Manufacturers and dealers to avoid

[swbluto]

You seem to be a window for us ESers as to the activities in China. I, for one, was kind of hoping that Hi-Power was legitimate and wondered why their products weren't more available.

 

[kazbluesky2]

Actually you sent me not 1 but TWO used and broken batteries and I sent you photographic evidence to prove it.

http://goldenmotor.com/SMF/index.php?topic=346.0

And just because you bought batteries from a supplier that sucked doesn't mean that you have a right to sell those 'sucky' batteries on to us. You are responsible for the things you sell not the supplier.



I thought we'd been through all this in the Gloden Motor Manufacturer thread?

You apologised, we moved on - but now your back trying to rewrite history again.

 

[Reid Welch]

former content cleared, with empathy sent for bobby, the victim.

r.

 

[swbluto]

You apologised, we moved on - but now your back trying to rewrite history again.

Yes. And also ebikes.ca also received used motors from Golden Motors, so I definitely wouldn't trust this rewritten review of history.

 

[Reid Welch]

GOLDEN MOTORS - avoid like the plague!!!!

Let me tell you my story. In August I ordered the 500 whatt Motor kit (including battery) from Golden Motor. They took my money immediately, then sent me 2 USED broken batteries in a row. After about a month of arguing (politely) I started a dispute with Paypal with GM and asked them to tell me when they sent my motor because that hadn't arrived either. After not bothering to reply to six paypal emails they finally said , "There are no 700c wheels in China so we can't send you a motor." China is the bicycle capitol of the planet - no 700c wheels - bollocks!! So, they took my money when they knew they couldn't fill my order, their site says they sell 700c wheels though (that's why I ordered), knowing they couldn't send me the GM kit they still sent me batteries to use for a kit they couldn't send me, and then to add insult injury they send me USED BROKEN batteries!!!!! Finally they say they will give me 745 dollars of the 840 I paid because of they wanted to charge me for shipping. So now I have two used pieces of junk that, here in Japan, I have to pay to get taken away!!!!

So, Golden Motor sux in my view beyond any possibility of redemption. I know some people are happy with their golden Motors, all I can say is that they were lucky that the parts they received were probably stripped from bikes that had problems with their bells or something.

I'm not attacking Ampedbikes or Ping here, I hear good things about them, I'm talking about the company Golden Motor and Philip.

If you have any doubts about this scammy little company (6 million dollars total net worth - think about it (actually I don't even believe that)) then go to the Golden Motor forum and see how many other people are furious with them too.

I'm off for a beer....I'm pissed off, I might as well be pissed too!!!

PS It's amazing that they have got me this disgusted and pissed off, nothing usually pisses me off, I give people a lot of latitude, I've never had this kind of problem in years and years of buying online - so if they can piss even me off, it would turn any normal person into a raving knife maniac!!

AVOID - Don't even think about it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just read this and I'm not even past that page-whatever.

AM SO GLAD that I paid "top dollar" and got goods from firms who stand behind their merchandise.
Ping is a king.
Justin is just.

I'm penniless and disabled. I'm still glad I scrounged the money to get top quality, guaranteed merchandise from vendors who I'd trust my life to. They are faultless.

r.

 

[Reid Welch]

PS: Golden Motor, this is your time to make good for all damaged customers;
it wasn't your fault. But it was your fault: you are the retailer. You are responsible, or suffer the consequences.

Everything can be repaired but for death...and loss of trust and honour...but you can do the latter, imo: repair the customers in full and give them gifts and apologies besides.

Nothing hurts more than to be skinned alive. Life is tough here too.

r.

+++++++++++++++++++++

PS: We are honoured that Golden Motor even applies to threads like this.
It is a sign of good faith.

Fact: the maker is subjugant to his parts suppliers. He buys in huge bulk.
When a run of parts or assemblies goes bad: he (Golden Motor here) is stuck
with an immensely costly problem. What can they do?
I think they must do what they can afford to do.
It is a terribly difficult market in which to make a good, profitable product.

I am glad I paid "top dollar" for my motor.
I sleep well at night. Life is so hard for almost all of us.
I am in sympathy with Golden Motor, and glad they participate in this open forum.

r.

 

[GoldenMotor]

yes we are trying our best

 

[317537]

I own 2 golden motor hubs. They are an awesome hub for what I paid. The engineering in theory is sound however yes every one experienced issues.

The first hub was sound, and I munged the wires. The second hub the centre of the axle is out of whack. So a a thin washer and a heat treated nut solved the problems. I want to put a three gear cassette on it anyway, Problem adequately solved. Possibly some designed for three cassette sprocket and some for 5 and golden was only supplied with 5 cassettes.

Just a guess.

One issue is the direct drive on these BL hubs gives spikes pretty hard directly to batteries and small AGMS seem to take a beating.

I'm finding the Ritar 24 ah gel batteries with EV-series are delivering as promised and anything standard AGM gets slaughtered by these hubs regen they put out. I think the one to one drive and battery has issues with bumps you hit. Doink!

Other than everything else. Only evil will become of this thread, Mods!

 

[Mick46]

I agree with the extreme scooters as one manufacturer to avoid. I bought a 2007 Schwinn 1000w "extreme scooter" with a Curry motor
only to have it crap out within 5 months. Truth is, I only rode it up/down the street and in my yard 1/2 the time. What a POS!

 

[Gregte]

I just ordered a DIY eBike kit from Golden Motors a couple days ago. Can anyone tell me when I might expect to receive it? I emailed Golden Motors with this question but have not yet recieived a reply.

 

[Gregte]

After emailing Golden Motor several times over the last few days I have discovered that they will not email me back and respond to my questions regarding delivery. They already have my money via PayPal but are no longer interested in me it appears.

Can anybody here advise me as to what steps I should take if my merchandise does not arrive in 8 business days? I hate to go through legal channels quite yet so I'm hoping someone here can tell me from experience the best way to get results with this company and Philip Yao. He seems to be the one who corresponds via email.

Thank you in advance for any advice.

Greg

EDIT: BE SURE TO SEE ONE OF MY LAST POSTS REGARDING MY ISSUE. IT HAS SOME 'BULLETED' LINES NEAR THE END AND I BELIEVE IS NEAR THE END OF PAGE 5. I can't see where these posts are numbered as they are on some forums.

 

[Lessss]

DEFINATELY displute it through paypay before 45 days

 

[Gregte]

Golden Motors has not yet committed a crime since the 10 days for delivery is not up (actually, to my friend's query, Philip says 5-8 days, not 10). But it appears as though they have no intention of delivering the merchandise because they will not respond to my emails inquiring about delivery, only the ones inquiring about purchasing items.

I do know that they are getting my emails and reading them because they do respond to emails from a friend of mine. This friend has only been inquiring about making a purchase. GM is very quick to respond to emails of that nature but simply does not respond if you have already paid them the big bucks and are asking when the merchandise will be delivered.

I have been thru this kind of deal before once where I finally got my money back after I showed the seller that he was pretty much going to be out of business if he did not return my money. The whole ordeal was kind of fun actually, but I never did get my merchandise that I wanted in the first place, just got my money back.

So, I will give Philip a few more days just to be legal and then set things in motion. I really had hoped he would come thru, and maybe he will, but he has not yet shown any evidence that he intends to deliver.

Anyway, thanks for the advise. I will monitor this thread and watch for more suggestions, and as I say GM still has a few more days to get the DIY ebike kit on my doorstep.

But to be a bit more ON topic, can anybody advise me of a stateside online store where I can order an ebike kit, some place that is known to be repeatedly reputable and honest?

EDIT: BE SURE TO SEE ONE OF MY LAST POSTS REGARDING MY ISSUE. IT HAS SOME 'BULLETED' LINES NEAR THE END AND I BELIEVE IS NEAR THE END OF PAGE 5. I can't see where these posts are numbered as they are on some forums.

 

[cloudhands]

I just ordered a BMC kit from cycle9. Still to be shipped, but I ordered from them based on hearing good things.

Last year I ordered a bionx from nycewheels.com, and they are responsive and supportive in every way. I'd give nycewheels an 11 on a 1-10 scale. I didn't order from them this year because they don't seem to sell any kits without a battery, and I wanted to get a high capacity LiFePO4 from Ping. Also nycewheels doesn't have much depth in their selection of kits, and nothing besides the bionx (and curry) for a rear motor.

 

[kazbluesky2]

Im no friend to GM (just check my posts) but I think you will get your items eventually. As to their replying (or rather not replying once they have your money) well, that's GM.

If you are unhappy start a dispute with paypal asap - that's the only way I could get Philip to communicate with me. Then if they try to shaft you by not paying you back all your money, post what's happened here. lt took me 6 months of telling the truth and so ruining their reputation (and costing them an outrageous amount of money in lost orders I hope and believe) for them to finally give me all my money back.

Doesn't surprise me to see that despite the GM PR (read: snow job) that's presently going on on the forum, that in fact, where it counts, they are still up to their old tricks.

Try Ampedbikes, their product is good, their service good, they answer your emails, they speak English and if you are unhappy with them they are based in a country where you can take government and legal action against them (the US).

 

[Gregte]

Im no friend to GM (just check my posts) but I think you will get your items eventually. As to their replying (or rather not replying once they have your money) well, that's GM.

Thanks for the response. However, if I don't get my stuff in the 5 to 10 day time frame as advertised to me and also to my friend I will not be getting it eventually either because I intend to put them out of business. There is no room for this kind of business in todays world.

Also, I just order a kit minus battery from Ampedbikes. I had emailed them earlier today and have already gotten a response. I can tell that this is a legitimate business. He said he did not have any batteries in stock other than SLA so I am now in pursuit of a good lithium battery.

EDIT: BE SURE TO SEE ONE OF MY LAST POSTS REGARDING MY ISSUE. IT HAS SOME 'BULLETED' LINES NEAR THE END AND I BELIEVE IS NEAR THE END OF PAGE 5. I can't see where these posts are numbered as they are on some forums.

 

[GoldenMotor]

Did it happen?

 

[ecowheelz]

How do you intend to put us out of business? Hahaha...

If you prefer buying from AmpedBikes, be my guest. We will not hesitate to refund your money if you really need that few hundred dollars so badly. However don't come and tell me how your product failed and stuff because we now require evidence for each refund. Thank you very much!

What a great response... customer service definitely appears to be a priority at GM! :wink:

 

[swbluto]

How do you intend to put us out of business? Hahaha...

If you prefer buying from AmpedBikes, be my guest. We will not hesitate to refund your money if you really need that few hundred dollars so badly. However don't come and tell me how your product failed and stuff because we now require evidence for each refund. Thank you very much!

What a great response... customer service definitely appears to be a priority at GM! :wink:

I know, doesn't it?

Nothing says customer service better than "If we screwed your order, there's nothing you can do about it.".

 

[Gregte]

If you prefer buying from AmpedBikes, be my guest. We will not hesitate to refund your money if you really need that few hundred dollars so badly. However don't come and tell me how your product failed and stuff because we now require evidence for each refund. Thank you very much!

Have a nice day,

Golden Motor,

I have sent you an email requesting my money back as you have stated I could do, on this forum. I included the PayPal transaction ID and all the specifics of the kit I had ordered.

Please do not hesitate to email me and ask if there is anything you do not understand regarding my request. I will be watching both my email inbox for any correspondence from you and my PayPal account for the refund of the payment I made to Golden Motor. Thank you.

Gregte

EDIT: BE SURE TO SEE ONE OF MY LAST POSTS REGARDING MY ISSUE. IT HAS SOME 'BULLETED' LINES NEAR THE END AND I BELIEVE IS NEAR THE END OF PAGE 5. I can't see where these posts are numbered as they are on some forums.

 

[GoldenMotor]

Yes, although i'm a GM rep, i am a human being too, i won't be able to hold up with all of your complaints over minor issues and stuff single handedly. So if you have something to say, please e-mail me directly at yaoyuan@goldenmotor.com

Scold me, flame me, whatever, just get to the point. I prefer it this way, and not writing long emails explaining stuff.

Also, if you really think our customer service is bad, maybe I should just ignore all of you and sit behind my computer, just like what we used to do a long time ago. If you are not happy about it you can just flame my e-mail inbox. Good luck! Hope you all feel better after scolding GM directly in their face and not gossip about it in the forums.

 

[dnmun]

it does seem to be in bad taste to publicly humiliate mr yao if he has asked for you to communicate with him directly. why did you decide to not use the goldenmotor after you agreed to do so? i don't know of any seller that does that, allowing you to just refuse an order and demand your money back after you order it. usually it is right there in the big fine print, so what changed your mind?

they did this to brett too, trying to humiliate him into doing something beyond his control now.

since so much is being dumped on goldenmotor here, i would like to observe that the direct drive motor i have open now seems well constructed, simple but sufficient for a 24mm wide stator pole. the halls sensors are wired to a small pcb with a noise suppression cap on the supply voltage, a surface mount cap, seemed more considered than others because others don't add the cap to the supply rail.

i did force in some larger 12G phase wire i picked up from a dumpster and have to replace the hall sensors because the motor spun out and twisted off the wires.

but i bot it broke so i could push the big phase wires in there, just hoped the hall sensors didn't get ruined.

for yao, this is the lesson i have learned about the design: when the wires twisted off (because the motor spun out of the forks because the guy was stuck trying to use the little torque washers, with no education about filing down the lawyers lips or how to install the kit. another words, just like the guys ranting at you now), the hall sensor wires shorted out to the phase or power wires and burned out the hall sensors.

this requires that i: remove the original hall sensors, replace with new, resolder back into the little pcb marked T6 and then reconnect it all, and then seal it with silicon, and tied down to the frame inside the motor again, just to fix the problem caused by the wires shorting out.

a lotta hassle, mosta these guys would not do it.

however you can fix it before it happens, adding great value to your motor.

#1. fix the problem of inadequate torque arm to prevent the spin out, and no education in the DIY installer about the problems created by the lawyers lips and the failure of these guys to get the axle properly seated as deep as possible in the dropout. i have promised to post up pictures of how to file and where as well as why so i can do that here. later.

#2. when the hall sensor wires shorted out on the phase wires the current draw on the hall sensors burned out the transistor in the hall sensor (honeywell SS41 knockoff in your motor) and that is why i had to take the hub apart.

since you already have the pcb marked T6, you could add a surface mount resistor on a newly designed T6 board between the solder through hole for the hall sensor ouput leg, and the terminal point for where the hall sensor wire is soldered onto the pcb adjacent the through hole. if you had a 470 ohm surface mount resistor there, (easily done since you have the surface mount capacitor installed on the pcb already so you could install the surface mount resistor at the same time), then that resistor inline from the hall sensor would block the huge current flow out of the sensor when it is shorted and would protect the hall sensor so it doesn't have to be replaced.

i just learned this from reading richard's comments about how they fail. the hall sensor output leg is the only leg of the hall sensor that you need the surface mount resistor on, your engineers can figure how big a resistor and how it will effect the controller's processor input as well as being large enuff to prevent the hall sensor output transistor from blowing.

then the hubmotor could be repaired without ever opening the case, by just soldering the broken wires together outside, a simple repair, otherwise the customer would not pay someone to repair it like i am doing because it would cost too much. i got it half price because it was spun out, but i wanted that since i expected to open the hub anyway to replace the phase wires with larger wires.

so doing those 2 things would change the statistics of 'catastrophic' failures and completely change your warranty repair profile, or the number of people demanding their money back when they can't go anymore, since they will blame you.

i hope this helps you in your business, i think your modern management education allows you to be aware of how solving these kinda problems is what creates the most value for your effort to improve the brand. effective management. use your time wisely and don't waste it arguing with the customers because you have hired other people to do that. jmho.

and don't use the GM label. it is now cursed.

Goldenmotor 36V 500W is fine, the 'Magic Dragon' motor.

mine will be just a little more powerful than stock. more efficient and cooler phase wires. but i used solid wire, you cannot do that since you have to sell a kit which needs to be compact for shipping and the wires are folded up and twisted so you need to use stranded.

 

[Gregte]

it does seem to be in bad taste to publicly humiliate mr yao if he has asked for you to communicate with him directly.

He did NOT ask me to communicate with him directly. He did not respond to my multiple emails. That is why I brought the issue to this forum.

why did you decide to not use the goldenmotor after you agreed to do so? i don't know of any seller that does that, allowing you to just refuse an order and demand your money back after you order it. usually it is right there in the big fine print, so what changed your mind?

I never made that decision. I ordered an ebike kit from Ampedbikes but that does NOT mean that I decided to not take receipt of the Golden Motor order I had already place. Please do not make assumptions. I am just trying to get an ebike kit as quicky as I can and Golden Motor had not responded to ANY of my multiple emails asking when I might expect delivery. As I had stated (look further back in this thread) Golden Motor had not committed any crime at the time of said statement, and I would not do anything about it until 10 days after the promised shipping date had expired if I had not received my merchandise by then.

The title of this thread is "Manufacturers to avoid". The reason that I started posting here, and will continue to do so regarding my issue with GM, is that it seems to me to be very relevant to the thread's title.

As of this posting, I have received an email from GM regarding my most recent email to GM and regarding comments that have been made on this thread. I do not intend to do anything more than to present FACTS about my case to this forum in as much as they apply to the topic of this very thread. The purpose of this thread is to help inform the ebike community of our individual experiences with ebike suppliers. I intend to do exactly that. I appreciate when anyone warns me of something they consider to be a bad deal or business place to avoid.

I have already paid a large sum of money and I expect to receive the service and merchandise that is expected. So far the service has been less than desirable. That can be rectified to a great extent but you cannot 'un-ring a bell' either.

I intend to report back to the ebike community, on this forum and on others, relating my experiences, good and bad, that I have with suppliers of ebikes and ebike kits and parts. In keeping with the spirit of this thread I hope others will do the same.

EDIT: BE SURE TO SEE ONE OF MY LAST POSTS REGARDING MY ISSUE. IT HAS SOME 'BULLETED' LINES NEAR THE END AND I BELIEVE IS NEAR THE END OF PAGE 5. I can't see where these posts are numbered as they are on some forums.

 

[kazbluesky2]

Gregte,

Just keep telling the truth of what happened and what happens. If you feel that that you've been badly treated then tell about it - that's the purpose of this thread.

Don't let people try to shut you up. You're saving others on the board a drop into a stake-pit.

You're right to complain if the service sucks AFTER you pay your money - surely this speaks more honestly about the true nature of GM company values than the PR spin that's been going on.

It's been amazing me that Brett White has been taking a beating (and rightly so) over ripping off maybe 10 or 20 people and then you have GM who have been doing worse, for longer, to maybe hundreds (maybe thousands!). Yet people are giving GM a get-out-of-jail-free-card because they are dangling new, better (supposedly) products before our eyes and letting us have imput over the name of the next piece of kit GM want to sell us.

It's strange, .........no?

 

[Anonymous]

.