Update to version 1.0.0 or ask on another thread.winwar84 said:hello, with firmware 0.20.0 I soldered the temperature sensor to the controller. can I eliminate it and use the same cables to put the accelerator? thanks
One of the benefits of the ANT+/BTLE project that Casainho is working on would be the ability to move the %SOC tracking to a SmartBMS and read that value over the Bluetooth connection into the NRF PCB... Full %SOC tracking would then be possible on charge and discharge.vshitikov said:izeman said:I'm just doing it. One more question: Does the firmware build an internal table to compare voltage and SOC once it's done one full cycle? Or do you need to always recharge it to reset to counter and set SOC to 100%? What I mean: Will the SOC% be accurate even if i only charge, let's say from 20% to 70% (after the initial charge/discharge)? I guess so?!casainho said:Yes, go ahead and improve the information that could help you and then it will help the next ones.
I don't think it will be accurate. The firmware waits till the voltage crosses the threshold, that you have configured, to reset the gauge to 100%. If you didn't reach the threshold while charging the firmware will keep substracting Watt hours and will show 0%. So you must recharge it fully to reset the counter. If you don't want to fully recharge the battery - say 90%, you may set your threshold lower so it resets while charged to 90%.
This handling is not ideal but I guess it's the only one possible if you don't have a smart BMS that communicates with your display.
I use the Bluetooth SmartBMS on some of my bicycles and sometimes it is really important to check how is the voltage of each cells. I had issues before with my battery pack or TSDZ2 and looking at that information is important. This BMS also logs the voltages and currents, it is nice to see the history when trying to debug the issues I had.HughF said:One of the benefits of the ANT+/BTLE project that Casainho is working on would be the ability to move the %SOC tracking to a SmartBMS and read that value over the Bluetooth connection into the NRF PCB... Full %SOC tracking would then be possible on charge and discharge.
I am about to build a new battery pack and will use the Bluetooth smart bms.casainho said:I use the Bluetooth SmartBMS on some of my bicycles and sometimes it is really important to check how is the voltage of each cells. I had issues before with my battery pack or TSDZ2 and looking at that information is important. This BMS also logs the voltages and currents, it is nice to see the history when trying to debug the issues I had.HughF said:One of the benefits of the ANT+/BTLE project that Casainho is working on would be the ability to move the %SOC tracking to a SmartBMS and read that value over the Bluetooth connection into the NRF PCB... Full %SOC tracking would then be possible on charge and discharge.
Theoretically the ANT+/BLE could connect to this cheap and popular BMS and have this information, SOC, disable the battery power, etc, and show to user on the display or mobile phone.
I'm not sure how using the BMS' information to determine SOC would help. Eg the BT SmartBMS that I have installed on most of my batteries (and the one that's refered here too) as well isn't very good at SOC determination either. YOU have to enter cell voltage values for 100%, 80%,60%,40%, 20% and 0%. Those are then used to build the graph you see on the main page.casainho said:I use the Bluetooth SmartBMS on some of my bicycles and sometimes it is really important to check how is the voltage of each cells. I had issues before with my battery pack or TSDZ2 and looking at that information is important. This BMS also logs the voltages and currents, it is nice to see the history when trying to debug the issues I had.HughF said:One of the benefits of the ANT+/BTLE project that Casainho is working on would be the ability to move the %SOC tracking to a SmartBMS and read that value over the Bluetooth connection into the NRF PCB... Full %SOC tracking would then be possible on charge and discharge.
Theoretically the ANT+/BLE could connect to this cheap and popular BMS and have this information, SOC, disable the battery power, etc, and show to user on the display or mobile phone.
The smart BMS doesn't have a shunt? Lame...izeman said:I'm not sure how using the BMS' information to determine SOC would help. Eg the BT SmartBMS that I have installed on most of my batteries (and the one that's refered here too) as well isn't very good at SOC determination either. YOU have to enter cell voltage values for 100%, 80%,60%,40%, 20% and 0%. Those are then used to build the graph you see on the main page.casainho said:I use the Bluetooth SmartBMS on some of my bicycles and sometimes it is really important to check how is the voltage of each cells. I had issues before with my battery pack or TSDZ2 and looking at that information is important. This BMS also logs the voltages and currents, it is nice to see the history when trying to debug the issues I had.HughF said:One of the benefits of the ANT+/BTLE project that Casainho is working on would be the ability to move the %SOC tracking to a SmartBMS and read that value over the Bluetooth connection into the NRF PCB... Full %SOC tracking would then be possible on charge and discharge.
Theoretically the ANT+/BLE could connect to this cheap and popular BMS and have this information, SOC, disable the battery power, etc, and show to user on the display or mobile phone.
Something like this could easily be setup in the firmware as well. 6 user defined values (full, 80,60,40,20, empty) and that's it. All other values are interpolated. Add the great Wh gauge and you have a super nice SOC meter.
I use the app to check for individual cell (string) level and maybe to disable the battery completely or do a manual balance if needed.
Sure it has. For charge and for discharge. But the TSDZ2 can measure current as well.HughF said:The smart BMS doesn't have a shunt? Lame...
Battery BMS as the best knowledge of battery SOC because it measures both charging and discharging power, and charging cycles init and stop.izeman said:Sure it has. For charge and for discharge. But the TSDZ2 can measure current as well.HughF said:The smart BMS doesn't have a shunt? Lame...
My point was, that the BMS has no better knowledge of SOC than the TSDZ2 can have (it knows SOC per cell, but we don't need that info for a general SOC-bar-meter)
The BMS has a much better idea of the SOC, because the charger connects to the BMS. So for people who hover their SOC between a certain percentage window, the BMS will always give a better indication of SOC.izeman said:Sure it has. For charge and for discharge. But the TSDZ2 can measure current as well.HughF said:The smart BMS doesn't have a shunt? Lame...
My point was, that the BMS has no better knowledge of SOC than the TSDZ2 can have (it knows SOC per cell, but we don't need that info for a general SOC-bar-meter)
Would you let me/us know where you got it from? A year ago I fitted one and it worked fine until I came back from a holiday and it had drained a 600whr battery flat. Seems that it kept looking for a blue tooth signal!HughF said:I am about to build a new battery pack and will use the Bluetooth smart bms.
In theory you are 100% correct. But I highly doubt that this is how the smartbms we are talking about does it. If it really did coulomb counting in and out there were no need to enter voltage values for 0-100%. The BMS knew it way better, and would act like casinho's method: reset the counter at eg 4.2V per cell and call that a full battery. Then start deducting Wh/Ah from this value.HughF said:The BMS has a much better idea of the SOC, because the charger connects to the BMS. So for people who hover their SOC between a certain percentage window, the BMS will always give a better indication of SOC.
The TSDZ2 knows nothing of the aH going back into the battery so it cannot account for them and increase it's coulomb counter back towards 100%. It can only count discharge aH and measure battery voltage. That might be fine for a LiMnCo or similar chemistry pack where you could back calculate SOC based on battery voltage, but is useless for LiFePo4 users who have a really flat discharge curve.
If this is indeed how the so-called SmartBMS does it's SOC calculations then they are not so smart after all. I am used to batrium, and an outback FlexnetDC, both measuring all power in and out of their respective shunts, so I just assumed the SmartBMS did the same.izeman said:In theory you are 100% correct. But I highly doubt that this is how the smartbms we are talking about does it. If it really did coulomb counting in and out there were no need to enter voltage values for 0-100%. The BMS knew it way better, and would act like casinho's method: reset the counter at eg 4.2V per cell and call that a full battery. Then start deducting Wh/Ah from this value.HughF said:The BMS has a much better idea of the SOC, because the charger connects to the BMS. So for people who hover their SOC between a certain percentage window, the BMS will always give a better indication of SOC.
The TSDZ2 knows nothing of the aH going back into the battery so it cannot account for them and increase it's coulomb counter back towards 100%. It can only count discharge aH and measure battery voltage. That might be fine for a LiMnCo or similar chemistry pack where you could back calculate SOC based on battery voltage, but is useless for LiFePo4 users who have a really flat discharge curve.
But this, as mentioned, is highly questionable.
That's why i still doubt that we can expect any better results from an ANT/BT connection to the BMS, but just replicate the SOC algorithm like the cheap BMS does it.
This of course are just my thoughts and observation, I haven't seen and source code of the BMS' firmware.
Of course LiFePo4 is another chapter - SOC there is always a pita judging by voltage
I don't have it in my hand yet, but it will be the cheapest, nastiest deal I can get from AliExpressJames Broadhurst said:Would you let me/us know where you got it from? A year ago I fitted one and it worked fine until I came back from a holiday and it had drained a 600whr battery flat. Seems that it kept looking for a blue tooth signal!HughF said:I am about to build a new battery pack and will use the Bluetooth smart bms.
I will do some testing so we KNOW and don't have to ASSUME anymoreHughF said:If this is indeed how the so-called SmartBMS does it's SOC calculations then they are not so smart after all. I am used to batrium, and an outback FlexnetDC, both measuring all power in and out of their respective shunts, so I just assumed the SmartBMS did the same.
Hmmm.... back to voltage based SOC then
john61ct said:State of Charge tracking is a huge challenge to get accurate, requires all sorts of data kept up to date by the owner, not least changing Ah capacity, but also CEF and Peukert coefficient.
Dedicated instruments costing hundreds have a hard time remaining even within 6-10% of actual SoC.
I doubt done properly by most BMS
cavi said:For the best hill start performance I would setup as the following:
Motor current control = torque
Assist w/o pedal = enable
Startup BOOST = disable
Startup BOOST duration = 5
Startup BOOST fade = 6.5
Motor current ramp = 10a (maximum)
Calibrate your torque sensor then enable calibrations
Motor current max = 20a
Soo I installed this programming, and I have to say it feels way way better. i think one could say it feels close to a Levo. Mind you it is still way louder than a levo, but my wallet is still stuffed.....
Now, can anyone tell me more about the throttle? I have the temp sensor turned off and turned to throttle, but the throttle is very sluggish, if I am climbing a hill and I push it it is useless it takes forever to ramp up. Do I have to turn on the virtual tharottle in the street mode(which I have turned off)?
andyme said:Yesterday i suddenly encountered a short, steep uphill road in the dark. When I realised that the gear would not be sufficient, I quickly pushed the assistance from 8 to 13 while already climbing. I would have expected to get more support, but actually I did not feel this. I hardly made it up to the top of the road and my impression was the motor did not want to react to the increased assistance level, I the contrary, it hardly did anything, was my feeling. I was surprised about this behaviour, I think in the past that would have worked this way...?
Later I had a somewhat similar situation but I was able to shift down and get more cadence and the support of the motor was there again.
Is it possible that the motor has problems to support under pressure with low cadence?
I am using torque mode.
vshitikov said:andyme said:Yesterday i suddenly encountered a short, steep uphill road in the dark. When I realised that the gear would not be sufficient, I quickly pushed the assistance from 8 to 13 while already climbing. I would have expected to get more support, but actually I did not feel this. I hardly made it up to the top of the road and my impression was the motor did not want to react to the increased assistance level, I the contrary, it hardly did anything, was my feeling. I was surprised about this behaviour, I think in the past that would have worked this way...?
Later I had a somewhat similar situation but I was able to shift down and get more cadence and the support of the motor was there again.
Is it possible that the motor has problems to support under pressure with low cadence?
I am using torque mode.
Well, if you reached your maximum current already - the motor won't give you more than you already getting. I reach my 16amps pretty quickly on climbs.
I also think that current implementation of the motor control does not give full torque at 0RPM (i'm using a version 0.8 still) But I did't have time to run tests to prouve that.
Anyways I always downshift on the hills, that's why we got the midle drive, otherwise I would install a cheaper and more reliable direct drive. We wouldn't want to climb a hill on a 5th gear with a car.
I'm glad that the settings worked well for you. I'm sorry that I cannot help with the throttle issue, I do not have a throttle on my bike.cavi said:For the best hill start performance I would setup as the following:
Motor current control = torque
Assist w/o pedal = enable
Startup BOOST = disable
Startup BOOST duration = 5
Startup BOOST fade = 6.5
Motor current ramp = 10a (maximum)
Calibrate your torque sensor then enable calibrations
Motor current max = 20a
Soo I installed this programming, and I have to say it feels way way better. i think one could say it feels close to a Levo. Mind you it is still way louder than a levo, but my wallet is still stuffed.....
Now, can anyone tell me more about the throttle? I have the temp sensor turned off and turned to throttle, but the throttle is very sluggish, if I am climbing a hill and I push it it is useless it takes forever to ramp up. Do I have to turn on the virtual tharottle in the street mode(which I have turned off)?