TSDZ2 mid drive with 860C, 850C or SW102 displays only -- Flexible OpenSource firmware (Casainho code only)

[Alphonse]

Ref. Distance traveled displayed.

My system (860C with OSF V1.0.0) is displaying distance traveled with a 4% error. It is 4% low against the benchmark of a new Garmin 830. I've made several runs and the distance has been consistently low.

I measured the rear wheel circumference by rolling the rear wheel on pavement three revolutions and derived the circumference. So the wheel circumference should be spot on as entered into the Wheel settings.

Obviously one solution is to increase the setting for wheel circumference but wanted to explore the error here first.

Are others getting a distance traveled error?

 

[Axl Rose]

I guess your screen will be wired directly like the 6 pin plug on the right? and that pinout will help you work out the tx/rx GND and bat+ pins you need to program it.

Thanks for the pinout. Yes, my display is wired directly with the 6 pin plug.
But now as I know the pinout, I will do it similar to the speed sensor flash and connect it directly.
Will keep you updated.

 

[perryscope]

Hello, I'm having a bit of a trouble flashing 860C display. First I tried to do it with cheap PL2303 UART adapters I had, but couldn't get the serial transmission working properly. Then I switched to Arduino Uno board as FTDI adapter, and now I get both RX and TX but nothing seems to be happening in the display.

The TX and RX counts are both increasing after pressing update, and both serial led's are blinking on the Arduino, but the display doesn't seem to respond to serial data, and APT Burn Tools is reporting 'waiting' repeatedly. Pressing power button shortly doesn't do anything. The display is turned off during the update as instructed. If I stop the update and turn on the display, the TX led starts blinking on the Arduino. Inverting TX and RX wires results RX staying at 0.

Here's the display hw information
860C V160 AKSM1.0
V5.2 202004120109

Any ideas, anyone?

-Niila

Does the screen also have battery power on the P+ pin? and gnd to the battery also? Without power it will not be booted up and cannot be flashed.

 

[niila]

Hello, I'm having a bit of a trouble flashing 860C display. First I tried to do it with cheap PL2303 UART adapters I had, but couldn't get the serial transmission working properly. Then I switched to Arduino Uno board as FTDI adapter, and now I get both RX and TX but nothing seems to be happening in the display.

The TX and RX counts are both increasing after pressing update, and both serial led's are blinking on the Arduino, but the display doesn't seem to respond to serial data, and APT Burn Tools is reporting 'waiting' repeatedly. Pressing power button shortly doesn't do anything. The display is turned off during the update as instructed. If I stop the update and turn on the display, the TX led starts blinking on the Arduino. Inverting TX and RX wires results RX staying at 0.

Here's the display hw information
860C V160 AKSM1.0
V5.2 202004120109

Any ideas, anyone?

-Niila

Does the screen also have battery power on the P+ pin? and gnd to the battery also? Without power it will not be booted up and cannot be flashed.

Thank you for the reply. Yes the display is powered by a 5V->30V step up module, and can be turned on by pressing the power button for a second.

The display is wired like this.

When turned on, the the TX led starts blinking, and the factory firmware responds to buttons, so it's not bricked.It just doesn't initiate the upgrade process for some reason.
Any idea what should be the correct Baud rate and other connection parameters for the display?

EDIT: I finally got the update going, not sure what changed, I kept switching TX and RX wires and pressing buttons, what a relief.

 

[gatorsean]

You found and fixed the bug in the boost logic?

I read the code but I don't understand what could be wrong for now. I don't have enough time currently, maybe next two weeks I'll can investigate more as I'll be in holiday (but without testing as I won't have my bike with me).

I suggested a couple pages back that there is a problem with the way ui16_target_current was being used and set. This could explain problems with throttle control, boost, and other functions using this variable.

I am considering giving up on this project lately as it seems to be severely limited by the motor capability. For my applications, I find it underpowered, and too easy to overheat. Nearly every ride, I find myself wishing it was just a BBSHD.

I really don't think it's worth the time or money to try and improve cooling on such a poor design.

No heat issues here, no cooling mods, no temp sensor, everything maxed out. Done 1000km over lockdown with zero issues. Your application must involve hauling some serious weight.

Your experience is not typical. I have lots of hills and like riding at high speed for 10 miles or more at a time. This motor just cannot cut it due to poor design. I read here how other people are modding to add a fan or oil cooling and all sorts of crazy ideas to avoid heat problems. All of this to compensate for the poor design and you still don't get any real start up torque or assistance.

I'm not the only one with these issues. This posting is FILLED with people having the exact same problems and I want to point out it's not the firmware, but the hardware that is the limiting factor of the project.

 

[gatorsean]

I am considering giving up on this project lately as it seems to be severely limited by the motor capability. For my applications, I find it underpowered, and too easy to overheat. Nearly every ride, I find myself wishing it was just a BBSHD.

I really don't think it's worth the time or money to try and improve cooling on such a poor design.

Haha, yes perhaps you should have bought a BBSHD. I ride both for different reasons. I only run the TSDZ2 for short bursts above 500 watts for short hills or for a burst of speed in traffic. Those of us that ride and love the TSDZ2 tend to like the lighter weight, the torque sensing, and aren't out for maximum speed. We still want to get some exercise cycling while making the hills easier and going a little faster. The TSDZ2 is pretty sweet for that and a joy to ride.

But when I want to ride fast at 30+ MPH or tackle long steep hills mountain biking, I take the 5 lb heavier BBSHD. It's a beast and I Iove it too.

I am pointing out to others that may be interested - there are other options out there if you want a more reliable and enjoyable experience without all of the hassle. I have had almost every after market kit for ebike conversion on the planet and the BBSHD is still the best. Don't get me wrong, the open source firmware is cool and interesting, but as long as the TSDZ2 hardware is so shitty, it will just be a novelty.

 

[gatorsean]

I am considering giving up on this project lately as it seems to be severely limited by the motor capability. For my applications, I find it underpowered, and too easy to overheat. Nearly every ride, I find myself wishing it was just a BBSHD.

I really don't think it's worth the time or money to try and improve cooling on such a poor design.

Naturally it depends on how and where you ride you're bike. I've been surprised how little the TSDZ2 heats on my second project, a full-suspension semi-fat bike. I use a 36V motor with 52V battery, and only simple cooling mods.

Here in the north the ambient temperature on warmest days is around 30C, and even those days I haven't seen the motor temp to rise much above 50C riding on difficult trails with near maximum power. I even tried to use the virtual throttle on roads for a while to use the full power and couldn't get the temp to rise significantly. I also tested the sensor accuracy before installing. On the trails around here are no long steep ascents so perhaps those would eventually cause overheating.

Someone else here mentioned similar experience with the 36V motor and 52V battery, so that might be the major solution for overheating. Personally I feel that the build quality and loose mechanical tolerances are the biggest drawback of this motor.

I use a 52V battery and most terrain I ride is hilly. I'm lucky to get 30-40 minutes of ride time before overheating at medium assist levels.

 

[mctubster]

I am pointing out to others that may be interested - there are other options out there if you want a more reliable and enjoyable experience without all of the hassle. I have had almost every after market kit for ebike conversion on the planet and the BBSHD is still the best. Don't get me wrong, the open source firmware is cool and interesting, but as long as the TSDZ2 hardware is so shitty, it will just be a novelty.

Each to their own, I moved from a Bafang BBS to the TSDZ2 because I wanted something that felt like riding a bike, rather than a ped-elec. 4500KM on the TSDZ2 and still going strong here on a 45KG cargo bike.

 

[pagaille]

My TSDZ2 is dead . I opened a separate thread, maybe you could help me diagnosing why my motor suddenly doesn't work anymore after adding a temperature sensor ? (Display oddly shows : Error 3 : Torque Fault)

I fixed it. See my howto if you ever need to repair you motor inner hall sensor. --> https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=107538&p=1574314#p1575968

 

[Waynemarlow]

I use a 52V battery and most terrain I ride is hilly. I'm lucky to get 30-40 minutes of ride time before overheating at medium assist levels.

I'm not sure why you are bothering to be part of this thread, even you would have to admit to compare a Bafaung HD to a TSDZ2 is like comparing a mini to V8 muscle car.

If you want to go fast then you are going to need 1000W plus and with a TSDZ2 it was never designed for that, so why complain ?

 

[jeff.page.rides]

I use a 52V battery and most terrain I ride is hilly. I'm lucky to get 30-40 minutes of ride time before overheating at medium assist levels.

I'm not sure why you are bothering to be part of this thread, even you would have to admit to compare a Bafaung HD to a TSDZ2 is like comparing a mini to V8 muscle car.

If you want to go fast then you are going to need 1000W plus and with a TSDZ2 it was never designed for that, so why complain ?

WELL SAID, and I agree!

 

[hefest]

finally did the torque sensor calibration.
Looks like range of ADC values is narrow.



Not sure what to think. It looks to me like there is less torque on lower RPM but delivery is smoother. I find myself riding in higher assistance levels than before calibration.

 

[gatorsean]

I use a 52V battery and most terrain I ride is hilly. I'm lucky to get 30-40 minutes of ride time before overheating at medium assist levels.

I'm not sure why you are bothering to be part of this thread, even you would have to admit to compare a Bafaung HD to a TSDZ2 is like comparing a mini to V8 muscle car.

If you want to go fast then you are going to need 1000W plus and with a TSDZ2 it was never designed for that, so why complain ?

I bother to be a part of this thread because I have followed since the beginning. I have watched, read, built, contributed, and after all of this time and money I have invested, there are no regrets, but there is certainly advice to anyone considering this hardware for their projects. My advice is look elsewhere. Custom firmware was an incredibly interesting and ultimately great project and it absolutely did improve the usability of the TSDZ2. Ultimately the result was akin to polishing a turd. No amount of great software can make up for poorly designed hardware.

Unfortunately it seems you have missed the message. My point is not about power at all. It is much more focused on build quality, reliability, and ease of operation. Broken sensors, overheating, and other failures are very common. If like me, you rely on your bike for both commuting and leisure, you want something you can count on and that doesn't need attention every 45 minutes or constant setting tweaking to get acceptable performance . The comparison is not at all about V8 vs a mini, it is instead a comparison of a Yugo vs a Toyota.

 

[hosekk]

Hello, I'm happy user TSDZ2 with opensource firmware.
I have just one problem.
The motor does not stop immediately when I stop pedaling, but after 0,5 - 1 sec.
There was no problem with the original software.

Do You have any idea where is the problem?
I tried many settings but nothing helps.

Display: 860C
firmware: 1.0.0
cadence fast stop mode: enable (no matter also the same when is disable)
(I have 2 bikes with this engine and software, and the same problem is with both)


Thanks for help

I have been working on this problem as well. A couple of questions for you on your settings:

Under "Assist Level" - are you using the default 20 assist levels? If so does the problem occur at all levels or above a certain level?

Under "Motor Control" - are you using Torque mode? Same screen, what maximum current are you using?

I'm sorry to answer so late. I have enabled 20 assist levels, but I never used higher than 12. Normaly I'm using 7 - 12. I will check tomorrow if this problem also occurs at lower levels.

other setup:
max power - 850W
max current - 18A
current ramp - 5
motor control - torque (I also changed to power, and the problem persisted). To change gear I have to practically stop pedaling for about a second (maybe half)

 

[Alphonse]

Hello, I'm happy user TSDZ2 with opensource firmware.
I have just one problem.
The motor does not stop immediately when I stop pedaling, but after 0,5 - 1 sec.
There was no problem with the original software.

Do You have any idea where is the problem?
I tried many settings but nothing helps.

Display: 860C
firmware: 1.0.0
cadence fast stop mode: enable (no matter also the same when is disable)
(I have 2 bikes with this engine and software, and the same problem is with both)


Thanks for help

I have been working on this problem as well. A couple of questions for you on your settings:

Under "Assist Level" - are you using the default 20 assist levels? If so does the problem occur at all levels or above a certain level?

Under "Motor Control" - are you using Torque mode? Same screen, what maximum current are you using?

I'm sorry to answer so late. I have enabled 20 assist levels, but I never used higher than 12. Normaly I'm using 7 - 12. I will check tomorrow if this problem also occurs at lower levels.

other setup:
max power - 850W
max current - 18A
current ramp - 5
motor control - torque (I also changed to power, and the problem persisted). To change gear I have to practically stop pedaling for about a second (maybe half)

Okay, look forward to hearing back from you. I understand what you are experiencing since I had the same problem. See what you get with assist levels 9 and below. Also if you don't mind tell me what assist level factors you are using. Are they the same as these?

1 - 0.007
2 - 0.009
3 - 0.012
4 - 0.016
5 - 0.021
6 - 0.028
7 - 0.037
8 - 0.049
9 - 0.065
10 - 0.087
11 - 0.115
12 - 0.153
13 - 0.204
14 - 0.271
15 - 0.36
16 - 0.479
17 - 0.637
18 - 0.848
19 - 1.128
20 - 1.5

 

[casainho]

Unfortunately it seems you have missed the message. My point is not about power at all. It is much more focused on build quality, reliability, and ease of operation. Broken sensors, overheating, and other failures are very common. If like me, you rely on your bike for both commuting and leisure, you want something you can count on and that doesn't need attention every 45 min

utes or constant setting tweaking to get acceptable performance.

I trust TSDZ2 on my ebikes, I use the same ebike daily on the city as also for long travels. Here as example the travel of yesterday, me and my wife, we rode to mountains far from home in total of 93 kms, +1280. Two ebikes with TSDZ2, no fails.

I know what are the common problems on and I did wrote the TSDZ2 FAQ with the common issues, possible causes and repair/solutions -- everyone should look at it before decide to use or not the TSDZ2.

 

[hetm4n]

Hi. I uploaded the latest 1.0.0 to 2 bikes, but the 850C and Sw102 display in the battery menu do not remember the maximum current setting. I set it to 18A, after turning it off, it reappears at 16. Apparently it has been corrected, somewhere in the previous posts I read about it.

 

[hefest]

I am considering giving up on this project lately as it seems to be severely limited by the motor capability. For my applications, I find it underpowered, and too easy to overheat. Nearly every ride, I find myself wishing it was just a BBSHD.

I really don't think it's worth the time or money to try and improve cooling on such a poor design.

Naturally it depends on how and where you ride you're bike. I've been surprised how little the TSDZ2 heats on my second project, a full-suspension semi-fat bike. I use a 36V motor with 52V battery, and only simple cooling mods.

Here in the north the ambient temperature on warmest days is around 30C, and even those days I haven't seen the motor temp to rise much above 50C riding on difficult trails with near maximum power. I even tried to use the virtual throttle on roads for a while to use the full power and couldn't get the temp to rise significantly. I also tested the sensor accuracy before installing. On the trails around here are no long steep ascents so perhaps those would eventually cause overheating.

Someone else here mentioned similar experience with the 36V motor and 52V battery, so that might be the major solution for overheating. Personally I feel that the build quality and loose mechanical tolerances are the biggest drawback of this motor.

I use a 52V battery and most terrain I ride is hilly. I'm lucky to get 30-40 minutes of ride time before overheating at medium assist levels.

Overheating is obviously your choice. If you are not pushing it above 500w on constant runs should be fine. We can only conclude that you are pushing it to 600-800w on long uphills and than complain about overheating.
This is not Bosch or Yamaha, you can get those if you like, that is if you are willing to shell out 2.000eur+ and 500eur for each new battery.
This is also not bafang bbs02 or bbshd because it does have torque sensor.

 

[Swannking]

Hello, I'm happy user TSDZ2 with opensource firmware.
I have just one problem.
The motor does not stop immediately when I stop pedaling, but after 0,5 - 1 sec.
There was no problem with the original software.

Do You have any idea where is the problem?
I tried many settings but nothing helps.

Display: 860C
firmware: 1.0.0
cadence fast stop mode: enable (no matter also the same when is disable)
(I have 2 bikes with this engine and software, and the same problem is with both)

Thanks for help

I noticed the same with 2 motors I installed on the recumbent trikes. I thought it was by design. But I do like the original firmware when I stopped pedaling, the motor stopped immediately.

 

[jbalat]

I use a 52V battery and most terrain I ride is hilly. I'm lucky to get 30-40 minutes of ride time before overheating at medium assist levels.

I have been riding my 36v tsdz2 to work every day, I am sure that I have done well over 15,000kms by now and then only issues were the blue gear and sprag clutch which were replaced very early on.. The only issues I get now occasionally is the motor coming loose which just needs to be retightened again.

Anyway my average commute power is between 200 and 230w. Occasionally when I ride home against a headwind I will average at 300w. Up hills I will do 650w but they are only a few minutes long. I have only reached 75 degrees a couple of times on very hot days.

My friend rides with a 48v motor and his is always 5 to 10 degrees cooler than mine, he has never hit 75 degrees on his rides.

This summarises my assist level which is more than adequate for me as compared to riding to work on a normal bike which was very tiresome when I did it every day.

I am wondering what power levels you are riding at ? Do you enjoy torque sensing or are you just after speed ? My previous bike was a 4200w hub powered bike similar to a stealth bomber, while it was fun to ride the novelty wore off and I am much happier riding torque assist even if it means that I need to put in some effort. But everyone is different so maybe a big hub motor would better suit your style of riding ?

 

[Alphonse]

Hello, I'm happy user TSDZ2 with opensource firmware.
I have just one problem.
The motor does not stop immediately when I stop pedaling, but after 0,5 - 1 sec.
There was no problem with the original software.

Do You have any idea where is the problem?
I tried many settings but nothing helps.

Display: 860C
firmware: 1.0.0
cadence fast stop mode: enable (no matter also the same when is disable)
(I have 2 bikes with this engine and software, and the same problem is with both)

Thanks for help

I noticed the same with 2 motors I installed on the recumbent trikes. I thought it was by design. But I do like the original firmware when I stopped pedaling, the motor stopped immediately.

I believe this is an outcome of the "Assist Level Factors" that are too high in the settings under the "Assist Level" screen for configurations. I have asked a couple of other folks who have posted here recently with this issue to share those factors but haven't gotten feedback yet.

Meanwhile I believe these assist level factors are far too high for the second half of the assist levels and are causing what I will call the "overrun" we are experiencing.

Are you using the default values for these factors? Take a look above in this thread and you will see the values that I posted and asked two folks if this was what they are using. I would appreciate some feedback on this and once in hand, I will post a graphic of what I think is happening.

 

[hosekk]

Hello, I'm happy user TSDZ2 with opensource firmware.
I have just one problem.
The motor does not stop immediately when I stop pedaling, but after 0,5 - 1 sec.
There was no problem with the original software.

Do You have any idea where is the problem?
I tried many settings but nothing helps.

Display: 860C
firmware: 1.0.0
cadence fast stop mode: enable (no matter also the same when is disable)
(I have 2 bikes with this engine and software, and the same problem is with both)


Thanks for help

I have been working on this problem as well. A couple of questions for you on your settings:

Under "Assist Level" - are you using the default 20 assist levels? If so does the problem occur at all levels or above a certain level?

Under "Motor Control" - are you using Torque mode? Same screen, what maximum current are you using?

I'm sorry to answer so late. I have enabled 20 assist levels, but I never used higher than 12. Normaly I'm using 7 - 12. I will check tomorrow if this problem also occurs at lower levels.

other setup:
max power - 850W
max current - 18A
current ramp - 5
motor control - torque (I also changed to power, and the problem persisted). To change gear I have to practically stop pedaling for about a second (maybe half)

Okay, look forward to hearing back from you. I understand what you are experiencing since I had the same problem. See what you get with assist levels 9 and below. Also if you don't mind tell me what assist level factors you are using. Are they the same as these?

1 - 0.007
2 - 0.009
3 - 0.012
4 - 0.016
5 - 0.021
6 - 0.028
7 - 0.037
8 - 0.049
9 - 0.065
10 - 0.087
11 - 0.115
12 - 0.153
13 - 0.204
14 - 0.271
15 - 0.36
16 - 0.479
17 - 0.637
18 - 0.848
19 - 1.128
20 - 1.5

I have only one difference in my settings:
1 - 0.005
Other are the same

 

[Mr.Flibble]

Mr.Flibble, are you using the default of 20 assist levels?
Yes my settings are standard, ie: default.
I have not changed any settings other than battery details and units.

 

[Mr.Flibble]

[/quote]
Meanwhile I believe these assist level factors are far too high for the second half of the assist levels and are causing what I will call the "overrun" we are experiencing.
[/quote]

But I get over run in the bottom half too....
It seems to be based on high cadance and the length of time you are spinning.
If I spin down a slope for any length of time in low power, I will get over run.

I believe it is more noticeable in high power, as it's easier to spin with the extra power.

 

[vass]

Unfortunately it seems you have missed the message. My point is not about power at all. It is much more focused on build quality, reliability, and ease of operation. Broken sensors, overheating, and other failures are very common. If like me, you rely on your bike for both commuting and leisure, you want something you can count on and that doesn't need attention every 45 min

utes or constant setting tweaking to get acceptable performance.

I trust TSDZ2 on my ebikes, I use the same ebike daily on the city as also for long travels. Here as example the travel of yesterday, me and my wife, we rode to mountains far from home in total of 93 kms, +1280. Two ebikes with TSDZ2, no fails.

I know what are the common problems on and I did wrote the TSDZ2 FAQ with the common issues, possible causes and repair/solutions -- everyone should look at it before decide to use or not the TSDZ2.

In reality TS should pay casainho and some others for their work and make the osf firmware + heat sensor + heatpads mods a OEM feature.
They make "nice" stock motor into a DAMN nice motor, i am new to this but i have now aroung 300km and some of them of hard offroad (i have bought a full suspension now because my hardtail is killing my back on single tracks and jumps) trashing the engine and i still have to break anything, i have also only once or twice see it pass the 60º temperature (heatpads mods rules ).
So if you are not afraid to openup stuff and do a little soldering its a damn, good solution (i suck at both and i could do it so i guess anyone can )