like cars

 

[theRealFury]

Thank you all for advices, for explaining why on/off is bad and for usefull ebay link. I ordered the original pricy goldenmotor controller with pc interface. So i definately will be back if i have problems. I see that you are very nice here even to newbies like me. I see that bicycles make people friendly, not like cars

Hey, your welcome. This forum is the best forum in the world i have only been on here a few months and i have learned so much from all the kind people on here.

Good luck with your project