Wind and Solar vs Coal, Gasoline, Nuclear

Hillhater said:
Note , that i said “World Leaders”..IE people capable of leading others to a better future.....not hat guy fron Mississippi chugging 7UP !
Yep. And if a US president decided that "lack of calories makes people starve - so double the calories to Americans! More is better!" then they'd be fools.
Lighting so they can function, read, lean, work, after dark.. a single light bulb can transform a child’s future !
Why what an excellent idea! So you are saying that for many people, a TINY amount of energy would transform their future? I agree! Thus the statement that more energy is always better is absurd.
 
Hillhater said:
Now you are just being an Ar5e !
How sad that you can no longer come up with a single intelligent argument.

Ah well. At least you can watch as the rest of us continue to build out renewables. Perhaps you can attack people like this next! Yet more people for you to mock for choosing solar over fossil fuels.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kensilverstein/2019/08/19/off-grid-solar-power-is-making-africas-emerging-economies-a-little-brighter/?sh=3e6ac3146cd3
 
JackFlorey said:
Hillhater said:
Now you are just being an Ar5e !
How sad that you can no longer come up with a single intelligent argument.
Yes, that exactly what i thought of your comments , and why i replied without bothering to sugar coat it !
I will think of you sat in the dark contemplating how much better off you are without fossil fuels.!
 
Richard Heinberg: "Meanwhile, communications media were evolving still further. While radio and television had a largely unifying effect during the 20th century, the internet and social media are proving to be disintegrative to consensus in the 21st. Algorithms capture users’ interests and prejudices and feed them news and opinion articles that lead them to have ever-more-extreme views."
" He was the first Twitter President. The Trump team’s communication strategy, in the immortal words of former top adviser Steve Bannon, was to “flood the zone with shit.” Disruption of consensus reality wasn’t a regrettable side effect of their efforts; it was a central goal."
"Cognitive dissonance—the holding of contradictory thoughts or beliefs—makes people miserable. And when a person’s own interpretation of reality runs counter to the consensus reality, some degree of paranoia or depression often results. Alternatively, a person unmoored from the dominant consensus may become a dedicated paradigm warrior intent on converting others to their own views, sometimes even by violence."
"The loss of consensus is therefore also problematic for society as a whole. People who have left the consensus behind may disregard or flout norms (such as longstanding informal rules with regard to elections and Congressional procedures). Society then becomes less capable of solving problems; and so, if economic, social, or environmental crises materialize, societal collapse of one sort or another becomes a real possibility. As individuals find themselves not just disagreeing on politics or religion, but living in different and directly conflicting mental universes, they individually experience cognitive pain and anguish. Families are torn apart, friendships severed. But the collective risks of consensus breakdown go deeper, and include the possibility of widespread rage, pushing society toward civil violence, coup, or state failure."
.
https://richardheinberg.com/museletter-334-2020-the-year-consensus-reality-fractured
.
 
https://bc.ctvnews.ca/train-cars-carrying-crude-oil-derail-burn-north-of-seattle-1.5242375
Train cars carrying crude oil derail, burn north of Seattle

Home to five oil refineries, Washington state sees millions of gallons of crude oil move by rail through the state each week, coming from North Dakota and Alberta, Canada, according to the state Department of Ecology.
 
THERE HAS NEVER been an official estimate of the cost of the Paris Agreement,
....nor has there been one that gives a meaningful evaluation of its impact.
......Looking at the numbers, it is obvious why.
“In 2007, New Zealand’s then Prime Minister, Helen Clark, declared her vision was that the small nation would become carbon neutral by 2020. She was celebrated by the United Nations as a “Champion of the Earth.”
....,,If only cutting carbon was as simple as winning attention.
......New Zealand not only failed to achieve the vision, but also failed even to reduce any emissions. The latest 2019 official statistics show that the country’s total emissions will be higher in 2020 than they were when Ms. Clark’s ambition was declared.
....Yet, in 2018, current Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern reupped the pledge, promising to achieve carbon neutrality by 2050. Legislation aimed at achieving that goal was passed in 2019.
.....to its credit, Ardern’s government actually asked its leading economic authority to estimate the cost of her promise. Thus, we have what is likely the only official, academically credible estimate of what it will cost to achieve carbon neutrality. This research, undertaken by the leading independent economic think tank in New Zealand, shows that just getting halfway to the target—cutting 50 percent of New Zealand’s emissions by 2050—would cost at least $19 billion annually by 2050. For a small country with a population similar to that of the Republic of Ireland or the state of South Carolina, that’s a big deal, about what the government spends now on its entire education and health care system.
And it is only the cheapest cost of getting halfway to Ardern’s target. Getting all the way will likely amount to more than $61 billion annually, or 16 percent of GDP by 2050. That is more than New Zealand today spends on social security, welfare, health, education, police, courts, defense, environment, and every other part of government combined.
To achieve their promise, New Zealanders will need to accept an escalating carbon tax that ends up so phenomenally high that it would be equivalent to a gasoline tax of $8.33 per gallon. And even the 16 percent GDP cost relies on a fairy-tale assumption that every single policy will be enacted as efficiently as possible. Bearing in mind the evidence that costs double in the real world, it could be 32 percent or more.
The cost doesn’t just start in 2050, which would make it easy to ignore. Getting there requires policies starting in 2020, meaning the costs will start coming in now, ramp up to 16–32 percent in 2050, and stay there for the rest of the century.
Across the century, the cost adds up to more than $5 trillion and could reach beyond $11 trillion. If we imagine each New Zealander paying an equal share of this amount every year across the century, the cost would be the equivalent of at least $12,800 for every single New Zealander, every year. If the policies are done badly, as they have been done so far across the globe, the cost per person could even go beyond $25,000 per year. !
.........”

Ref:-... False Alarm: How Climate Change Panic, Costs Us Trillions, Hurts the Poor, and Fails to Fix the Planet
 
Social inertia, a debt/ growth based economic system, and a selfish and underinformed elite class, has us caught in a "monkey trap" of self ( and worse yet for any other non-human species)-destructive system of ever increasing consumption.
 
USA moving away from renewables.. !
2018 data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration....(
This was a good year to use because there was a bit of a race on to build renewables before the subsidies stopped, which they were then scheduled to do.
The basic numbers, We are talking about electric power generating capacity,
in 2018 the USA built about ..
19,000 MW of gas fired generators,
9,000 MW of wind powered
and 7,000 MW of utility scale solar.
......and that is basic “Nameplate” capacities.
When you factor in real “Capacity Factors” ( quibble over the exact %’s ).. we see the realistic maximum capacities that can be expected..
Gas..15,000 MW
Wind ...4000 MW
Utility Solar...1,500 MW
So , the US installed approx 3 times the capacity of gas generation, compare to all wind and solar combined
Lets see if “Dopey Joe” and the GND actualy change anything to back up all their promises ?
( but we will have to wait until 2025 before any reliable “DATA” is available from the EIA ! )

62hrdF.jpg


And again , note that those figures are NAMEPLATE capacity, such that the 54 GW for Gas is a real 43 GW, and the 27.5GW for Wind is a real 10 GW ! Averaged output .
 
Hillhater said:
Ref:-... False Alarm: How Climate Change Panic, Costs Us Trillions, Hurts the Poor, and Fails to Fix the Planet
Meanwhile climate change is costing trillions every year - and that number will keep increasing.

Climate change deniers are like people who avoid going to the doctor for that big bleeding growth on their back because "they will just charge me an arm and a leg" - and then put it off until the pain becomes unbearable.
 
Ahh Jack !....such a wit !...you do come out with some interesting analogies. 1 :lol:
..but staying with your chosen theme... ..
..Climate change panic/alarmists are those folk who call an ambulance, admitt themselves for surgury to amputate both legs, to cure the pain caused by an INGROWN TOENAIL ! :roll:
( what they really needed is a Frontal Lobotomy ! )
 
On the gas nameplate capacity installation being so high - that's because JUST LIKE YOUR BEEF WITH SOLAR AND WIND the nameplate capacity is the maximum it can produce for short periods of time, and for the vast majority of the time, those gas peaker plants will be sitting around doing nothing.
 
..except in the USA they are not just Peaker plants.. they provide the bulk of the generation.
And their max output is only limited by the decisions of the operating authorities.
Why else would they be installing so much more gas capacity than RE ??
Texas is a good example..as it is the state with the most Wind generation capacity, (28 GW) , good wind reliability, and one of the highest wind Capacity factors in the USA ..(35-40%)
But.. last year wind generation contributed just 17% of electricity production (85 TWh), whilst Gas provided 50+ % ....with Coal and Nuclear at 25+% of the 500 TWh total
So, a little “disengenuous” to call them Gas Peaker plants , when they provide the vast majority of the generated power.
They certainly operate as “Back Up” to the Wind and Nuclear plants which always have priority, but even so still operate at over 50 % CF across the whole 65 GW installed Gas Capacity.
 
The report into the Astralian huge and devaststing bush fires in 2019/20, sited the “Significant contribution” of climate change to the severity of the fires.(but played down or failed to mention many other key factors ?)
Now , many International agencies, including the Australian BOM, are stating that 2020 was the hottest year on record !
.....So how is it in this hottest year leading into our bush fire season (Nov - Feb) there ore practically NO Significant bush fires ( 2, both minor and under control) in those same regeons that were so badly affected last season ?
My conclusion ?...
Maybe factors like, .. high fuel loads ( now gone) , hot dry Westerly desert winds, ( not present this year),..had more impact than “Global Warming”
.......”Weather” possibly, ,..but Climate change is obviously not the “significant contribution” its thought to be.?
 
Interesting article here showing the design potential of a hydrogen fuel cell airliner aircraft.

Ferrovial S A : Hydrogen-Powered Aircraft, the Path to More Sustainable Aviation
https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/ferrovial-s-a-hydrogen-powered-aircraft-the-path-to-more-sustainable-aviation/

propulsion-eng-e1611128964646.png


tanques-eng-e1611130156555.png


comparativa-alternativas-eng-e1611130471755.png


Hyperion XP1| CES Las Vegas 2021
Fuel-Cell super-car, this car is real, not a render, pretty cool looking!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmom7gfbtq4
[youtube]Jmom7gfbtq4[/youtube]

This is a lot of power for green hydrogen 88MW! I guess like Tesla every one is doing it super-sized these days... Build it and they will come! :eek:
First GreenHydrogen Project Becomes Reality: 88 Megawatt Water Electrolysis Plant in Canada-World’s first & most powerful electrolyzers for production of green hydrogen
https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/first-green-hydrogen-project-becomes-reality-thyssenkrupp-to-install-88-megawatt-water-electrolysis-plant-for-hydro-quebec-in-canada/

Fuel-cell drones continue to move into new industries.
https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/powering-innovation-worlds-first-commercialized-hydrogen-fuel-cell-powers-drones-for-humanitarian-missions/
https://www.eetimes.com/hydrogen-fuel-cell-powered-drones/
figure3-dmi-eet-jan.png
 
A little light on Facts there.
How do they propose to design and construct aircraft tanks for the extra volumes of high pressure (or liquified) Hydrogen, and what weight penalty does that imply ?
No one has yet demonstrated the ability og a combustion Turbine to run effectively, efficiently economically, let alone reliably or environmentally acceptably,..on Hydrogen !
If they opt to go with Electric (fuel Cell) propulsion, where will the 200 MW + of Fuel Cells and power systems be installed and again at what weight penalty ?
How will they address the safety concerns of the potential explosion effects from one or two hundred tons of hydrogen crashing in an urban areas, ? :shock:

But i must not be too negative ! :roll:
 
Punx0r said:
When are you people going to get the simple message that climate huge is a Word-wide issue that absolutely transcends national politics? Nobody gives a flying f**k if you're a supporter of the Australian Labour Party, the US Republicans or anything else. I suppose it's very hard for some people not to let their personal political views to colour every thought they ever have.

+1

Those hooked on conspiracy addiction all seek the same thing: their 15 minutes of fame.

M
 
TheBeastie said:
Hyperion XP1| CES Las Vegas 2021
Fuel-Cell super-car, this car is real, not a render, pretty cool looking!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmom7gfbtq4

You have to be kidding. That "video" is 100% computer drawn. C'mon man.

M
 
MJSfoto1956 said:
Punx0r said:
When are you people going to get the simple message that climate huge is a Word-wide issue that absolutely transcends national politics?......
+1
Those hooked on conspiracy addiction all seek the same thing: their 15 minutes of fame.
The only ones i see hooked on a conspiracy, are those being fooled into thinking Climate Change is a man made situation.
When will those people accept that it is a totally natural variation,.. seem many times in history, and unaffected by anything you, I , Musk, USA, or China,...may try to influence it.!
 
Hillhater said:
..Climate change panic/alarmists are those folk who call an ambulance, admitt themselves for surgury to amputate both legs, to cure the pain caused by an INGROWN TOENAIL !
Yep. Much better to deny that there's a problem until the toe gets infected, becomes gangrenous, spreads to your leg, and then you find out the leg has to be amputated. Then deniers can just blame their missing leg on Al Gore. "It's a COMPLETE COINCIDENCE that that ingrown toenail got infected and then the infection spread! And I absolutely did not have any responsibility to do anything about it. Germs aren't real! Infections aren't real! Gangrene isn't real! It's all the mainstream media with their hysterical claims about how germs are bad, Al Gore cut my leg off."

Remember, the most important thing is to shirk any responsibility for your problem and blame someone else.
 
This post has long deserved a place in OTD since a majority of it is non-technical in nature and more political in nature.

Moved.
 
It's just a shame it's dead for moving here, some of it was good. It no longer appears in the active topics, right?

(What did you do to Al Gore to make him cut your leg off? Al Gore doesn't do that for no reason.)
 
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