R12 mod for high voltage regen

You can go with a bit higher voltage settings no problem except if you go reg break with fully charged battery and your reg break voltage setup is higher then your mosfet can keep. Then you will have small amount of withe smoke and controller is away.

Tested my self
But reg break is stronger -correct :D
 
Ah yes the MOSFETS was only thinking battery volts, not thinking about controller limits at all
Thanks
 
number1cruncher said:
There are two main types of controllers people use on ES: 846 and 116. The 846 has a lower (~57V) regen voltage allowance than the 116 (~75V). Lyen sells the 116s and E-bikekit.com used to sell the 846s.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the clarification. So is there a way to modify the 846 to allow regen with 14s (58.8V) or higher?
 
Since no one has answered, I can take a guess and see if anyone can comment on my ideas.

Since the 116. variant cant handle higher regen volts, I am assuming that it also cant handle higher input voltages from a bigger pack either, so if that is the case, then it may be a case if modfing it for higher voltages in general
So from what I have read, it would be


transistor mod that allows wider input voltages
4110 FETS
100 volt caps
 
Sam

check this thread out too...I have been asking similar things...

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30926&p=447521#p447521

do answer yet though
 
So I did this mod on a newer 116 chip infineon board, used 4.2k parallel to R12 and the regen voltage is now just a couple volts under 100V (up from stock 75V). With a freshly charged 24S/5Ah lipo pack, I can only get regen after about 2km riding. On 15S or 20S it's working normally all the time. I'm gonna keep it like this to stay safe, as I'm riding at 20S most of the time anyway.
 
Hugues said:
But wait a minute here.
Why do we have this limit then ?
I thought it was to protect the battery ?

Isn't it dangerous to let the system regen your pack at higher than full charge voltage ?

Or I'm missing something here ?
Click to expand...
The only time you need to worry about that is if you live on a hill (like I do) and your pack is fully charged, and then you regen going downhill on a very tiny low Ah battery and the hill is miles long. :)

Seriously – you will never, or perhaps rarely exceed the voltage of the pack on regen to a dangerous level except in the case of initial overcharge – and going down a steep hill for miles: The issue is overrated. Caveat to that: You do not want to set the regen voltage above the FETs rated voltage level; that will harm the controller.

A high margin for HVC is good if you want stronger electric braking. On my 2WD, I modified R12 to provide 94V of regen which at my normal operating level of 63V, the effect was jarring to say the least. However the extra amount was useful when pulling a large amount of weight – such as a trailer. I think that for 48V systems, 74V would provide more than enough breaking effect for a light ebike. Higher operating voltages (like mine) need the R12 mod to make ebraking worthy.

Make sense? :)
~KF
 
Thanks, got it clear now. But good to keep an eye on the voltage on the CA once in a while .
I do live on a hill and going down to work in the morning on a fresh charge.

Speaking of braking, actually mine is slowing me down a little too much. Sometimes I need to peddle a bit while going down and regen in order to keep my speed. Would be nice if we could adjust the level of regen on the fly.

Thanks.
 
One more thing to note: The higher the regen voltage vs pack voltage, the higher the regen current can be, up to whatever limit the controller sets on that.

If the pack is a low-charge-rate pack, you'll want to try not to regen for long periods at high currents; this is only likely on a long downhill run anyway, if you are braking the whole time.

For short bursts, unless the BMS for a pack has aproblem with it, even high regen currents are probably not an issue. As an example, 8A regen for just a moment, dropping to 6A then quickly to 4A and less, hasn't noticeably hurt my LiFePO4 pack that typically charges from the wall at 3A. But I don't think I'd prefer to use regen braking at the 8A level to keep me slowed down on the 7th Street hill on North Mountain. :lol:
 
I think it is something to do with the difference between open circuit and loaded circuit voltage
You could set your limit to 100 volts and use a 50 volt battery pack
If you started doing heavy regen braking immediately after puttting in a freshly charged pack, you would risk over volting the pack, but give it a mile or so riding and you are going to need a big long steep hill with continious regen braking to put back in what you have discharged

If you were able to measure the regen voltage with no load connected( no battery) you would I think find very measured voltages, but put a load and draw some current and that potential is ' converted ' into current and measured voltage is lower
The regen limit is just that, it cuts out regen once measured voltage reaches a level

So, I am pretty sure you can set regen voltage limit to what ever you need and you won't over volt your cells unless you live at the top of a massive hill and start the ride with a huge long regen hill with a fresh pack
 
hey look, lots of simultaneous posts saying the same thing :)

Three board members all agreeing....that must be a first :lol:
 
Hugues said:
Speaking of braking, actually mine is slowing me down a little too much. Sometimes I need to peddle a bit while going down and regen in order to keep my speed. Would be nice if we could adjust the level of regen on the fly.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

That sounds like you have the 'slip charge' regen enabled, where regen starts as you roll off the throttle

If you have an Infinieon controller...and I assume you do since this mod is for that controller type..then you could try this

The controller has a jumper to enable regen braking, as well as the 'regen braking now' jumper that connects to the brake lever switch.

What I have seen suggested , and what I plan to try is connect one brake lever to the 'regen brake enable ' jumper and one to the brake lever jumper

Set the switch on the brake lever to activate just when you first move the brake lever and before mechanical braking starts.

So right hand brake lever connects to the brake enable jumper...
Left hand brake lever connects to the normal brake regen jumper.

If you want 'slip charge' regen when you roll off the throttle, also slightly pull in the right hand brake lever to activate regen braking

If you want full on regen braking, then slightly pull on both brake lever to
A) enable regen brakin via LH lever and
B) Activate the braking via the RH lever
 
Mmmm... Interesting. Some answers..and more questions:

NeilP said:
....

That sounds like you have the 'slip charge' regen enabled, where regen starts as you roll off the throttle
Click to expand...
Nop. I have the regen cable of my infineon connected to my magura hydraulic switch on right lever.

NeilP said:
If you have an Infinieon controller...and I assume you do since this mod is for that controller type..then you could try this

The controller has a jumper to enable regen braking, as well as the 'regen braking now' jumper that connects to the brake lever switch.
Click to expand...
Now the question. I can only see one jumper called BK on my board as you can see below. Do you know where is the other one and which one is which ?

NeilP said:
What I have seen suggested , and what I plan to try is connect one brake lever to the 'regen brake enable ' jumper and one to the brake lever jumper

Set the switch on the brake lever to activate just when you first move the brake lever and before mechanical braking starts.

So right hand brake lever connects to the brake enable jumper...
Left hand brake lever connects to the normal brake regen jumper.

If you want 'slip charge' regen when you roll off the throttle, also slightly pull in the right hand brake lever to activate regen braking

If you want full on regen braking, then slightly pull on both brake lever to
A) enable regen brakin via LH lever and
B) Activate the braking via the RH lever
Click to expand...

Now you lost me. This would give to different regen speed ? But how ? WHen regen is on, it's fully on no ?

Thanks for your time and patience. I'm very interested in that subject. And was planning to buy a second magura switch for security.

back.jpg
 
Some controller boards have variable regen: My first controller from eBikes.CA had variable regen through the throttle; it felt like two levels of strength and I documented it here. The controller that I used recently for the road trip came from Lyen and offers only one level. We discussed if it was possible to change this when I met him in San Francisco. Controllers with variable regen manage it internally through firmware. However an out-of-the-box theory that suggests a circuit could affect the value of R12 dynamically by sensing the value of the throttle during braking; I can understand how to do this through the Event Model in software although I wouldn’t have much of a clue how to do it in hardware. Anyway – the idea belongs to Edward; perhaps some intrepid EE could conjure up this prized nugget for us pining away in want of variable regen. :idea: :wink:

Clue: The slope and values of R12 could be obtained by augmenting Hyena's R12 Calculator.

My $0.02 McGiver moment, KF
 
I have a Lyen controller, and it does have the variable throttle roll off regen braking
Called slip charge in the keywin and XPD software

I am at work now on iPod, so cant access my pics but I seem to remember that BK shorted to ground enables regen braking, and the EBS pad is the one the brake lever connects to
It is documented on the site, so it should not be too dificult to find
 
NeilP said:
I have a Lyen controller, and it does have the variable throttle roll off regen braking
Called slip charge in the keywin and XPD software

I am at work now on iPod, so cant access my pics but I seem to remember that BK shorted to ground enables regen braking, and the EBS pad is the one the brake lever connects to
It is documented on the site, so it should not be too dificult to find
Click to expand...
Neil, can you post the controller model/chip that has this feature please.

In the past I have not been happy with slip-mode because it reminds me of the way my tractor throttles: When you're on it - you go forward; when you let off - you are braking and there is no freewheel (unless I take it out of gear). I desire freewheel and therefore slip-mode is a non-starter option. However - I am not entirely sure that this mode provides variable regen because of the overlaping behavior of throttle. If memory serves me correctly, when throttle = ON (whatever the level), selecting the eBrake cuts it out. When throttle = OFF and you are regenerating, eBrake does what... freewheel? I am pretty sure this was the default behavior, and I switched it over so I could have regen during normal braking (mechanical & ebrake at the same time).

I am curious to know if there anyone else running slip-mode, and if they can confirm or share the behavior. :)

Thanks, KF
 
my board is EB218. if you want to know the exact model, you will have to search for my post where I ask for comparison between my Infinieon from Lyen and a Crystalyte Infineon controller

What I am suggesting with the two brake levers wired to different pads will give you full freewheeling, and also slip/ throttle braking with a gentle pull of the relevant brake lever, then the " sudden" full on regenbrakingwhen the other lever is used
 
Done it for you , found a computer rather than using the iPod

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30426

My infineon 18FET Lyen edition 65 amp controller is a EB218 AS-1 board.

I have a Crystalyte 72v 48 amp controller
It is a EB218 A 2 board.
No idea what regen is available on that.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8317&hilit=+regen
 
my board is different, if i ground the BK pad, throttle is deactivated and regen activated.

Probably i'm going to say something stupid here, but how about this method to play with the level of regen:
- if i press my brake lever, regen is activated, if i release, regen stops
- so in theory i can press and release fast enough to play with the level of regen
- but that's not very efficient
- how about we build a simple circuit doing just that, it flips the BK pad on and off, at the right frequency and you could adjust the UP time.

Would this make the regen level changes ? or just blow up a hole in my underpants due to sudden LiPo explosion ?
 
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