VW 'Volkswagen Uses Software to increase Pollution'

[Lebowski]

bought this off of a friend today, perfect for calculating VW's fine, 16 digits !

 

[speedmd]

Things are progressing quickly.

VW pro-posses a cheap fix. Will it work? Better, but most likely a stall to stop the free fall.
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/whats-fix-volkswagens-defeat-device-experts-unsure-n434936
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/vw-refit-11m-diesel-vehicles-outfitted-cheating-software-n435516

Bosch warned them in 2007 not to do what they did.
http://blog.caranddriver.com/report-bosch-warned-vw-about-diesel-emissions-cheating-in-2007/

It just keeps getting deeper. Now commercial vehicles also.
http://www.dw.com/en/vw-18-million-commercial-vehicles-affected-by-emissions-cheat/a-18749574

You may need some more digits on that machine.

 

[Joseph C.]

The CO2 figures for diesel have to be called into question now in light of everything else.

All ICE for light transport needs to be taken off the roads by 2030. That's what we should be aiming towards. Diesel first and petrol next.

 

[Punx0r]

American emissions limits have always looked at pollutant concentrations only, and disregarded the gross quantity of those pollutants on a per minute or per mile basis. I believe that's intentional, to favor American gas guzzlers.

Perhaps an exception to the rule, but in the case of NOx it seems the U.S. uses a milligrams-per-mile standard.

Interesting perspective on vehicles exhausts while cycling. For me it's only diesels that bother me, lots of diesel cars running around with blocked air filters belching clouds of black smoke. Even in proper working order they're not great - the emissions testing is relatively lax (only a "visual" smoke test for many). Comparatively, petrol cars seem clean unless burning oil. Carbureted cars are very rare nowadays (corrosion culls most cars by 20 years of age), with the vast majority being multi-point fuel injected and subject to relatively stringent annual emissions testing.

 

[speedmd]

VW says fix for US cars more complex and not yet decided. Buy Back?

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/autos/vws-promised-fix-diesels-doesnt-apply-u-s-vehicles-source-n435746

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/29/volkswagen-emissions-technology-idUSL1N11Z1XQ20150929

They stripped them of the green car of the year medal also. DaaaaaH!

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/30/vw-stripped-of-green-car-of-the-year-awards-for-jetta-a3-diesel/

More legal woes.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/09/30/harris-county-texas-volkswagen-lawsuit/73083046/
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/30/vw-diesel-incentives-fuel-prosecutors-report/

 

[Hillhater]

why do i get this mental picture of a Fox hunt..?
the Fox (VW) being chased through the mud by a bunch of howling dogs ( Media) , whilst the Huntmasters ( EPA, Lawyers, etc) trot along behind waiting for the dogs to wear down their prey !!
As i said before, the only group that will benefit from this , will be the Lawyers !

 

[Monstarr]

They stripped them of the green car of the year medal also. DaaaaaH!

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/09/30/vw-stripped-of-green-car-of-the-year-awards-for-jetta-a3-diesel/

One could only think about the marketing advantages this, now apperently false, designation has had. And which very most likely has lead to thousands of extra car sales of these particular models over their competitors.
:?

 

[speedmd]

why do i get this mental picture of a Fox hunt..?

Not sure. I get more the picture below when most owners find what the college student in the linked article found out what this all did to her cars value. Agree the lawyers will get way too much out of this unless VW does the right thing. I would not hold my breath for that given the track record.
http://money.cnn.com/2015/09/28/news/volkswagen-emissions-scandal-customers/

 

[speedmd]

The picture VW does not want folks to see. :lol:

 

[bigmoose]

There should be a few PhD thesis in this debacle on irrational thought in corporations! I just read that VW produces one in 9 vehicles worldwide. Now how does a group of executives think that this kind of cheating can be kept from discovery? How in the world did they decide to do it for what, over 9 years?

It is one thing, though still immoral in my book, to weaken some component that is not regulated so that you can sell repairs and parts. So called scheduled and planned failures... but planning and implementing a systems design that cheats on one of the main tested parameters of an automobile? ... I just cannot phantom the deranged thinking, morals, and decisions of the VW decision makers.

 

[nutnspecial]

I like the question-first part. Hmmmm good point.

Maybe vw = another cog in machine
. . .an we = the mouse

Ps, speedmd, you seem to be getting way too excited about this too much hype, not enough rationality imo

 

[speedmd]

Yes nut, a bit excited when a lousy cheating company that has been screwing it's customers for decades gets caught red handed doing something this blatantly stupid. Your right, I should just grab a bag of popcorn and watch the show now. A horror show for certain.

 

[nutnspecial]

Do the crime, do the time, but I wouldn't feel cheated at all if I was a customer- maybe by the government tho.

In fact, it's the gov's, fed reserve, nasa, and biggest multinat corps I'd like to see in the hotseat.
Not a perfectly good, basically private (in comparison) car company.

 

[speedmd]

Nut, seriously? Your car is now (thankfully you don't own one)suddenly worth half (at best) what is was worth a month ago and you want to fault the government? Get a grip my friend. I would Turn off the talk radio. This is a crime of un measurable proportions and not a perfectly good private crooked affair.

 

[4LivesPerGallon]

The topic is completely wrong as they altered the software to REDUCE emissions (during testing which is cheating).
Of course it's wrong to do but it is common practise of american car maker's lobby to raise a big scandal around foreign car makers to push their sales. Next in line will be Toyota again i bet

IMO VW killed lots of people -- thousands, many thousands.

I consider them murderers, "gassing" us again.

 

[The fingers]

The topic is completely wrong as they altered the software to REDUCE emissions (during testing which is cheating).
Of course it's wrong to do but it is common practise of american car maker's lobby to raise a big scandal around foreign car makers to push their sales. Next in line will be Toyota again i bet

IMO VW killed lots of people -- thousands, many thousands.

I consider them murderers, "gassing" us again.

Honda brought this one out themselves. (Fess up ahead of time, before someone gets killed) A shrewd move. Major manufacturers must be checking all of their software and hardware a little more thoroughly; following the airbag fiasco, the floor mat bunching up under the accelerator tragedy, and this: :wink:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news...or-cvt/ar-AAf1VTb?li=AAa0dzB&ocid=mailsignout

 

[Punx0r]

Those recalls, which were serious safety issues didn't make a jot of difference to the resale value of the affected cars. Unless the U.S. govt says the affected VW's can't be driven on the roads then I doubt the resale will be affected much, if any. If VW fixes the emissions and as a consequence fuel economy drops by 5mpg then they likely won't make much difference, either. They'd still be way more economical than the average car on U.S. roads.

 

[speedmd]

With fixes that bring back a car to 100%, agree that will not effect value. That is not what is the case here with VW. Cars will most likely not perform as well, run as economically in both fuel economy and in exhaust system fluids use. They will most likely need to add urea systems on a boat load of them also which is not what folks signed up for originally. This is if they can even meet the spec once they do a thorough exam. It also kills the demand by exposing the myth of clean diesel and kill its niche market of young greenies. No longer cool to own / run one. Don't under estimate this factor and millage does not enter into it. It is huge in car buying here in the US. Don't see how they recover this.

It will make a good buying opportunity for young working folks needing a cheep ride if they can pass the new tests and get road certs. Blue book will show the resale results shortly. It will be a blood bath IMO. I will be surprised if they survive as VW. Most likely they will reorganize. The bad news just keeps coming.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/ap-analysis-dozens-deaths-vw-pollution-dodge-34220164

 

[Joseph C.]

Credit Suisse put the damages as high as €76 billion. I can see VW, or at least some of their divisions going bankrupt, and being rescued by German taxpayers.

http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/report-vw-scandal-could-cost-more-than-bps-deepwater-horizon-spill/

 

[John in CR]

Absolutely disgusting, but I chose to look at the silver lining. All is would take is a few whistleblowers to expose the immoral goings-on at other big car manufacturers, and it will hasten the conversion to electric. There's no doubt that they could easily produce low priced no frills electric cars with reasonable performance and range. They just won't, so let's hit some of them hard right where it counts, in the pocketbook. This one is so egregious that some people need to go to jail in addition to company fines.

 

[The fingers]

Diesel my be following in the tracks of the two-stroke. As for whistleblowing, ask anyone who's done it. Not a bed of roses, more like a crown of thorns.

 

[spinningmagnets]

As mentioned by another poster, the increase in NOx is only under specific conditions, and is a temporary state as the engine is sped up and slowed down. I state this to clarify that these diesels are not continuously spewing NOx.

I am not excusing their complicity, but I do hope to encourage some perspective. If VW was directed to produce a bio-diesel hybrid (as opposed to them simply paying a fine), I believe that would be a wonderful thing. In a hybrid vehicle, during the few times that the back-up engine is running...it runs at a continuous RPM. When run at a continuous RPM, any gasoline or diesel engine can very easily be made to run extra clean.

The info I have read about concerning solid state batteries (SSD's), is very exciting, and they should be readily available in 2020. This is good news for electric cars, and also for hybrids.

If a large cargo ship is delivering a full load of VW diesel cars, the bunker oil that the ship burns on that one trip will pollute FAR more than all the exhaust of all the VW diesels that it is delivering, for their entire lives. Hating on VW for their diesel pollution is like telling a fat person to lose weight by getting a haircut. VW diesels are not even in the top ten air polluters.

 

[speedmd]

It is more pronounced (NOx) (at least to my understanding) at high rpm - lean burn settings. Light throttle at highway speeds or when engine cylinder temp is hot and your running mostly air through it.

If you could recirculate much of the exhaust in these situations and feed just the minimum amount of air, it would run very low NOx levels.

Toyo system looks promising as a extender/ generator motor also.

 

[Chalo]

+1 spinningmagnets

To follow this coverage, you'd think that VW's motivation was to create pollution, or to break the law. But their motivation was actually to reduce fuel consumption and with it, CO2 emissions. They were doing what US automakers, for example, have basically refused to do, and they were doing it so intently that they cheated the testing system to get it done.

To be clear, I hate cars and look forward to the day that they fade from common use. But taking one of the most responsible players in the industry to the cleaners over their zealous efforts to reduce fuel consumption looks more like gangsterism than like acting in the public interest.

 

[Joseph C.]

No, their motivation was to save a few hundred euro per car. Using an adblue system would have set them back roughly 350 euro per car - simple greed.

Edit: I stand corrected. They apparently had the system installed but didn't want to deplete the urea and have to top it up.

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