HESC V1 150v 600Amp VESC based motor controller

[A-DamW]

Not an expert here, I do have several vesc's, and I use them.
The only real limits are how the hardware is configured and how the OPEN SOURCE software is configured.

 

[Teslafly]

Does anyone have more information on the c350 and c700?
The c350 seems to be a bit optimistic with it's phase amps considering it has 8awg output wires and 2x 12awg input.

Looking to power a ME1117. (http://www.motenergy.com/me1117.html)
The c350 seems like it may be a good fit, if slightly small. The c700 will definitely power it but the 21s version isn't available and it's 2x the cost.

Does anyone know what mosfets and # of fets are used so I can ballpark the losses numbers? Knowing what size of heatsink to attach this too would be nice.

 

[j bjork]

Are there any people here with experience with 3shul motors?
I sent some questions using the form on the webbpage and got a response the day after.
I then replied on that with some more questions but didnt get a reply in 2 weeks.
I tried sending the same mail with a little extra note again, but no answer in a few days.

What are your experience with getting replies from them?
I also tried clicking on preorder to see where it would lead.
But they wanted my bankcard numbers right away, I didnt really feel comfortable giving them already.

 

[j bjork]

This guy didnt know what encoder he had, and ran sensorless.
To get better starting torque he tried to use HFI, but ended up (probably) blowing a mosfet:

Electric Motorcycle Builds | Update on the 3shul cl700 | Facebook

Update on the 3shul cl700. Could not get it running smoothly enough in sensorless mode and nobody in the vesc community seems to know much about encoders. So , I went ahead and tried to tune it on...

www.facebook.com

Im thinking the overcurrent protection should cut before that happens, what do you think?
Maybe it is to much possibilities, like the overcurrent set to high, maybe other tuning "possibilities" to bypass the protection?

 

[DEHiCKA]

VESC does not have true high speed hardware OC protection. Only software control loop one, witch is at least half or equal PWM frequency reaction time.
Badly tuned VESC or bad hardware design can blow-up if the connected motor winding current is capable to rise quick enough to escape mosfets SOA.

 

[mxlemming]

VESC does not have true high speed hardware OC protection. Only software control loop one, witch is at least half or equal PWM frequency reaction time.
Badly tuned VESC or bad hardware design can blow-up if the connected motor winding current is capable to rise quick enough to escape mosfets SOA.

Hardware overcurrent protection is not a function of VESC. That's a ridiculous statement complaining that software doesn't include hardware overcurrent protection. That's why it's called... Hardware overcurrent protection.

I understand the 3shul controllers do have hardware protection, but it's impossible to make it failsafe against all eventualities, especially heavy field weakening or commanding insane switching rates that hold the MOSFETs in the linear region. It's also impossible for it to protect against certain user errors like connecting high voltage things to io, reverse battery connection, dropping metal parts on the pcb... Etc... And it's also not protection against unfortunate random component failures or bad design elsewhere.

 

[j bjork]

It is mainly the possibility of "bad design" that worries me. Not very funny to find out after paying $1600+shipping+import fees and taxes.

 

[DEHiCKA]

Hardware overcurrent protection is not a function of VESC. That's a ridiculous statement complaining that software doesn't include hardware overcurrent protection. That's why it's called... Hardware overcurrent protection.

Obviously, hardware protection means VESC hardware designs, not VESC software. Prove me wrong, but I have not seen a single VESC design with hardware OC protection. It won't protect against everything, but I have seen industrial controllers that can catch phase shorts without a damage.

It is mainly the possibility of "bad design" that worries me. Not very funny to find out after paying $1600+shipping+import fees and taxes.

That is my exact reasoning to wait until I see at least some heavy load tests from an independent party.

 

[mxlemming]

Obviously, hardware protection means VESC hardware designs, not VESC software. Prove me wrong, but I have not seen a single VESC design with hardware OC protection. It won't protect against everything, but I have seen industrial controllers that can catch phase shorts without a damage.

That is my exact reasoning to wait until I see at least some heavy load tests from an independent party.

Every VESC board I've ever made
Mp2
This range of shul controllers from hackey
Techaumnus a200s and a400s
Axiom
Luna cycles designs
Probably far more. That's just from memory.

 

[DEHiCKA]

Every VESC board I've ever made
Mp2
This range of shul controllers from hackey
Techaumnus a200s and a400s
Axiom
Luna cycles designs
Probably far more. That's just from memory.

Sorry, I was wrong then. I have only seen original VESC hardware schematics.

 

[artofgene]

While connecting motors to the cl1000 and going through the Setup Motors FOC with VESC TOOL, I am getting the following failure message: 'VESC disconnected during detection' Can you help?

 

[eee291]

Are you connected via Bluetooth or USB?
You could also manually detect the motor values.

 

[artofgene]

Are you connected via Bluetooth or USB?
You could also manually detect the motor values.

I've connected it via USB and will try the method you suggested.
Thanks.

 

[JRP3]

Do these controllers handle the pre-charge circuit internally or do you need to add one?

 

[j bjork]

I asked about contactor control, and it seems to be possible to use the extra outputs for contactor and pre charge control. So I would think that means no built in pre charge.

 

[Powervelocity.com]

Good discussion on the pre-charge and the contactor here: Active pre-charge/inrush control
I think we are close to making it work.

 

[Hummina Shadeeba]

I got the cl350!
Could the capacitors being in contact on one side be dangerous if vibrated too much? One side there’s a small gap and the other there’s contact.

It will be hugely underpowered with using this small motor wound to only I think 36kv

MP83100 8kw Brushless Motor with Watercooling System for Electric Jetb

MP83100 8kw Brushless Motor (can be with Watercooling System) for Electric Jetboard 1)Specifications: Motor: MP83100 Kv: 256 Motor type: watercooling version Motor power: 8kw Idle current(10A) 6.2A Resistance: 0.009Ohm Inductance: 15uh Winding:36pcs 0.34mm one strand and four turns RPM...

www.freerchobby.cc

I will move the cl350 to a worthy small motorcycle in the future. (When I figure out why (3) 75100 flipsky escs only put out about 20 amps then stutter. (1) popped to smoke after 3 months but was good till then.

 

[JRP3]

Could the capacitors being in contact on one side be dangerous if vibrated too much? One side there’s a small gap and the other there’s contact.

I'd try to slide a thin piece of plastic in there just to be safe.

 

[eee291]

I'm using a 75100 AL PCB on a mower deck. When cold it can pull over 70A battery. When it gets really hot it'll drop to 18A or so.

I noticed that some default settings on both the cl350 and flipsky are less than ideal, in my experience.

 

[ganzey]

I got the cl350!
Could the capacitors being in contact on one side be dangerous if vibrated too much? One side there’s a small gap and the other there’s contact.

It will be hugely underpowered with using this small motor wound to only I think 36kv

MP83100 8kw Brushless Motor with Watercooling System for Electric Jetb

MP83100 8kw Brushless Motor (can be with Watercooling System) for Electric Jetboard 1)Specifications: Motor: MP83100 Kv: 256 Motor type: watercooling version Motor power: 8kw Idle current(10A) 6.2A Resistance: 0.009Ohm Inductance: 15uh Winding:36pcs 0.34mm one strand and four turns RPM...

www.freerchobby.cc

I will move the cl350 to a worthy small motorcycle in the future. (When I figure out why (3) 75100 flipsky escs only put out about 20 amps then stutter. (1) popped to smoke after 3 months but was good till then.

View attachment 334614

I noticed that on mine too, probably wont be an issue, but my ocd got the best of me. Unsoldered the cap boards so i could detatch the epoxy holding them to the logic board and moved them up a tiny bit, also resoldered them/pushed them in just enough so they arent touching the logic board, rewrapped the caps and conformal coated everything, and some neutral silicone to keep caps secure. lid still fits with them like this

 

[Hummina Shadeeba]

I noticed that on mine too, probably wont be an issue, but my ocd got the best of me. Unsoldered the cap boards so i could detatch the epoxy holding them to the logic board and moved them up a tiny bit, also resoldered them/pushed them in just enough so they arent touching the logic board, rewrapped the caps and conformal coated everything, and some neutral silicone to keep caps secure. lid still fits with them like this

Mine the logic board isn’t glued and just held on by its pin connection

I plan to slip plastic under the caps and soft silicone glue all around unless someone tells me otherwise

 

[ganzey]

Mine the logic board isn’t glued and just held on by its pin connection

I plan to slip plastic under the caps and soft silicone glue all around unless someone tells me otherwise

Yea mine wasnt either, i meant the glue holding the caps to the board. I slipped some fishing line under the caps and worked it back and forth like a saw, then used boat loads of solder wick to pull the cap boards off. Dont think i could fit anything under them they were solid contact with the screws holding the power stage to the heatsink.

 

[ganzey]

Mine the logic board isn’t glued and just held on by its pin connection

I plan to slip plastic under the caps and soft silicone glue all around unless someone tells me otherwise

Ohhh i just realized you have a cl350, mine is a c350. Taller caps. glue removed from left side, still holding right side caps to the board.

 

[Powervelocity.com]

You can add PV NextGen design to that list: it has had the hardware overcurrent and overvoltage protection from day one.
It's not that hard or expensive to implement, just a few comparators and proper gate drivers that have disable pins. It saved me quite a few power stages from blowing up while testing as, obviously, software-based protections while being pretty good when MCU runs fine, don't trigger when the code crashes or restarts. And that's not an uncommon occurrence when hundreds of amps pushed in close proximity to sensitive circuits, sharing the same ground, and the power supply.

Every VESC board I've ever made
Mp2
This range of shul controllers from hackey
Techaumnus a200s and a400s
Axiom
Luna cycles designs
Probably far more. That's just from memory.

 

[mxlemming]

You can add PV NextGen design to that list: it has had the hardware overcurrent and overvoltage protection from day one.
It's not that hard or expensive to implement, just a few comparators and proper gate drivers that have disable pins. It saved me quite a few power stages from blowing up while testing as, obviously, software-based protections while being pretty good when MCU runs fine, don't trigger when the code crashes or restarts. And that's not an uncommon occurrence when hundreds of amps pushed in close proximity to sensitive circuits, sharing the same ground, and the power supply.

Couldn't agree more. It's literally 30p of comparators and a few resistors and caps. You don't even need the special gate drivers if you use the stm hardware break input. Inexcusable to not have it IMO.

On the mp2 open source project we have a really really crude one using diodes and a leftover opamp channel. 3 different users have had their boards saved by it during bring up (solder bridge errors and one with blown gate resistors?!?), 2 of them chose to disable the hardware over current protection and were immediately greeted with a collection of dead fets or capacitors with the legs blown off.

So good work shul and power velocity for implementing it.

If only it worked against field weakening related errors...